Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles Blurred Lines

I've been thinking about this for a while and the recent post asking for advice on a "tactical" rifle brought it up again.

I think that a decade of war (sending back a whole new generation of young trigger pullers) and the crazy popularity of 3Gun shooting in the last few years has really started to blur the lines between "tactical" and "competition" and "hunting / plinking" ARs.

Take for example the BCM Haley Jack Carbine. Travis Haley was an active duty Marine for 15 years (Recon) and this is the AR he wanted his name on....
14.5" Mid-Length Gas
Free float rail
Hybrid Compensator
ALG Trigger


I've done a fair amount of 3Gun shooting and done well at national level matches. I've also carried an AR professionally for around the last eight years.

I can tell you that for 90% of 3Gunners that Jack Carbine would do all they ever needed (and with a different trigger I'd make that 95%). It's also nearly identical to what I carry at work (mine has a 16" barrel, but I'd prefer his).

And it seems like a lot of the time when we give advice on here about what makes a good hunting rifle it would be pretty similar to that rifle too, but some prefer a longer barrel for hunting.

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We are quick to recommend "buy a Colt and shoot it to figure out what you want", and that's not bad advice, and it's advice that I've given myself. But I've started changing that thinking a little. I'm all about shooting being more important than gear-buying and went all of 2014 without buying ANYTHING sort of AR related gear, just ammo.

But IME, people will shoot more when they enjoy shooting more. And they'll enjoy shooting more when their AR in pleasant to shoot and hits what they're aiming at. I've started recommending some sort of 1-4 over irons or dots because in general people can't hit anything without magnification. And if they can't hit, they won't want to go to the range.

That's why I've also started recommending a trigger upgrade. The ALG ACT trigger can be had for $60 and is, to me, a great improvement over every factory trigger I've pulled. Sure, a well-worn factory trigger will be just as good. But if people don't enjoy shooting then they won't ever wear that factory trigger in.

I also recommend spending a few minutes and a few dollars correctly buffering an AR. I can't tell you how many people I've had shoot my rifle and hand it back to me saying, "Wow, that feels GREAT." And they've all racked their AR and shot mine instead. I can't help but believe that those guys would be shooting their ARs a lot more if they just enjoyed them more.

And IME people shoot better with a longer-than-carbine-length handrail. Free float or not, when exposed to a longer handrail people seem to shoot better when they're not so cramped.

yep.

This one blurs things a little, with fancy 18" barrel, rifle gas, long rail, and SSA trigger.



I still may tinker a bit more with it, not to mention load development, but it's a little handier than my bull barreled 20". Fun rifle to shoot, and could do a lot of different things.

I agree. Seems to me that most of the difference between good hunting and tactical AR's is in the optics and other accessories you mount on it.

I'd be interested in hearing some details about how you go about correctly buffering your ARs. Mine shoot pretty soft so I haven't bothered to mess with them, but improvments are always welcome.

I agree this is a nice idea, I upgrade the trigger in all my guns, for $2100 the barrel is what?

Man everybody has a Noveske priced gun, are the components worth the money?

The Daniel Mk12 barrel is 1 in 7" stainless, cold hammer forged, and nitrided - "fancy"

The problem with suggesting things, is you never know what they are after.

Bottom line though I agree on basics. A GOOD trigger NEVER hurts.

Irons take desire to shoot well. Very FEW folks have desire to do anything that takes effort, they want the Mc Donalds route out... that means scopes.

The short guns seemingly take folks a bit more to master, even though IMHO there is no real mechanical difference. But I"m against collapsible stocks for beginners.

Of course that takes me back to what the normal AR was... 20 inches, but put optics on a flat top instead of irons... is best to start with.

While at it, get a trigger and float it, what the heck.. and again FMJ is not ammo. Well it isn't but it isn't much...

I have not looked at RRA books lately, when you have as many ARs and lowers as we have you tend not to keep up with goings on.... but I suspect that they would have something factory to fit the bill, trigger being the one thing that still could use some work or replacing, even the NM versions of the triggers.

There is no need to go the Wilson La Rue type route right away.

Don't you have a buffering article done somewhere? That can be important for folks. Though IMHO the 5.56 doesn't have recoil to start with, but smooth can make it even more fun.

I think you're going to be hard pressed to get most guys who haven't owned an AR and are debating taking the plunge to drop $2k on their first rifle. Most guys are hard pressed to drop $1k for something they aren't quite sure about.

