I have a 7mm rem. I am wanting a good bullet for long range(500-1000 yard) practice along with mid to long range (200-600 yard) hunting capabilities on deer.
I know the accubonds are accurate and good for hunting, but I can get twice the a-maxes for the cost of the accubonds and they should be accurate and hold velocity at longer ranges.
I've dialed in the 168 matchkings but would like one bullet and load I can practice with for paper punching and using hunting, without costing too much.
In my experience, accubonds, matchking and gamekings, A-max's, and tsx's consistently give the best accuracy in the multiple calibers I've owned
If I were to go for bigger animals, I'd definately step it up to a tougher bullet.
The A-max has a much higher BC, but the gamkings would definitely still work for the hunting distances I specified. The amax would be better for long range target practice though. Just trying to have a bullet do double duty, but I might be expecting too much.
I'd not worry about an Amax on deer. I have seen them zook more than a few times in 6.5 and 7mm..but for deer size critters i wouldnt worry much, cept if meat/cape damage is a concern.I've never seen,and dont expect to see a deer walk off a good hit from an Amax
but,IME the good ol' hornady HPBT is a better game bullet than the Amax.
I prefer Scenars and Bergers for hunting, but there is a big price difference from the Hornady bullets.
Questions like this, is always like opening a can of worms. You may want to try the LRX. It may be the best of both worlds and what you are looking for IF you have enough twist to stabilize it:
Just trying to have a bullet do double duty, but I might be expecting too much.
You're not. I have absolutely no qualms about using the 162s (or the 6.5 140s) on deer at those distances. Used them out of my 7 WSM last year on a culling job. 40-42 deer over two days out to a hair over 680. Like Roscoe said they can be messy up close at those starting velocities, but I was still getting complete pass throughs on the long end of those ranges. Some of them stem to stern....
Just about any bullet out of a 7 RM will kill deer. One thing I like about the 7 RM is that it is usually easy to get multiple loads to shoot at our near the same point of impact, at least at 100 yds. I have had 140s, 160s and 175s all go into less than 1.5" groups from at least three different rifles. The others I never bothered to use anything other than various 160s.
Any of the sleeker hunting bullets will stay within +/- 2" of the target bullets of the same weight for a long ways off.
"When you disarm the people, you commence to offend them and show that you distrust them either through cowardice or lack of confidence, and both of these opinions generate hatred." Niccolo Machiavelli
maybe you can't, but I can. I'm not a long range junky and I've taken deer at 15 yards before. Out here in SD we have lots of open land and I want to try some longer shots once in a while instead of always stalking extremely close with no cover, low crawling for miles. I've regularly shot iron sights to 300m, so 600 with a scope and only taking the shot when the situation allows, should be no problem. I'm not a guy that just takes pop shots at deer. I always choose my shots wisely.
Big game Hunting bullets are for killing Big game.
Varmint bullets are for killing varmints.
Since the first 7x57 went to the range or into the hunting field, real sportsmen knew the difference.
More time spent with Bell, Keith, Hunter, O'Connor and less time watching American Sniper might result in a return to hunting.
While I love long range shooting at paper and gongs, I would never insult a wonderful big game animal by taking a shot where a hundred variables over which I have no control could cripple an animal. IME, once 300 yards is passed the "cripple curve" goes up like a F22 Raptor.
Short answer: no an AMax, Match King, Berger or other target bullets are not hunting bullets regardless of the hype. You must have a bullet that will break bones, make two holes and wreck the vitals in between. There are hundreds of them from the classic partition to the latest mono metal wonder bullets. Why take the chance ?
Big game Hunting bullets are for killing Big game.
Varmint bullets are for killing varmints.
Since the first 7x57 went to the range or into the hunting field, real sportsmen knew the difference.
More time spent with Bell, Keith, Hunter, O'Connor and less time watching American Sniper might result in a return to hunting.
While I love long range shooting at paper and gongs, I would never insult a wonderful big game animal by taking a shot where a hundred variables over which I have no control could cripple an animal. IME, once 300 yards is passed the "cripple curve" goes up like a F22 Raptor.
Short answer: no an AMax, Match King, Berger or other target bullets are not hunting bullets regardless of the hype. You must have a bullet that will break bones, make two holes and wreck the vitals in between. There are hundreds of them from the classic partition to the latest mono metal wonder bullets. Why take the chance ?
So what your saying is you don't have a fuggin clue.
Exactly. Lotsa talk without much experience using those bullets on game...
Apparently......
I always love the " must have a complete pass through" or " I gotta have two holes" argument.
