Home Forums Reloading Varmint Rifles 6mm for P-Dogs

Co-worker and I are heading to South Dakota in late May for some prairie dogging. I'm happy with the rifles (calibers, loads, and rifle configurations) that I have and will take.

My co-worker on the other hand has it in his mind that he wants to take a 6mm/.243 for windier days and longer shots in the wind. That said, he does not yet have a 6mm/.243 and is currently chasing a barrel to build a rifle. Between us, we have spare 700 S/A and L/A actions and stocks. He's narrowed his choices to the .243 Win, .243 AI, 6mm Rem (possibly 6mm AI), and 240 Wby. He reloads so that's not an issue and best I can tell he's considering the 70-85(87) grain bullets (Blitz, V-Max, BTs) out of whatever he ends up with.

What recommendation(s) would those of you with P-dogging and 6mm/.243 experience suggest? Knowing my co-worker, whatever he build will be purpose built, strictly for P-dogging - no deer, antelope, etc.

I've not shot prarie dogs with my .243's but I've shot a bunch of sage rats and California ground squirrels. I'd go .243AI on a short action and 6-06 if I was building on a long action. The .243AI dupes a 6mm Rem and does it with easier to obtain brass.

The 87 Vmax does very well in the wind. Had them dumping basketball sized rocks at 808 and 940 yards yesterday in 20 mph winds. You don't get the impressive kills like you do with the higher velocity .22 stuff. Instead, it's a pretty healthy thump on the bigger valley squirrels. They are a little bit smaller than prairie dogs, but are huge compared to the sage rats.

Whichever way he decides to go will be fun. Hope you guys get into them thick.

For prairie doggin hands down my favorite 6mm is the 6BR. top accuracy plus you can shoot more rounds before before barrel heat becomes an issue, barrel life is also much better than the big 6's.

If you just have to go big then I prefer the 6mmAI or 6-284 with a 1-8" twist barrel for 95gr to 107gr VLD type bullets for the long shots.

Is he taking a smaller caliber for most shooting?

204 Ruger and 22-250 for the majority of shooting.

For PD I'd stay away from the barrel heat/wear/blast of an overbore like 6x57 or bigger.

Even a 243 is gonna be a bit much for that kind of volume.

Personally I'd run a 6-250 or 6BR for mild report, increased barrel life, and in the former ease of feeding.

I have a medium-weight 6-250 that I LOVE; just neck up 22-250 cases and rock. Can shoot that thing an aweful lot, and the report is significantly less than from a .243.

I've shot plenty of prairie dogs with a .243 (and much larger rounds) in the past, but don't used it much anymore, partly because even with a very accurate rifle the percentage of hits goes way down much past 300 yards, in typical conditions. Most of the prairie dogging I do anymore is on private land, where I get access because the owner wants the PD's reduced, not educated.

But if he really thinks a .243 will provide an advantage, I'd advise the AI. It tends to cut down on throat erosion a little due to the steeper shoulder angle concentrating the jet of hot gas more inside the neck, rather than out in front of the case mouth, and also vastly reduces the need for case trimming. Trimming a few hundred cases turns into a real PITA, real quickly, even with power trimmers!

Based on the conversation I had with my co-worker earlier this AM, I think he's leaning hard toward the 243AI. He likes the idea of the longer neck on 6mm Rem. However, he said he did a lot of searching last night and found that 6mm Rem brass is in somewhat short supply. That said and his words, "the 243 AI dupes the 6mm Rem and brass is a whole lot more plentiful."

The 6mm Rem AI in a long barrel produces some very impressive velocity (mine pushed 70gr @ 3900+fps), but it should be done on a long action if you want to use the heavier bullets.

Personally I don't feel the 243 gains enough in the AI version to be worth the hassle of fireforming and the extra cost of the dies, but it sure looks cool.

The 6mm AI loaded with a 70gr TNT:

If you're going to shoot pdogs on the Rosebud Reservation, I guarantee that it will be windy for some portion of your trip. I have driven there to shoot and, upon arrival, found that the wind was blowing so hard that it wasn't worth burning powder. Spent the night in either Valentine, NE, or White River, SD, and drove home without squeezing a single trigger. If you're going to eat in restaurants, the options in Valentine are to be recommended over White River every time.

6 Dasher with 105 Amax....Varget, R-15, H-4895.

6BR deserves a look, but a Dasher adds 150 fps, and keeps the attributes of the parent case, plus only burns 33 grains of powder.

Heart set on a 6mm for windy or LR shots ?

Think quick twist 6BR..Dasher..or 6XC (6mm/250)

You'll get tired real fast pulling the trigger on the 243AI

Muzzle blast...heat...recoil..cost per rd are not your friends

The 20's are where its at in the p/dog fields.....

http://www.accurateshooter.com/cartridge-guides/6mmbrimproved/

http://www.accurateshooter.com/cartridge-guides/6xc/

http://www.accurateshooter.com/cartridge-guides/20caliber/

May of this year may be a bit optimistic to get a rifle built. I guarantee that you could buy an already made rifle in either 243 or 6mm Remington and shoot 75 grain bullets with great success. I would also look at a stock Sako heavy barrel in 243 and shoot better than all the paper and internet shooters will admit...

Yondering,

The "hassle of fire-forming"? All that needs to be done is load up a few hundred rounds of ammo in standard .243 cases and go prairie dog shooting. Hassle over with, including having to trim 'em.

In your best old world German . . . "Ve haav our vays".

In 6mm I started with a Sako L-461 Benchrest single shot rifle in 6mm PPC. A bit anemic but very accurate. Then came the California lead bullet ban, which revealed the Sako's 1:14" twist too slow to stabilize Barnes 62 grain Varmint Grenade, the only lead free available at the time.