Ol Jack copied me

Exactly.

If you put your new Mk6 on it, that'd be rockin 3Gun rifle. Or with a 3-9 a great hunting rifle, or with a 3-18 a precision rifle.

Mine had a different rail, but that's a near duplicate of my first 3Gun AR.

I wouldn't pay near $2100 for that gun, or a Noveske. A good chunk of that money is paying for the Haley name, for those that care about such stuff he's a pretty big deal.



I just threw that Jack Carbine up as an example of what real live gunfighters are promoting, not necessarily as an example of what to buy. I sure wouldn't buy it.

But you can nearly duplicate it for a lot, lot less. And that's what I'd recommend.

Im happy to hear what you have and offer an over the Internet guess as to what might help. But if what you have shoots soft now my first recommendation would be to leave it alone. If you change one thing it can affect others and sometimes you can create more problems than you solve, trying to get it juuuuuuuuust right.

The one I'd be interested in tuning is a 16" 223 Wylde, mid-length gas, FA BCG, but will have to pull the buffer out to check what it is. Whatever comes in a lower parts kit, probably a standard carbine buffer?

the only thing I don't get is the 14.5 inch barrel with pinned brake, it surely makes the gun easier to use if getting it in and out of cars like a patrolman would have to do, but 18 inches total length with brake cannot be that much worse.

On the other hand, wish they sold the barrel separate

Whose barrel?

You can check the buffer weight by just opening up the upper / lower and looking at the face of it. Unmarked is carbine weight, everything else will be stamped "H", "H2", etc. It depends on the LPK but it's probably a carbine weight.

A cyber guess would be to try an H buffer if you wanted to change it out. Get it dirty, load some mags with one round each and see if the bolt will lock back on an empty chamber. Use the weakest ammo you ever plan on shooting.

Shoot it back to back with the carbine buffer and see if you can feel a difference. Try it offhand and see if you can SEE a difference between the two while looking through your sights at the target (as it fires and recoils).

reduce felt recoil, improve reliability, reduce bolt carrier speed, reduce wear on parts, reduce shock and vibration to optics, and suppress bolt bounce with this simple drop-in replacement. Designed for AR-15 rifles with a collapsible stock. This buffer has a piston that is hydraulically dampened to absorb the shock of impact from the bolt carrier's rearward motion and to prevent bolt bounce as a new cartridge is chambered. You will feel less recoil and smoother operation with this buffer and you will see less movement of your sights during recoil for faster shot to shot recovery time.

advertised right here, problem solved for $110!

Those BCM 14.5" barrels not only give you an advantage of being shorter, they're also incredibly smooth shooting. You have more blast than an 18" gun obviously, because it's closer to your face, but it's about as easy shooting as an 18" rifle gas barrel.

Getting a rifle out of a patrol car rack is a pain, because of all the other stuff in the car. But unless you go full on SBR, a pinned 14.5" isn't a huge advantage IMO.

You can get that upper with everything but the rail (which I wouldn't want anyway) for $565. BCM is offering a free BCG with every upper purchase.

You could nearly duplicate that rifle for $1000.

So on the money with all the comments here. I feel people tend to go so heavy in one direction to make a platform "better" at something when it severely compromises the other uses the rifle could see.

I do wish I had gone with a pinned 14.5 simply because with the new car and vertical mounts every inch counts. I have to keep my stock fully collapsed just to get it out in a timely manner. My rifle was built along the concepts of the Jack carbine for about $800 and I have not found it lacking in anyway for a patrol rifle.

I started out with a flat top and regular hand guards, then went the Hogue tube/Jewell trigger route with an A2 stock. Killed lots of critters with it. Then I saw new designs and started trying pretty near everything I could find to build the perfect AR.

Found lots of "marketing" and a few truly innovative upgrades but it all boils down to an accurate barrel gassed and buffered right, everything else is subjective to whatever your heart desires.

What I did find out was a 14.5" barrel is the last thing I want due to a velocity loss of almost 100 fps over a 16" barrel. If you need shorter, go shorter. Don't waste my time with an inch and a half.

The Jack carbean reminds me of the "Jack of all trades, master of none". But marketing is just that.

I agree with Blue on the ALG combat trigger. I have them on all my ARs. I'm used to 3.5-4 lb single stage triggers on bolt guns and that ALG feels great. I just can't see paying more when it works so well for $60.