Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Deer Hunting 7mm amax for deer?

I have a 7mm rem. I am wanting a good bullet for long range(500-1000 yard) practice along with mid to long range (200-600 yard) hunting capabilities on deer.

I know the accubonds are accurate and good for hunting, but I can get twice the a-maxes for the cost of the accubonds and they should be accurate and hold velocity at longer ranges.

I've dialed in the 168 matchkings but would like one bullet and load I can practice with for paper punching and using hunting, without costing too much.

In my experience, accubonds, matchking and gamekings, A-max's, and tsx's consistently give the best accuracy in the multiple calibers I've owned

If I were to go for bigger animals, I'd definately step it up to a tougher bullet.

Anyone hunt with the A-max?

I can't help with the A-max but would ask why not try the Gameking? It was designed for your purpose...

The A-max has a much higher BC, but the gamkings would definitely still work for the hunting distances I specified. The amax would be better for long range target practice though. Just trying to have a bullet do double duty, but I might be expecting too much.

I'd not worry about an Amax on deer. I have seen them zook more than a few times in 6.5 and 7mm..but for deer size critters i wouldnt worry much, cept if meat/cape damage is a concern.I've never seen,and dont expect to see a deer walk off a good hit from an Amax

but,IME the good ol' hornady HPBT is a better game bullet than the Amax.

I prefer Scenars and Bergers for hunting, but there is a big price difference from the Hornady bullets.

Questions like this, is always like opening a can of worms. You may want to try the LRX. It may be the best of both worlds and what you are looking for IF you have enough twist to stabilize it:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/54...ameter-168-grain-lrx-boat-tail-box-of-50

Please shoot Accubonds and get closer.

you probably can't shoot 600 yards

You're not. I have absolutely no qualms about using the 162s (or the 6.5 140s) on deer at those distances. Used them out of my 7 WSM last year on a culling job. 40-42 deer over two days out to a hair over 680. Like Roscoe said they can be messy up close at those starting velocities, but I was still getting complete pass throughs on the long end of those ranges. Some of them stem to stern....

Just about any bullet out of a 7 RM will kill deer. One thing I like about the 7 RM is that it is usually easy to get multiple loads to shoot at our near the same point of impact, at least at 100 yds. I have had 140s, 160s and 175s all go into less than 1.5" groups from at least three different rifles. The others I never bothered to use anything other than various 160s.

Any of the sleeker hunting bullets will stay within +/- 2" of the target bullets of the same weight for a long ways off.

maybe you can't, but I can. I'm not a long range junky and I've taken deer at 15 yards before. Out here in SD we have lots of open land and I want to try some longer shots once in a while instead of always stalking extremely close with no cover, low crawling for miles. I've regularly shot iron sights to 300m, so 600 with a scope and only taking the shot when the situation allows, should be no problem. I'm not a guy that just takes pop shots at deer. I always choose my shots wisely.

I can admit. I can't.

Hunting in Michigan and annually in SE Ohio. Woods hunting

Target bullets are for shooting targets.

Big game Hunting bullets are for killing Big game.

Varmint bullets are for killing varmints.

Since the first 7x57 went to the range or into the hunting field, real sportsmen knew the difference.

More time spent with Bell, Keith, Hunter, O'Connor and less time watching American Sniper might result in a return to hunting.

While I love long range shooting at paper and gongs, I would never insult a wonderful big game animal by taking a shot where a hundred variables over which I have no control could cripple an animal. IME, once 300 yards is passed the "cripple curve" goes up like a F22 Raptor.

Short answer: no an AMax, Match King, Berger or other target bullets are not hunting bullets regardless of the hype. You must have a bullet that will break bones, make two holes and wreck the vitals in between. There are hundreds of them from the classic partition to the latest mono metal wonder bullets.
Why take the chance ?

I'm getting popcorn.

So what your saying is you don't have a fuggin clue.

Exactly. Lotsa talk without much experience using those bullets on game...

Apparently......

I always love the " must have a complete pass through" or " I gotta have two holes" argument.

Hands down.... Those " target" bullets have provided more DRTs for me than all the "big game, hunting bullets" combined that I ran prior. But that's just shooting well over a 100 WTs a year so it must just be a WAG.....

Probably time to get with the times.... do a bit of research. Talk to some folks that have WORKING knowledge of things and so on...

As to variables past 300, there are enough shaky folks at 100 that have no business. Max distance is where you are able to make the shot 200% of the time and that can vary from minute to minute.