Hands down.... Those " target" bullets have provided more DRTs for me than all the "big game, hunting bullets" combined that I ran prior. But that's just shooting well over a 100 WTs a year so it must just be a WAG.....
Big game Hunting bullets are for killing Big game.
Varmint bullets are for killing varmints.
Since the first 7x57 went to the range or into the hunting field, real sportsmen knew the difference.
More time spent with Bell, Keith, Hunter, O'Connor and less time watching American Sniper might result in a return to hunting.
While I love long range shooting at paper and gongs, I would never insult a wonderful big game animal by taking a shot where a hundred variables over which I have no control could cripple an animal. IME, once 300 yards is passed the "cripple curve" goes up like a F22 Raptor.
Short answer: no an AMax, Match King, Berger or other target bullets are not hunting bullets regardless of the hype. You must have a bullet that will break bones, make two holes and wreck the vitals in between. There are hundreds of them from the classic partition to the latest mono metal wonder bullets. Why take the chance ?
Probably time to get with the times.... do a bit of research. Talk to some folks that have WORKING knowledge of things and so on...
As to variables past 300, there are enough shaky folks at 100 that have no business. Max distance is where you are able to make the shot 200% of the time and that can vary from minute to minute.
I don't know about anyone else but I've shot in winds strong enough on a target range that I would not have shot at game at 200 yards....on other days 200 yards offhand is a gimme. I've shot on days at paper where the wind has snapped 2x4 carriers in half... but not at game. On calm days I've killed game first shot over 800 yards out there... and I've done it with all kinds of bullets.
In fact IMHO using some cup and core bullets that are "hunting" bullets in certain situations would be worse than using a good "target" bullet.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
Have not tried them in 7mm, but they work fine in a 308. The Amax is soft and frangible, so often it does not pass through especially if the shot is close where it will fragment more. They are good for heart/lung shot placement. I prefer the SMK's which penetrate better as I tend more toward the high shoulder on large deer, but both are effective.
Because these discussions occur over and over, I made a video with each bullet. My wife is running the rifle. The shot placement on the deer is at the base of the neck at the crease with the shoulder impacting the spine. The pig is shot at the base of the ear.
You boys can do whatever you want. In 60+ years of shooting, there is not much I have not sent down range or into animals. I also respect the knowledge of those who have gone before us. Wonder if any of you read that story in Rifle or Handloader where the Berger team went to NZ to hunt stag ? They killed them, bullets went in a few inches and exploded like a varmint bullet on a woodchuck. In hole was one caliber and closed, there was no exit hole. Had a gust of wind drifted that bullet on to a stout bone, there would have been a lost animal.
Get close, use a hunting bullet and you'll put meat in the freezer. If you want to impress folks with your 600+ yard shots, stick to gongs and paper.
Find an experienced PH or Guide who will disagree ..... well you won't.
If I draw this year, my speed goat rifle will be this. A long "44 Magnum", anyone want to bet I won't put one in the cooler ?
Wonder if any of you read that story in Rifle or Handloader where the Berger team went to NZ to hunt stag ? They killed them, bullets went in a few inches and exploded like a varmint bullet on a woodchuck. In hole was one caliber and closed, there was no exit hole. Had a gust of wind drifted that bullet on to a stout bone, there would have been a lost animal.
You seem to have forgotten the part of that article where John Barsness recounts deliberately shooting big feral goats through the shoulder, trying to make the Berger VLD bullets blow up. The bullets all penetrated the shoulder before expanding.
This thread is about deer, we're not extrapolating to elk or eland.
You boys can do whatever you want. In 60+ years of shooting, there is not much I have not sent down range or into animals. I also respect the knowledge of those who have gone before us. Wonder if any of you read that story in Rifle or Handloader where the Berger team went to NZ to hunt stag ? They killed them, bullets went in a few inches and exploded like a varmint bullet on a woodchuck. In hole was one caliber and closed, there was no exit hole. Had a gust of wind drifted that bullet on to a stout bone, there would have been a lost animal.
Get close, use a hunting bullet and you'll put meat in the freezer. If you want to impress folks with your 600+ yard shots, stick to gongs and paper.
Find an experienced PH or Guide who will disagree ..... well you won't.
If I draw this year, my speed goat rifle will be this. A long "44 Magnum", anyone want to bet I won't put one in the cooler ?
Huh, interesting... I've got a boss in Alaska that's got a bit of "experience" that would whole-heartedly disagree, as he's seen a plethora of Dall sheep and Goats killed with A-Maxes. And I guarantee if somebody showed up with that gigantic POS you posted they'd be laughed back into the gear garage to grab a different rifle.
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