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I swap scopes all the time, guess that is why I like the LaRue mounts, in the end if your shooting expensive bullets, it might be cheaper just to buy a return to zero mount. Then let's say your scope take a crap, and your using a cheap mount, its just one more variable to figure out. Confidence in your equipment was never cheap.


ARIC

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The lines started blurring a long time ago when a certain American military unit started (re) realizing that they weren't the top shooters, nor close. The only difference between paper, steel, and flesh is the emotion we put into it- the guns don't know the differance.




There's about 30,000 words here for those with an inkling......


[Linked Image]



From the first Carbon fiber freefloat handguards to the MK12, to the KAC MRE, to the MK12 Hollands, to the present Block II M4's, there's been a steady progression..... Irons, Aimpoints, EoTech's, magnifiers, 1-4x's, 1-6x's, etc....

Even the Marine Corps is coming on board- looking at 16 or 18in barreled M16's with collapsible stocks, extended freefloats rails, Giessele triggers, and muzzle brakes. Yes- muzzle brakes.


As for barrel length make mine 14.5in please. I can do 16's, but all considered the 14.5in is the sweet spot...



An extended freefloat rail is the biggest upgrade that can be done to an AR/M4.

[Linked Image]


And is the first thing I would do to one. Yes- before a trigger, or even an optic.



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What buffer would you guys run in a 16" mid-length?

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It depends on how big the port is but I run H2's in mine.

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Jeff you can carry a red dot and have flip up irons a lot easier than carrying extra guns. wink

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My first AR-15. It came as one those 11.5 inch Bushys with the silly long flash hiders. First thing was cutting off the charge handle and building a custom scope mount then a new 16 inch barrel.

[Linked Image]

Next was free float handguard, rifle buffer system, mounted light, Jewel 2 stage and proper sling. Notice drop chart taped to optic. Over 20 years ago.

[Linked Image]

Current AR setup is really just refinements on the theme. Middy gas, Geissele trigger, better light, better sling, better buttstock, better handguard, better barrel, custom Drop Compensating Turret, ect. As such it is more accurate and reliable but the form factor is pretty similar to what I had over 2 decades ago.

[Linked Image]

Blue is spot on and in todays world there are a bunch of better choices for the first time AR buyer than a 6920 if they actually want to use the gun. grin


John Burns

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They can't stop the signal.

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Originally Posted by TWR
It depends on how big the port is but I run H2's in mine.


What do you mean port? If it helps any, mine is a BCM govt profile BFH barrel.

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"port" ....
The hole in the barrel to feed gas down the tube to cycle the action.

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Originally Posted by bearstalker
Originally Posted by TWR
It depends on how big the port is but I run H2's in mine.


What do you mean port? If it helps any, mine is a BCM govt profile BFH barrel.


I'd get an H buffer for midlength or H2 for carbine gas, most likely. BCM barrels are pretty mildly gassed.


Originally Posted by SBTCO
your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling
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I use as heavy a buffer as the gun will lock the bolt back on an empty mag. It surprised me that my mid length Noveske actually needed an H2 to run properly.

A Daniel Defense carbine gassed I had needed only an H buffer.

It must lock the bolt back on an empty mag and eject spent cases at 4:00 It all depends on the port size. But you'll really feel the difference when shooting off hand.


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I see the targets are you saying they took a single gun, shot it without a free float rail, then installed a free float rail on the identical gun and shot it again?


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Yes. That was a single standard issue Colt M4A1 with KAC Rail. 10 shots from 10 different positions at two different distances. A drop in freefloat rail was installed on the same gun and the exact same sequence repeated. Same lot of ammo.


As far as MOA groups size is concerned- it took the 100% hit rate on an 8 inch target from 30 something meters to over 200 on that gun.



Multiple randomly selected M4's were tested in the exact same manor. Shooters ranged from new members still in training to extremely high level competitors.

The gun I shot went from a 100% hit rate (again group size) on an 8 inch target of something like 68 meters, to 290 something meters.

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Originally Posted by TWR
Jeff you can carry a red dot and have flip up irons a lot easier than carrying extra guns. wink


LOL, anything I can do wiht a dot I can do with irons.... but magnified optics can trump that.

I carry a gun for the job at hand, generally no spares.. LOL. they stay in the safe.

I could see the use for the qd mounts though for when the zombies get here. Grins.


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Originally Posted by Formidilosus
Yes. That was a single standard issue Colt M4A1 with KAC Rail. 10 shots from 10 different positions at two different distances. A drop in freefloat rail was installed on the same gun and the exact same sequence repeated. Same lot of ammo.


As far as MOA groups size is concerned- it took the 100% hit rate on an 8 inch target from 30 something meters to over 200 on that gun.



Multiple randomly selected M4's were tested in the exact same manor. Shooters ranged from new members still in training to extremely high level competitors.

The gun I shot went from a 100% hit rate (again group size) on an 8 inch target of something like 68 meters, to 290 something meters.


Same target for NTIT. Buddy ran a stock colt and would have 100 percent hit rate with a sling, no float tube, at 600 yards with irons. Granted match ammo tweaked for the gun.

But then again he knew how to use the sling.

I still won't rate a float tube as number one. BUT I think I do have only one gun thats not floated.... WTF, floating can be done for 100 bucks or less last time I looked. Like you can get an RRA trigger for 75ish... I mean maybe not the best either one, but both are definitely not negatives.


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Originally Posted by rost495

LOL, anything I can do wiht a dot I can do with irons....


I would almost agree except for right before dark. Irons are no fun at dusk.


John 8:12 "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."
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Time to move to optics for me. Dots dont do me much good if I can see them but not the target. if I can see the target, and its dark I'd just as soon have optics.

Of course the tritium ghost ring and front post with irons don't hurt anything much when its dark.

Really should qualify some of these threads as plinking, target, hunting, imagined SHTF, or imagined I'm in the military and have to provide my own firearm and ammo, to save my life and fight with...


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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It's easy to tell who the 'kiddies' are; first thing they do is mount a friggin scope! I'm 'old school' and I still see the irons quite well. In original configuration the AR sights are set up for the vision of an 18 year old because of the short sight radius. It was obviously clear to old heads when this rifle was first adopted by the military that the designer thereto didn't know jack schitt about what makes for accurate shooting!! frown IMO having the front sight attached atop the gas block is akin to sitting on the commode to take a dump and then realizing that you're out of crap paper! shocked If the front sight had been attached out farther on the barrel accurate shooting would be much easier!!


Even birds know not to land downwind!
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Hey Form, which Go-Pro is that on your helmet.

Thanks.



Travis


Originally Posted by Geno67
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual.
Originally Posted by Judman
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
Originally Posted by KSMITH
My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Originally Posted by RMulhern
It's easy to tell who the 'kiddies' are; first thing they do is mount a friggin scope! I'm 'old school' and I still see the irons quite well.


Why do you have a scope on top of that beloved .308 of yours?



Travis


Originally Posted by Geno67
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual.
Originally Posted by Judman
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
Originally Posted by KSMITH
My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Still trying to wrap my head around it I have both with float and without float. I don't see such a huge difference. Here is what I am thinking. Hand loads make a shooter out of any gun if you work at. Maybe I need to mess with Some 855 and see what it does float vs no float


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