I don't know about anyone else but I've shot in winds strong enough on a target range that I would not have shot at game at 200 yards....on other days 200 yards offhand is a gimme. I've shot on days at paper where the wind has snapped 2x4 carriers in half... but not at game. On calm days I've killed game first shot over 800 yards out there... and I've done it with all kinds of bullets.

In fact IMHO using some cup and core bullets that are "hunting" bullets in certain situations would be worse than using a good "target" bullet.

Have not tried them in 7mm, but they work fine in a 308. The Amax is soft and frangible, so often it does not pass through especially if the shot is close where it will fragment more. They are good for heart/lung shot placement. I prefer the SMK's which penetrate better as I tend more toward the high shoulder on large deer, but both are effective.

Because these discussions occur over and over, I made a video with each bullet. My wife is running the rifle. The shot placement on the deer is at the base of the neck at the crease with the shoulder impacting the spine. The pig is shot at the base of the ear.

You boys can do whatever you want. In 60+ years of shooting, there is not much I have not sent down range or into animals. I also respect the knowledge of those who have gone before us. Wonder if any of you read that story in Rifle or Handloader where the Berger team went to NZ to hunt stag ? They killed them, bullets went in a few inches and exploded like a varmint bullet on a woodchuck.
In hole was one caliber and closed, there was no exit hole. Had a gust of wind drifted that bullet on to a stout bone, there would have been a lost animal.

Get close, use a hunting bullet and you'll put meat in the freezer. If you want to impress folks with your 600+ yard shots, stick to gongs and paper.

Find an experienced PH or Guide who will disagree ..... well you won't.

If I draw this year, my speed goat rifle will be this. A long "44 Magnum", anyone want to bet I won't put one in the cooler ?

You seem to have forgotten the part of that article where John Barsness recounts deliberately shooting big feral goats through the shoulder, trying to make the Berger VLD bullets blow up. The bullets all penetrated the shoulder before expanding.

This thread is about deer, we're not extrapolating to elk or eland.

Huh, interesting... I've got a boss in Alaska that's got a bit of "experience" that would whole-heartedly disagree, as he's seen a plethora of Dall sheep and Goats killed with A-Maxes. And I guarantee if somebody showed up with that gigantic POS you posted they'd be laughed back into the gear garage to grab a different rifle.

Tanner

On deer/antelope/black bear I've had only good results with the 162 Amax.

On elk, I've had both good and not good results. A friend was involved with multiple 162 kills on nice elk this year, and had good performance all around. I probably wouldn't carry them for elk again, but rodeo's can skew you that way.

I think it's one of the better bullets for your described use you could come up with.

I'm not sure what you mean. What is American Sniper? Sorry, but I don't watch a lot of TV. I don't spend a lot of time reading hunting books either. I'v read my engineering books and get back to hunting when the tags are available. So, I guess I can get back to hunting next year.
I'm just not sure what your getting at.

Hornady lists it has acceptable for some hunting, so That's part of why I was asking for experience using this bullet on deer.

I know when I can shoot longer ranges, and I know when I can't, just didn't realize hunters were so avidly angry at each other for using different methods, in different terrains, with different equipment.

I didn't know this would turn into an ethical pissing match argument. So to sum it up, I only really care to hear from people who have used the A-max hunting. I've used TSX, accubonds, partitions for hunting, but my question was about the A-max and if they work on deer.

Thanks to those who kept on subject and shared THEIR or THEIR FRIEND's experiences with this bullet.

All of the men you cited seemed to prefer the best equipment available and your photo is far down the list of what is available today. Who of them do you think would pick that rifle, scope and bullet combo as their first choice if they were alive today with the modern choices available?

Choot em in the lungs with it and they will die.

amazing about sticking to 600 yards on paper when one you profess to follow, Keith, was known for long shots with small handguns...

I"m pretty stubborn, but even I admit things change and sometimes even for the better. Heck Ballistic tips came out like varmint bullets but have toughened up...

And explosive...well you might want to take some time to explain why sierra GAME KINGs, have come apart enough to be stopped by 60ish pound pigs shot in the neck, at under 200 yarsd from a 7 mag.... I've seen more "game" bullets fail, IMHO, than I have "target only" bullets....

Thanks for your "permission".

So in your 60 years, have you personally run an AMax, Scenar, Berger VLD, etc into ANY animal? Or are you still just talking out of your arse?

Under a previous screen name 7X64FN posted about shooting a pronghorn with a 22-06 and Barnes bullets. I'd be curious as to what year and what state he did such a feat in?

Isn't 7x64 the latest incarnation of Larry Root?

It is.

