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I shoot a Beeman R9 in .22cal (.22cal is a much better killer than .177 IMO). Take out a hundred or so of these guys each spring with it. Works great in semi urban areas where noise and ricochet is an issue. Not to mention a nice spring air rifle is a lot of fun to shoot.
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Last edited by centershot; 02/11/15.

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That's some good work Centershot. You're the reason I had to buy a .22 cal HW50S last fall. A step down in velocity from your R9, but the nicest shooting springer I've ever handled. Those Rekord triggers are super nice.
To the OP, if you can justify a bit more money, the Weihrauch made rifles are definitely worth it. (The Beeman R9 is made by Wiehrauch, same as their HW95)

http://www.airgunsofarizona.com/Weihrauch.htm


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Velocity ratings are the worst thing to ever happen to spring air rifles.......how many gamos have been sold with thier 1200fps rating on the box? What they don't say is that the pellet is tin foil to go that fast and you cant hit anything with it when it does go flying out the barrel. My R9 shoots Crosman Premier HPs (14.3gr) at 650fps (I think it's rated at 800fps? who cares?). I have shot rock chucks in the head at 30 yards and seen the pellet hit in the mud 10 yards behind the chuck so hard I though I'd missed when it actually had passed through and made that big of a splat.

A quality air rifle is something you will cherish for life, a cheap one will sit in the closet unused. You tell me which is money better spent.

Last edited by centershot; 02/12/15.

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Amen to that..PeashooterJoe

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If you are looking for a Springer, then buy the Hatsan 125 Sniper in 25 cal and don't look back , it is a beast for a air rifle. I like mine.

http://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Hatsan_125_Sniper_Air_Rifle_Combo_Camo/2675/5269



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A friend of mine has an Air Force Condor for sale. It does a .177 at 1,450 fps. He's got a silencer on it and has the pump for it as well. I could get someone a good deal on it.

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Originally Posted by tmitch
That's some good work Centershot. You're the reason I had to buy a .22 cal HW50S last fall. A step down in velocity from your R9, but the nicest shooting springer I've ever handled. Those Rekord triggers are super nice.
To the OP, if you can justify a bit more money, the Weihrauch made rifles are definitely worth it. (The Beeman R9 is made by Wiehrauch, same as their HW95)

http://www.airgunsofarizona.com/Weihrauch.htm


Do you have iron sights and a scope on your HW50S?

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I still haven't mounted a scope on my HW50S, been enjoying the simplicity of its irons. I have a 3-9 EFR Leupold for it still in the box. The irons on the Weihrauch are nice, the globe front has several inserts to suit your taste. A soup can is in trouble out to 50 yards or so offhand. I have a 3-12 RA Burris on my .25 Marauder that I use for sniping pests, but the handling between the two is like a flyrod vs a 2x4.


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I picked up a couple Benjamin Trail NP XL rifles in .177 a week or so ago. I thought I was done with .177 since going to .22 but found these for a decent price. These jokers throw a tiny little pellet hard! While I still would've preferred a .22 I look forward to seeing what can be done with some heavier .177 pellets. So far I'm impressed but already decided to sell the second one and look for one in .22.

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Originally Posted by LostArra
I've killed some squirrels with my old Daisy breakbarrel .177 but are .22 really the way to go for small game? I'm looking at getting an RWS 34

(I'm a newbie to real airguns)


I started hunting small game with air rifles back when the .20 Beeman R-1 was first imported to the U.S. I had one of the first of them.

In 2000, my former home state of California clarified section 311(f) of their Fish and Game Code to make air rifles shooting pellets a lawful method of take for small game, but they also added resident upland game birds to the list of air gun game -including turkey. Turkey had a minimum caliber restriction of .20, at least through 2007, when I moved to Oklahoma.

An R-1 was more ordinance than I wanted to hump across high desert mountains chasing quail and chukar partridges with, so I sold it and used the proceeds to buy a pair of lighter, more compact Beeman R-9's, with one in .177 and the other in .20. I had both of these tuned to run at 15 foot pounds of energy at the muzzle.

I found the .177 to be highly effective, with the caveat being using pellets with high ballistic coefficients -examples would be Crosman Premier (both light and heavy), JSB Exacts, or Beeman Kodiaks.

In a "middle magnum" class spring-piston air rifle, it is entirely possible for a .177 to deliver more downrange energy to the target, if pellets of high BC are used, than the same powerplant in .22 can deliever. The reason being that the starting velocity will be higher and the high BC results in a higher percentage of velocity retention over distance, and since velocity is squared in energy calculations while projectile weight is not, the result is more thump. My .177 R-9 running 15 foot pounds at the muzzle will whack a 50 yard target with up to 9 foot pounds of energy. That's enough to shoot completely through a jackrabbit's noggin with the classic "behind eye / below ear" shot placement.

