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Originally Posted by GunLoony88
Originally Posted by mathman
Originally Posted by GunLoony88
I've just found I have an issue with a set of Redding dies. It kept making crooked ammo, so I took the depriming rod out and then measured some cases - looks like pulling the case back over the sizer button was really screwing up the straightness of the cases. I'll have to figure out if I can leave the sizer button out (I can deprime in other ways) and still seat the bullets, of try to straighten the deprime rod.


Get one of the tapered expander balls Redding offers for their dies, and expand the necks by pushing them over the ball in a separate step.

Or get a Lyman M-die or other separate mandrel type neck expander die.


Math - it already has a tapered expander ball, but the shaft seems to be slightly bent, thus making the case crooked. When I removed the expander ball, the cases come out nice and straight grin


Get a new rod assembly...or get a carbide expander assembly. The floating carbide expander WON'T fix anything really out of whack though!

Redding sells die parts, as do others, and Midway handles most of them.

Forster (sizing) dies that size down a thicker neck of some brass a bit can be corrected with different diameter expanders. It also does the opposite with "thinner" brass. They work, yet keep the necks in round, without resorting to several trips through the die.

Another thing that should be mentioned is how well the seating die stems mate up with the bullet ogive and at what point/bearing surface they contact. That can also create a runout issue, even with the alignment systems of great seating dies.

One last thing: find a system. Mathman and others here use certain "known" quantities. They use the same or similar make and quality of brass, bullets and dies so that using the runout gauge every time they reload is pretty much omitted.
But they didn't get there without a gauge of some sort and when problems show up at the range, the gauge is often drug out to sort things.
I rarely use a runout gauge anymore unless using WW or RP cases when sorting.

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I had to straighten a few of my dies up and after pushing the brass over the expander vs pulling it over my stuff tightened up considerably. My .223 Rem dies I had up to .013" of runout all in the seating process prior to straightening them in the press.


Pretty much any runout I get is through the seating process. I will get several in a row of .001 - .003 and then I will have a .008" or greater and then right back to .001 - .003. I assume a comp seater would help here?


I shot yesterday with ammo sorted from .004 and down and .007 and greater, but it was a limited test as I was short on time and ammo. The ammo with less runout shot 1/2" to 3/4" less than ammo with greater runout from the rifles I used yesterday. The one that really struck me was the bad ammo shot .9" from my 700 ADL in .243, under 1" with crooked ammo. The good ammo I loaded for it had runout of .001, .001 and .003" and I only had the 3 rounds for it, they went .37". I probably 10-12 100yd groups under 1/2" with that rifle and it rarely ever goes over 1" but it has before.

My other .243 went from under 3/4" straight to 1.25" crooked and my .223 was under 3/4" almost 1/2" straight to over 1" crooked.

When I saw that it makes you wonder about those "flyers" where everything felt good when the trigger broke but the round still landed over there?


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A quality comp seater is never a mistake, IMO, simply because it can reduce runout caused by human element, possible press or shellholder issues and align the bullet with the case. It may not reduce runout in cases with straight necks with careful loading and even neck walls so it will NOT fix any mis-alignment caused by uneven case neck walls, just slightly reduce it.

They are also more likely to use a seater stem for VLD, tipped and match bullet profiles with long noses, which if used with the wrong seater stem can create runout. Also they are more likely to reduce shaving and runout if you use cast or miss a chamfer.

If you have cases with uneven neck walls, there is no good fix and the only real fix is to neck turn the high spots. Uneven neck thickness is likely the cause of your issues (assuming all of these cases have been fired once).

I usually cull the cases; really, I just buy brass of known quality and try to avoid cases that are "seasonal run" only.

Lapua, Norma and Nosler cases in 243 or 223, a straight sizer and a decent seater die should eliminate any sorting and large variables.

Hornady and LEE seaters also work quite well on the cheap, just be deliberate when putting the case in the shellholder.

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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
You need the concentricity gauge because you never know what the actual results are from certain dies without checking.

Plus, it will save you money in the long run, because some cheap dies can be easily adjusted and modified to make really straight ammo--but you need the gauge to find out what works.



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I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
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I have a very basic RCBS Rock Chucker Supreme set up and use a combination of RCBS, Lee and Redding dies. It does fine but I'm sure I missing opportunities to refine my loads for better accuracy due to my reloading abilities or lack thereof.

After playing with Lee collet neck sizing dies for a new 7mm-08, I'm thinking about doing some experimenting. I haven't decided yet but, I considering buying a small arbor press and use L. E. Wilson neck sizing and bullet seating dies. Most of my reloading is done for my various hunting rifles and would probably be just about as quick with better quality and a more concentric bullet seat.


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By "hunting" rifle, I'd assume you mean factory rifle/chamber/barrel?

I wouldn't expect any dividends by going to the arbor system at all. You'd be miles ahead/better served by buying the best brass possible for your chamberings, a runout gauge and dies if warranted. If all is well, a LEE loader could be perfectly fine for a hunting rifle.

Arbor setups don't get attention from even the most sick accuracy freaks until a rifle system is built around them.

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