Careful guys. If you keep this up he will start talking handloads and show a photo of someone elses loading manual!

He's a trend setter albeit legally immature.

When in doubt, attack the messenger.

Sorry, chillin a'int rising to the bait.

Enjoy whatever it is you do.

best to you and yours, Larry

Killed a lot of deer with the 162 Amax and SST....DRT at every distance out to 500 which is my longest shot.

Really?

I am not buying this

I'm guessing it's about a sniper?

Ol Elmer claimed 600 yd shot on a deer with a 6" 44mag with iron sights. I choose to believe he did it. The original stunt shooter!

Seems I know of more than a couple guys who have done some guiding that would be in the same camp as your boss...

That deer was already wounded and getting away so Elmer gave it a shot ,pun intended !

google it, since you obviously use a computer

Yes he is.

Well, I have found out, the 162 A-max is kind of a pain to get to shoot, but I found an accurate load, even though the velocity is low. The sierras are much easier to find an accurate load and I think I'll end up going to the gameking just because I can't get the velocity of a 7mm rem with accuracy with the A-max
That is a 38 special case

But I should just be happy with the velocity with this type of accuracy. I develop loads with 4 shots just in case I pull a shot, as I did here.

I went out to the long range and it was gusting on and off 20mph swirling crosswinds. I set gallon jugs at 300, 400, 500, and 600 yards (holdover's end at 600 yards). Sighted in the Votex hold over reticle at 200 yards. 1 shot at 300 yards = exploded jug, 2nd shot at 400 yards = exploded jug, 3rd shot, 500 yards = exploded jug. 4 & 5 shot @ 600 yards = barely missed to right, adjusted 1 click left and 6th shot = dead center and exploded jug at 600 yards.
I'm feeling good about the rifle and scope, but I am finding it difficult to get 7mm mag velocities out of this tikka using H-1000 and H4831. I am seating bullets out to 3.340 just like every other magnum based off the h&h case. I see no reason to seat to a COL of 2.9 when the magazine allows regular magnum length and 2.9 leaves TONS of freebore.

You know this is a public forum right? People are going to read/see that.

I'd have to sit up on a billboard on I-26 to see 600 yards.

we're lucky out here in the black hills. 1000 yards at this particular spot and no range fee.

Not sure we can "help" this fella.

[quote=cooperfan]Please shoot Accubonds and get closer.

you probably can't shoot 600 yards [/quote

Wow this might get good

ok, not sure what's going on. just sharing my results after some load development.

My 7-08 loves em and I cant wait to put one in a whitetail. Seems to me that if run at modest velocity they will work great

Why are you running at 7-08 velocity?

Because I'm already running over book max with that charge and when I increased the charge I started to get scraping (smile) on the case head.

Trying to get to the next accuracy node started to cause a slightly sticky bolt

Even using H1000 I found I difficult to break the 2900 fps mark with the amax and the 168 Sierras

Not sure need to clock em but if the book is even close I would guess 2600ish. I would really like to run em closer to 2700, and for all I know I am, but I'll take the accuracy Im getting now over speed.

I'll report back after Turkey season when I have time to clock them.

How do the 162gr A-Max work in a 1-9" twist, seen on the box 1-8" twist

Simply amazingly. I shoot the 162 A-max out of a 280 AI and my dad does as well out of his 7mm Weatherby Remingtong 700. We both got PA bucks and a doe this year with this bullet at ranges from 50 yards to 250. Deer all died within 40 yards showing excellent performance. Not sure who can dispute these results especially after never trying one themselves. Just use them, shoot a deer, and become a believer.

I do believe in the A-Max for deer been using the 178gr 30 cal and 105 243 A-Maxs for years. What twist barrel are on your 7MM's I know the Wby is a 1-9" twist, what's your 280AI. The box has 1-8" twist on it that's why I asked. You can give up a little on the twist when you drive the bullets faster. Want to see how the work out of the 7-08 at the 7-08 velocity. I have used the 162gr SPBT in my sons 7-08 with it shooting one hole group at 100 yards. I know the A-Max has more bearing surface and wonder if that is why they say 1-8 twist

Bearing surface isn't the determinant.

64grs h4831 gives me 2743fps and is super accurate from my 7wsm. I have had better luck with velocity using 4350 from my 7wsm and the 162s. I found an accurate load @ 2900fps with it and I could not get there with 4831.

The 162 AMAX stabilizes fine and is very accurate in my 9 twist .280AI.

