Home Forums Reloading Bullet Casting Re-learning how to cast....suggestions?

OK, so when I was a kid, my dad and I cast round balls for muzzleloader, bullets for various handguns and rifles, and even fishing lures. I think he stopped casting somewhere around the time I turned 10 or 11, give or take. I'll be the big 4-0 later this year.

So....getting more into flintlock shooting, I came back to casting lead. I've secured an old Saeco (made by Lyman) pot, and through local sources, I managed to get 270-ish pounds of what appears to be extremely soft lead in 45lb (+/-) bars. Also, a buddy of mine runs an auto repair/exhaust/tire shop. He has about 100lbs of wheel weights I can have for the taking, plus whatever he accumulates going forward I can have as well.

So here are some questions I have, as youtube and interweb research has given me somewhat of a start.

1- The wheel weights....what I've been able to read on the topic is to expect about 50-75% of the weight of the heap of wheel weights to be actual useful lead. YouTube vids show folks simply throwing a heap of them in an old pot over a heat source, and letting the lead start to melt. The zinc weights and steel clips/weights float on the lead and can be pulled out with tongs. Is that all there is to it? Seems pretty straight forward, just looking for a "reality check".

2- The lead bars.... They are fairly large in size. I had figured I'd need a chisel to cut them into more manageable chunks. Any other suggestions on how to take them apart?

3- Ingot molds....necessary to use an actual ingot mold, or are the guys using corn pone/muffin pans onto something? Just worried the molten lead won't release from the pans.

4- Respirators? I get the need to do this work outside (I would only be able to work in my basement in my current house, and I don't think that's a great idea), but some on the 'Net are saying a lead-rated respirator is necessary and/or a good idea.

5- Heat sources....I figured I'd use the side-burner on my gas grill for now. Some say old hot plates get hot enough. I was pretty surprised to hear that. Anyone else using them? I'd like to not burn up my gas grill propane if I can avoid it, just because it's a PITA to go refill them.

Thanks!

1. That's as good a method as any to sort wheel weights. Clip on lead= the best. Stick on lead= very soft. Clip on zinc= poison to the melt, sort them out by hand first (you can spot them with a little practice) and then carefully monitor the melt to catch them before they dissolve in it.

2. No easy way to do it. I have resorted to chisels and axes a few times.

3. Any old thing of a correct size will work. Stay away from the teflon coated muffin tins.

4. Personal preference. I'll admit to never having used a respirator, but on the other hand I always set up with darn good positive ventilation. I have always cast in my basements, too. I dislike being at the mercy of the weather in regards to doing it outside. (Not to mention sweating over a hot pot on a summer day, or freezing your nutz off in the winter just for the sake of a few lead bullets!) My ideal setup would be a little shed dedicated to the job, with heat/AC, and good ventilation.

5. An old hot plate is an excellent heat source for a cast iron pot. Preferably one with a rheostat so you can adjust the temp according to what your thermometer indicates. I did it a few times with a Coleman camp stove, but it wasn't the greatest. The grill will work but I would compare propane cost versus kW hours cost to run the hot plate. Heck, you could do it in the kitchen on the stove, and the range hood would be a dandy exhaust vent. (Just wait 'til the wife goes away, and plan on begging forgiveness- 'tis easier than asking permission!)

Well, the exhaust vent on our stove shoots right back out in the kitchen, as the house never had the vent to the outside installed (built in the early 60's, and I'm not retrofitting one!).

Was hoping I didn't have to hand-sort the zinc weights, but sounds like I do. I'll have to figure out how to ID them. It looks like zinc melts about 100deg F hotter than lead. So if I can keep the melt safely under 700, the lead should melt and the zinc won't.....in theory, right?

Scrap lead and wheel weights are fine for plinking loads. Zinc can be segregated by weight as it's a lot lighter.

When you get serious about casting consistent accurate bullets you are far better off spending a few bucks on quality metal designed for the bullets you are casting.

http://www.rotometals.com/Bullet-Casting-Alloys_c_93.html?gclid=CKWP3fuOzZcCFQpknAodzhz08A

Buy a SAECO lube sizer as it's the best (mine is pushing 40) and the Lyman cast bullet book.

Join the Cast Boolits (note spelling) website

450/400 Ruger No. 1 398 gr NEI sized .411 and lubed with SPG. 5 shots loafing along at about 1500 fps.

Scrap lead and wheelweights are fine for making accurate shooting and hunting loads.

maybe you just need to know what you are doing?

Good point. Have you gotten a copy of Lyman's cast bullet handbook? Probably the best primer for a newbie caster (and an old caster too). Basically, keep your eyes open for old books/manuals that can often be had for cheap, by such authors as Phil Sharpe, Earl Naramore, etc., not to mention old issues of Lyman's manuals. Old copies of the American Rifleman often contained articles by guys like Col. Harrison, Bob Sears, C.E.Harris, etc. and are worth reading. The old timers worked out the basics of casting long ago- there's no point in re-inventing the wheel if you don't have to.