I didn't do much squirrel hunting out in California, but do a whole lot of it here in Oklahoma. I've not found the .177 lacking, or didn't when I still had it.

The .20, which I do still have, when shooting Beeman Field Target Specials, has a flat enough trajectory to give me an effective range of about 45 yards. The .20 penetrates well -about on par with .177 driven by the same powerplant, and obviously makes a bigger hole than .177 does, making holes that look more like .22 than .177. I might have been brainwashed by Dr. Beeman as a kid, but I still think .20 is the all-around way to go for a middle-magnum or magnum spring-piston rifle.

Another thing about the .20 and .22 is that inside of 35 yards, you can pretty much shoot any pellet you want to and whack critters dead with it.

That's not the case with .177 because some pellets, like RWS Superdomes, really ain't so super, at least in the ballistic coefficient area. The BC is so bad (.009) that they shed velocity quickly, so that at 25 or 30 yards, just about any .22 pellet shot from a rifle with the same powerplant will hit harder. That ballgame changes, though, when you use pellets with high BC (.021-.032) in the .177.

Here's another reason why I ditched the heavy and long R-1, mighty though it was, for the lighter, more compact R-9 platform....

Airgun ballistics being what they are, a whole lot more foot pounds of energy on the front end DOES NOT equal a corresponding difference downrange.

My R-1 I had, running at 19 foot pounds, would deliever about 11 foot pounds to the 50 yard line.

My R-9, running with a four foot pound disadvantage in muzzle energy, can whack a 50 yard target with up to 9 foot pounds of energy. Since I'm not often shooting game at the muzzle, but some distance away from it, how much energy I've got at the 50 yard line matters more to me than how much I've got at the muzzle.

My R-9 is tuned, but added power was a byproduct or secondary objective. The primary objective was increased smoothness of the firing cycle and reduced "hold sensitivity."

This isn't 1980 anymore and here in 2015, where I can take advantage of high BC pellets that didn't exist in .177 when I first started airgun hunting, the .177 is what I would choose over the .22 in guns running from 12 foot pounds muzzle energy to about 16 foot pounds, assuming the use of high BC pellets. Beyond 16 foot pounds, in something like a Theoben Crusader or Theoben Eliminator, it would be .20 if they still make them in that caliber and .22 if they don't.

I'm not a huge fan of pre-charged pneumatics, personally, but pneumatics generally are more efficient with larger bores than smaller ones -to a point. I don't really have anything against PCP other than I don't want to deal with scuba tanks or pumps when I could just cock, load, and shoot, as I've been doing with "springers" for decades.

I'm biased, but I highly recommend the Beeman R-9 or whatever the equivalent HW model is (HW-95??). It's an heirloom piece of equipment with good aftermarket support, a rifle designed with an eye toward easy spring and seal changes, and they have the excellent "Rekord" trigger which is still one of the best you'll find on a spring-piston sporter air rifle.


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Great post TeleCaster
Thanks

Since my original post I've decided on the R9/HW95 and I've made pendulum swings in caliber choice from 177 to 22 and back to 177.

Your post is very similar to some other experienced R9 shooters on the Gateway forum (nced).

Also since my original post my nephew gave me his like-new RWS Diana 45 in 177. It was one of the early 800fps springers in the 1980's. It's a fairly long and heavy rifle and delivers quite a punch but I'm still in the market for the R9.

I am a little uneasy about all the tune/tuning folks will put into their air rifles. My plan is to shoot about 1000 rounds then decide if I want something changed.

In what part of Oklahoma are you located ?

Thanks again

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Originally Posted by LostArra
Great post TeleCaster
Thanks

Since my original post I've decided on the R9/HW95 and I've made pendulum swings in caliber choice from 177 to 22 and back to 177.

Your post is very similar to some other experienced R9 shooters on the Gateway forum (nced).

Also since my original post my nephew gave me his like-new RWS Diana 45 in 177. It was one of the early 800fps springers in the 1980's. It's a fairly long and heavy rifle and delivers quite a punch but I'm still in the market for the R9.

I am a little uneasy about all the tune/tuning folks will put into their air rifles. My plan is to shoot about 1000 rounds then decide if I want something changed.

In what part of Oklahoma are you located ?

Thanks again


Tahlequah....

And you're welcome.. I can pretty much promise you that an R-9 is something you'll not regret buying. If you do, you'd be the first person I know of who did.

BTW, what part of Oklahoma are you from?


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Eastern Ok county, between Jones and Arcadia

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I bought an R9.... It sucked goat balls.... just nicer goat balls than every other springer I've ever shot. The problem with the spring guns arrived when hunting with them, as they are very difficult to shoot from field positions and at steep upward angles (which is where the doves/starlings seem to like to hang out.)