The Hornady 162 gr A-Max with H4350 or H4831 is the ultimate bullet in the 7x57 for Big Game Hunting

Shot this deer last year at 18 yards with a 162 Amax outta a .280 Rem. Impact velocity would have been about 2800fps.... give or take.



Deer went down.... hard. But, it didn't exit on a quartering away shot.... and as far as I could tell, nothing made it to the off side ribs. Here's the entrance....

dog shooter did you find any remains of it?

I didn't really go looking for it, but there's a piece of jacket it the picture. We took the buck apart on the spot, and I didn't want to go sifting through a bunch of nuked offal. Again, that deer went down as hard as I've ever seen.... but in that jungle, two holes woulda been awful helpful had he not turfed on the spot.

The previous year I shot a similar size deer, with a similar shot, at about 40 yards with a 123 Amax out of the .260.... it exited about the size of a golf ball.

Just cause I like the pic...

Thanks. Judging from that wound I'd have expected him to be down and out pretty quick!


That is a nice picture; nice lighting.

Put a clock on em today and got to 2600, I was hoping for more but Im thinkin that will work

Who amongst the users is comfortable using them on a follow up shot that out of necessity must go thru more than a little meat?

Just about anything works on the perfect broadside.

My 280 AI is 1-9" twist. I know many shoot 1-9" twist 7-08's and the 162 stabilize very well. I wouldn't worry about the box recommending a 1-8" twist.

IME the bullet is up to the task, but you might lose a little meat.

Thanks,

Many are using them successfully, so I will not be the one to say no way.

However, I can't see myself leaving TTSX, NBT or Accubond for my predominately wood/semi-open hunting situations.

No, me neither. The 162 AM is at its best for semi-open/open-country hunting. For woods/semi-open terrain I like to run the TTSX, myself.

passport, I was referring to Gohip' running 2750 out of the 7 Mag, not your 7-08. I did not know if he was running this way on purpose or not but a buddy pointed out he is seeing pressure signs.

If that were the case in my 7WSM, I would switch powders.

In Gohip's case, if 2750 was okay for velocity, I would drop down to a 7-08 and burn less powder than the 7Mag.

If I would have known it was going to be hard to get normal velocity, I would have gone with the 7mm-08. I was hoping for 2900-3000 fps. I've noticed on other tikkas I had trouble getting decent velocity also. It may be a tikka thing. The barrel is 24" and I planned on re barreling to the same caliber in a 26-27" barrel after this one goes south. I do sell guns a lot, but I'm hoping to keep this tikka and build off it. I don't think the 7mm STW will fit in the tikka action, but I've thought of going with a 7mm-375 Ruger when it's time to rebarrel. I think going with a longer tube will end up giving me the velocity I was looking for. I might have to try 4350. I didn't initially because I know it seems optimized for the 30-06 case.

I have to say that the 7MM Remington magnum is a fine round and that I have used a lot. I have also noticed that getting top velocities is tougher in some rifles than others and that getting those velocities in that particular cartridge with accuracy seems to show that on average it is not as fast with the heavier bullets as most would like. R22 worked best in one of my rifles but I had to search and burn powder and bullets to get there.

Things can get tricky with the bullets 160 gr and up in the 7 Rem Mag,but not impossible. I think we get married to powders along the burn rate of H4831 or R 22 with 160's and sometimes this works and sometimes it doesn't.

These days we have more and better slower burning powders. There isn't any reason for the OP to be running 2750 with the 162 Amax. It isn't a fussy bullet IME. I run them at 3200 from the 7mm Mashburn Super from a 9 twist and they shoot very well.

I have not used them in the 7 Rem Mag but today first powders up for me would be RL25 and RL26. I have found RL25 to be good with bullets 150 gr and up in the 7 Rem Mag. I have not gotten to RL26 yet but think slow burners along the rate of RL25 and 26 will show good results.

I have a M70 being barreled in 7 RM right now and RL26 will be the first thing I try with 160 gr bullets when it shows up. I expect velocities to be somewhat over 3000 fps.

Does anyone believe Hornady's SST would be as good or better on deer even big bodied deer than an Amax?

Reason I'm asking is I have a 30-06 that loves the 180 SST better than anything, but I have read others say they fragment badly yada yada yada. So, I have not yet used it on deer.

Does anyone have experience with both the SST and Amax?

I prefer deer bullets a bit softer than Accubonds.

I had good results with the 150 gr. SST on deer, seemingly controlled expansion and a 2 inch exit hole on a broadside ribcage hit.

Interesting stuff. I have a new PacNor 1 in 9" barrel on my 7mm-08; still just starting loads for it.