Rotometals is an excellent source for virgin metal of known alloy. They can be pricey though, but right in line with spot market metals prices. I have my alloys worked out for specific applications and blend them from wheel weights, pure tin, linotype, monotype, and pure (or nearly so) lead. When I'm feeling flush I send off to Rotometals because that takes a lot of the guesswork out of the equation. When/if you take it to another level a hardness tester is invaluable for custom blending alloys, to know if you are being consistent each time. Best bet is to make up as big a lot of alloy that you can each time so as to avoid (or minimize) discrepancies which are sure to happen. When you need tin to "sweeten" an alloy, haunt the yard sales and thrift shops for pewter doodads- they are typically 95-97% tin and can be had for far cheaper than the $20/pound tin is going for right now. A scale that accurately measures ounces and pounds is another big benefit for metering elements for your alloy.

A good lubrisizer is a joy to use. Everyone has their favorite model, but it isn't totally necessary for starting out. Pan lubing and a push-through die will get you in the ball game.

Cast Boolits is a great site- lots of knowledge there. Add The Cast Bullet Association to the list of sites to join also. Not as much extraneous chatter goes on there as at the other site, and academic discussions concerning cast bullet applications and theory tend to stay focused. While there, spring the couple of bucks for their CD of Frank Marshall's columns "Speaking Frankly" accumulated from old copies of the CBA newsletter. I knew Frank, and his wisdom and "down home" delivery were both entertaining and and a gold mine of useful cast bullet information.

It is a hobby that can be as satisfying/fun as you care to make it. Everybody has their own idea of what it means to them. Think about what you want out of it, set some goals and work toward them. One thing you really want to disabuse yourself of is that you will save a ton of money by making your own. Unless you really keep equipment to a minimum, be satisfied with mystery alloys, and resign yourself to average results, it will get out of hand and you'll find yourself acquiring more and more stuff- and the resultant costs will belie the term "cheap bullets"! (But Lordy, what a fun trip it'll be! )

LOL, sort of like saving money by reloading. I'm not sure I've save anything, but I get what I want, how I want it, when I want it, so long as I have proper components on hand. I guess it's sort of the same deal.

My interest in casting stems from shooting a 62-caliber flintlock. 0.600" round balls are extremely expensive from a store or online retailer. I pay less for Nosler Partition bullets for my centerfires than I do for 0.600 roundballs. I can cast them a whole lot cheaper, and keep a larger supply on hand to shoot, which means I can shoot more. My initial focus is on that, but since I also shoot a 45-70, 45ACP, 41 Mag, 40S&W, and a slew of rifles that could at some point benefit from good cast bullets, and given the situation that I have access to about as much wheel weight scrap as I care to have, I figured it's worth venturing into bullet casting as well as round balls.

Alloy composition is one thing I hadn't thought much about....hmmmm.....for rb's, I have sought out soft/pure/close to pure lead. While I don't know for sure, the lead I got recently seems very soft. Folks at a black powder forum I belong to have often suggested a "drop test" to see if lead will "ring" or "ping" when hitting concrete. The stuff I got goes thud/splat when it hits, and is easily scratched with a thumb nail, so it's gotta be relatively soft?

I got enough of that to last me a few years with a lot of regular shooting in the flintlock. The wheel weights can go to plinker bullets for the handguns or the 45-70. I'd lump my 40S&W in this mix, but it's a Glock with a stock barrel. I could get it an aftermarket barrel, I suppose.

For the cartridge guns, I really don't see this as a money-saving venture. More see it as something fun to do, and a way to keep a bigger stock of bullets available as opposed to having to buy jacketed bullets, or even cast bullets, on sale/online/etc. If I have access to raw material and have the equipment, I figured it's worth putting them to work! I have enough brass for a good while for everything I shoot, so if I can keep a good stock of bullets, then my only worry (along with everyone else in the world) will be powder/primers.

Sounds like you have your eyes wide open!

I too like dead soft lead for ML balls and yours "sounds" right. Alas, I don't shoot nearly as many round balls as I used to.

You don't happen to have any .610 balls, do you? I need that size to fire out of my .625-bore miniature cannon (no patching). I only fire it a handful of times a year and can't justify the cost of a mold for it, but perhaps I should bite the bullet...

Funny you should mention 610's....

I have shot 600's a fair bit, but still have to mess with 610's some more. I haven't bought an RB mold specifically because I haven't fully determined which size I'm going to use for the long haul. Once I do, I'll buy a mold and start production. I have a good load for hunting purposes with the 600's, just looking to see if I'll get any more accuracy from 610's. This could take a bit, as I have patch thickness to mess with as well.