I ended up going .22 Mac1 Discovery... and it's an absolute peach. 825fps with a 16gr JSB, and kills with authority.... even on rabbits and prairie dogs. Pump it to 2200psi and I get about 18-20 good shots.... and refills are far easier than the 3k/psi guns.

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PCP's are fine, if you like to carry a pump (or scuba tank) with you......they have a place and are wickedly accurate and easy to shoot.

TeleCaster - the math does not win out with a hunting air rifle for me. The .22 is a much better killer than the .177 - velocity and energy levels via formulas would not suggest so, but 1000+ rock chucks with rifles of both calibers has absolutely shown me that the .22 kills faster and more consistently. The problem with the KE formula is that it does not provide for the additional frontal area (.346 for .22, .278 for .177; ~25% increase). In a slow moving projectile that has proved a substantial difference for me. Pass through energy is wasted energy. At the ranges I typically shoot (25-50yds) the trajectory difference is minimal. The .20 cal may be the perfect compromise but the availability of ammo makes it a little more difficult to deal with and the difference for me is not worth the hassle.

As usual, it depends on what you are doing with your air rifle, what game your trying to take (the op ask about hunting air rifles) and at what range your likely to be shooting.

Last edited by centershot; 03/31/15.

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Originally Posted by LostArra
Great post TeleCaster
Thanks

Since my original post I've decided on the R9/HW95 and I've made pendulum swings in caliber choice from 177 to 22 and back to 177.

Your post is very similar to some other experienced R9 shooters on the Gateway forum (nced).

Also since my original post my nephew gave me his like-new RWS Diana 45 in 177. It was one of the early 800fps springers in the 1980's. It's a fairly long and heavy rifle and delivers quite a punch but I'm still in the market for the R9.

I am a little uneasy about all the tune/tuning folks will put into their air rifles. My plan is to shoot about 1000 rounds then decide if I want something changed.

In what part of Oklahoma are you located ?

Thanks again


I've owned one of those RWS Diana's in 22 cal' since somewhere back in the 70's ; Still appears unused
For what little I've shot it I've had success & a lot of fun with it . I think I might be over airguns now tho
Rich


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Originally Posted by nitrosonic
Originally Posted by LostArra
Great post TeleCaster
Thanks

Since my original post I've decided on the R9/HW95 and I've made pendulum swings in caliber choice from 177 to 22 and back to 177.

Your post is very similar to some other experienced R9 shooters on the Gateway forum (nced).

Also since my original post my nephew gave me his like-new RWS Diana 45 in 177. It was one of the early 800fps springers in the 1980's. It's a fairly long and heavy rifle and delivers quite a punch but I'm still in the market for the R9.

I am a little uneasy about all the tune/tuning folks will put into their air rifles. My plan is to shoot about 1000 rounds then decide if I want something changed.

In what part of Oklahoma are you located ?

Thanks again


I've owned one of those RWS Diana's in 22 cal' since somewhere back in the 70's ; Still appears unused
For what little I've shot it I've had success & a lot of fun with it . I think I might be over airguns now tho
Rich


I hope I never get over airguns - a nice spring rifle is the fountain of youth for me.


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Originally Posted by centershot
Originally Posted by nitrosonic
Originally Posted by LostArra
Great post TeleCaster
Thanks

Since my original post I've decided on the R9/HW95 and I've made pendulum swings in caliber choice from 177 to 22 and back to 177.

Your post is very similar to some other experienced R9 shooters on the Gateway forum (nced).

Also since my original post my nephew gave me his like-new RWS Diana 45 in 177. It was one of the early 800fps springers in the 1980's. It's a fairly long and heavy rifle and delivers quite a punch but I'm still in the market for the R9.

I am a little uneasy about all the tune/tuning folks will put into their air rifles. My plan is to shoot about 1000 rounds then decide if I want something changed.

In what part of Oklahoma are you located ?

Thanks again


I've owned one of those RWS Diana's in 22 cal' since somewhere back in the 70's ; Still appears unused
For what little I've shot it I've had success & a lot of fun with it . I think I might be over airguns now tho
Rich


I hope I never get over airguns - a nice spring rifle is the fountain of youth for me.


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Springers are nice for the $$$-I've owned RWS 34 & 45's and 2 Beeman R-10's,but they are no comparison to a pcp gun.My synthetic Marauder is factory tuned to shoot 25.39 grain pellets @ 820 fps,and I get 25+ accurate shots before pumping.While I don't get the accuracy that some claim,the gun will shoot groups under 1/2" at fifty yards way more often than not.The last three 5 shot groups at 50 yards averaged .379".The gun is also quieter than a springer and not hold sensitive-bipod,sandbags or whatever-poi doesn't change.I can consistently kill starlings at 60+ yards,and the .25 pellet make a very loud pop when it hits.

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I've killed squirrels & crows @ 60 yds. with my RWS34 - .22. 700+fps @ the muzzle. The hard part is hitting them right.

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