Next I put a Shilen 1:10" twist 6mm PPC barrel on a Savage Precision Target Action. It too proved too slow for the long Varmint Grenade or heavier lead core bullets. Completely missed the target and when it hit, the bullets printed completely sideways.

So I tried a Brux 26" 6mm barrel with a 1:8" twist chambered for the 243 WSSM, a short fat case reminiscent of the PPC. With 49.5 grains of Ramshot Hunter and the Varmint Grenade at around 3,570 fps the smallest group it shot ran 10 shots into a 0.187" group at 100 yards. It is devastating on Eastern Oregon sage rats - they literally vanish, leaving rototilled soil beneath where they were and a short tunnel mowed into the alfalfa behind them. At 300 yards, in a quartering wind gusting up to 15 mph, even a low miss that landed beneath them blew them apart from the disintegration of the Varmint Grenade and fragments of small stones and sand. On Central California ground squirrels they died from close misses on oak bark that acted like a circular saw. The Varmint Grenade was doing it's job nicely. Problem being that only Winchester makes the brass on a seasonal basis, so I bought all I could find.

Now I am waiting for a new Brux 6mm barrel in 6mm PPC with a 1:8" twist to use up my supply of brass. It should do well with either the Varmint Grenade or Nosler 55 grain BT Lead Free offering.

I also am building another Savage with a 24" Krieger 6mm 1:8" twist barrel chambered for the 6mm BR Norma. This case has sufficient capacity to drive either bullet to somewhere around 3,500 to 3,700 fps, and is throated longer, or can be throated longer, to get the bullet seated out further. Good economical choice.

6mm Remington, another cartridge I played with back in the day is a good choice, and will fill the bill. Again, a 1:8" twist is best for a wider selection of bullets. Ditto the .243 Winchester.

Hint: The lead free Varmint Grenade's in .204", .223", and .243-6mm are by far the most accurate bullets I have shot. Same with the exquisite Nosler BT-Lead Free in the same calibers, and Hornady's little tiny 24 grain .204" NTX Boat Tail bullet. These bullets have very stable cores made from compressed powdered copper/tin that are a solid similar to stick chalk. They don't fly apart like lightly constructed lead core varmint bullets if driven too fast. I have shot the .204" 26 Grain Varmint Grenade at a measured 4,110 fps into a 10 shot 0.250" group from a 1:8.5" twist. When these hit a varmint the impact causes a visible shock wave propagating from the exploding rat/squirrel.

Brass for the 6mm Remington can be made from 7mm Mauser or .257 Roberts by simple necking down and trimming. I necked the 7mm Mauser down using a .257 Roberts trim die as an intermediate step to keep things more concentric, then F.L. sized in the 6mm Remington die. Some may want to turn or ream the necks, but this wasn't necessary in my Remington 700. http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/category/categoryId/731?

The .243 Winchester brass is a bit more plentiful, with Privi Partisan manufacturing it. http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/category/categoryId/650? I have found all Privi brass as good as any, using it in .223 Remington, .22-250 Remington, .308 Winchester, and .30-06 Springfield. The .22-250 Remington Privi brass forms easily in Hornady's Custom Shop .22-250 Ackley hydraulic forming die that preforms the body and shoulder without fireforming. These dies are made to match your chamber using two fired cases and/or the technical drawing of the chamber reamer used to cut your chamber. There is no headspace problem when first firing. Being completely loony I also had Hornady make up a matched die set with a custom F.L. die and standard seating die.

Have a great 6mm splatter fest.

WiFowler: The 6mm's defintely have their place in Prairie Dog towns - but they also have some draw backs.
Among the most noteworthy are dealing with their recoil and their barrel heat in potential high volume shooting situations.
I own and shoot lots of Varmint Rifles in various 6mm calibers including a custom 240 Weatherby, a custom 6mm Remington Ackley Improved, a 6mm Remington, several 243 Winchesters and some newer additions in 6mm Remington BR and 6mm PPC.
I prefer the "smaller" 6mm's anymore for Prairie Dogs and more often use my larger 6mm's for Rock Chucks and Coyotes where recoil and barrel heat don't disrupt as often.
Recoil in a Prairie Dog town from my 6mm Remington Ackley Improved, 6mm Remington, 240 Weatherby and my 243's simply makes it next to impossible to spot my own hits/misses.
If his heart is set on a 6mm on a Remington short action I would go with a "single shot" 700 in 6mm Remington Bench Rest or a 243 Winchester loaded to moderation with VLD type Varmint bullets.
Best of luck to you both on your Varmint Safari.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

I think that he understands the drawbacks of some the 6mm class of cartridges for P-Doggin. Especially those that he has his eye on. Keep in mind that his intention is not to use the 6mm class as the sole P-Dog vaporizor. He (and I) hope to make good use of the 204 Ruger and 22-250. The thought for the 6mm class cartridge is a cartridge that pushes a heavier projectile (70-87 gr) and can buck the wind over a longer range.
As for putting a 6mm class rifle together, both S/A and L/A actions are in-hand. Which gets built upon will depend on the cartridge chosen, though I would use the L/A regardless.

Been there and done that. You're right, it's not a big deal, but then, why go with the AI version in the first place?

Case capacity difference in the 243 is so minimal that it just doesn't seem worthwhile. Same for the 223 case.

Don't get me wrong, I like AI cartridges, but think they make a lot more sense when the parent cartridge has a lot of body taper, leaving more room for improvement. The 6mm Rem and 257 Rob are good examples of that.

I explained why AI'ing makes sense in my post: It has nothing to do with any tiny bit of extra velocity, but somewhat longer barrel life, and almost zero case trimming, both highly desirable in a prairie dog rifle.