So far I've run 600's with 015's (patches were TORCHED, lol) and with 024's (work relatively well, although I periodically get a cut patch, which could mean I need a hair more thickness in the patch). I want to try the 610's (I have a handful) with the 024 patching, which I haven't done yet. I tried them with 018's, reasoning that the total diameter in play was very close to a 600 with an 024 patch. Accuracy wasn't what I wanted, so that was that, but I haven't had a chance yet to run 610's with 024 patching, which may be the ticket. Just have to get to the range and give 'er a go.

Whichever size shows the best results is the size mold I'll buy. If it ends up being 610, then that's the mold I'll get, and I can surely spare a few to help you out. Just depends on what the rifle decides it likes.

At $10/25ct for these balls, making my own seems awfully good economically. I got the 270-ish lbs of soft lead for $100. A friend gave me a Saeco pot. I have to get a few more odds and ends and I'm ready to start as soon as the weather cooperates.

Yep I'm sure you could teach me so much as I've only been casting for 55+ years.

You musta missed that 450/400 5 shot group eh ?

Well, it ain't how long you been there, it's what you've learned since you've been there. You still think the SAECO lube sizer is the best there is. Others who have been there and done that might disagree with that opinion as well.

Nothing at all wrong with WW metal for bullets for just about anything you want to them to do. They've taken a fair number of animals for me.

Nice 10 yd. group by the way. But you used the wrong lube. And the wrong bullet to use for big game hunting.

1. I'm not sure I'd advise throwing all the wheel weights in a pot and adding heat until the zinc, clips and steel weights float. The problem is that the bottom of the pot may go over 780F and melt the zinc which will give you oatmeal looking lead. Separate enough known lead wheel weights (I use diagonals and give them a cut/squeeze test). Get the lead melted and clean out all the clips and crap. Monitor the temp and keep it below 700F then add more wheel weights and continue to strain the clips, zinc and crap. 100 lbs won't take too long to process.

I finished up the wheel weights. I MOSTLY sorted pre-melting, although toward the end, it was a cursory glance at each handful, sort out the stick-on's and the obvious non-lead weights, rest go in the pot. I kept a close eye on it, and was pulling out non-melted items pretty quickly. All the lead looks pretty good, and I wound up with 76.25lbs of ingots from the clip on weights. I might get another 2-3lbs from the stick on weights, if that. It was not much by volume compared to the clip on weights, so I don't expect to get much from them when I melt them.

In the meantime, I scored some near-pure lead (sheeting from the walls of an x-ray facility. Haven't picked it up yet, but for a very, very low price I'm getting a few hundred pounds of pretty close to pure lead, so that's a nice little pick-up.

Also found out my father-in-law can get me babbitt scrap from where he works (can use it for the tin). I have someone who will test the metal for me to get a breakdown of it's alloy composition, and an basically limitless supply of free babbitt, so that's been some good news, too.

I have a Lube-A-Matic sizer inbound, have to get dies/punches, but we're getting closer!

I have to shoot the flintlock soon and determine if I am going to 0.610 balls or staying with 0.600's. Whichever wins, I'll buy the mold and this soft lead I have can start getting turned into round balls.

Sir,

Be very careful about the x-ray sheeting! I have read on another thread(Castboolits, I think) that a man got very very sick from the residual radiation from x-ray sheeting from a hospital. Something as simple as storing the irradiated lead far away from people and animals where the elements (rain), over a season or two, can leach away the radiation in a safe manner would help quite a bit. PS: Don't contaminate your well water!

I am no expert in radiation so I strongly suggest you contact someone who is. Free lead now isn't worth cancer two years from now. Unless of course Hillary is elected.

For cutting up those large folded up and crumpled pieces of pure, use a saws all. Someone else here on the fire was using his wood splitter.

Actually, I have been using a chisel to start a cut, and then it will literally just rip if I pull on it. Then I fold it up in a square and put it in the pot to melt. It's been working well.

Follow up to my earlier post:

It is safe to use x-ray sheeting. I had the opportunity to ask a safety expert from Lawrence Livermore labs about used x-ray sheeting in cast bullets. Short answer: No problem. Long answer: I am not smart enough to explain all that he said but the radiation from an x-ray is so temporary that nothing lingers in the lead sheeting. The lead is used, of course, as it is dense to shield everyone behind it from the x-rays.

I've got to talk to some hospitals!

I can tell you, this sheeting is EASY to work with. I can start a line with a chisel and then just pull by hand and tear a chunk off. Melts easy and pours nicely into my Lyman ingot mold. The residue from the sheetrock smokes a lot, but it skims off easy enough. And the lead is dead soft, as expected.