Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Custom Rifles & Wildcats Legendary Arms Works Rifles-A new rifle manufacturing company

Damn, you gave money to a dealer in MD? You poor soul.

Holy fugg!

I guess I missed the price sheet. I thought these were closer to $1,500.00.




Dave

I think suggested retail is $1399 for the closer. And yes, I hated to do business with someone in the communist republic of Maryland, but LAW didn't have any dealers set up in NC yet.

I'd have waited, frankly. No way in Hell I'd voluntarily send a dime to any business in the Communist Hell hole of Maryland.

For $1300, one could get one in, un-FUBAR the .22 caliber f'k up pretty easily and still be into a damn nice rig for well under $2k.

Ok. I must have misread your other post. I thought you were saying they were $3K.

Hope she shoots for you. Give a review once you get it. If I were going to pick one it would have been the .243 as well.



Travis

Give me a Montana then instead.

IF twist, mag and throat were to line up it's a good price

It's not really about ballistics, twist or throat to them, it's about contractual obligations.

If you want to manufacture anything, you have to estimate demand and order at least a year in advance from your suppliers. A barrel maker won't gear up to deliver several thousand barrels to your door without iron-clad contracts in place. There may be an option for changes, but the added cost for that will be specified in the contract as well.

So a major issue at play is that LAW likely already bought and committed to buying and ordered barrels in the various twists they originally thought the market would want based on what other manufacturers are currently offering.

If they change specs mid-stream what would they do with all the unwanted barrels?

...at higher elevations.

No so Reed has already changed some twist rates as this thread unfolded,he just didn't change them enough

Changes in twist on unbuilt barrels would cost zero and should be written as such. I'd have reservations about any company that would sign a contract where they're charged for changes to something that's not even built yet and doesn't impact the barrel maker's COGS. They're not sitting on a years worth of barrels in the shop right now.

As to the 1-9 flinging 105's - the runt's Ruger groups 105 Amax's rather nicely here at 580 feet ASL.

Manufacturing is essentially about making a product at a given price point, and locking in costs through contractual agreements for a specified time period...manufacturers commonly do this with their suppliers based on yearly projections.

As Reed stated in his last post on this thread, in his opinion, their rifles are spec'd the way the market wants them to be because they are selling them, so if a customer wants something different at this point, then the customer will have to pay the difference.

But one might question that if there were no cost difference to manufacture to a different spec, then what are the extra costs that will be passed on to the customer that he is talking about?

Anyway, that's what Reed was saying, and it's their business, so you'll have to call them up and argue with them about it, but if your Amaxes are happy in a 9 twist, then no worries, you can buy one of their production 9 twist 6mm barrels and not have to pay the additional costs for a faster twist barrel...that don't exist.

PreparationH,

LOVED the heart felt Vagina Monologue,as you kicked-off Kchunt Fest 2015! Bitchin' Whine there Toots!!! Laughing!

I'll feign my "surprise" that you skirted ALL things The Rifle and are more than a touch nervous to say a fhuqking thing about anything germane,regarding the particulars that bear fruit(throat/twist/COAL).

Points awarded for "recieve" though! Wow! Laughing!

You "hard charging" Do Nothing Dumb Fhuqks are a RIOT!

PLEASE find me "mistaken" and I will happily take the time to rub your nose even further in your own Stupidity,if only because my Engleesh is beyond reproche and I'm as at eaze in sandbagging...as you are talking out your ass. Laughing!

Hint.

Just sayin'.

Bless your heart.

Knock it outta Da' Park and comment on how you shake a rifle out?!? Spare no details and don't let the couch get your kchunt,nor the cat your tongue.

I'm crying I'm laughing soooooooooooo fhuqking hard!!!..................










Salty,

It got purty fhuqking quiet.

Why is that?!?

Laughing!...................










taylor',

Personally...the Montucky and RAR runs,appeal more.

MRC has the COAL,but nuttin' else and as per always,it's about connecting all the dots.

Hint.....................











dvd',

There is admittedly much humor,in seeing the Future.....................(grin)










16',

Sir...do NOT discount the endorsement of The Hollywood Hunter and Boddington.

Laughing!........................










'smoker,

I've seen me bolster the Economy more than a smidge and for more than a few reasons,though for only a coupla decades.

Ignorance IS bliss and PreparationH is Blisseder than most.

The "lucky" Bitch!..................(grin)











rosco',

The voids are many and in retrospect,it's disheartening how the obvious has loooonnnggggggggg been overlooked.

Funny part is,were an OEM Manufacturer(especially a "Legendary" one) to twist/throat/COAL correctly,none of these Drooling Dumbfhuqks would know the difference and they could happily plod along in Cluelessness as they have from Day One. Secondly,there's no added expense in the Manufacturing end.

Win/win/win.

The FWB 300S was a Retrostalgic Itch,fueled by having launched pallets of pellets through like platforms,back in The Day.

Hoping to score a Running Boar version next................(grin)











FO',

Them who shoot...get it.

Them who don't...NEVER will.

Though it is HILARIOUS to watch a Train Wreck,despite "expert" "thought" driving the "trend".

Wow..........................












RWE,

Don't be so hard on LAW.

They are honestly doing the BEST that they can,given the grey matter they have to work with...................(grin)










'ger,

Pass a used Montucky that "doesn't shoot"...as a vastly superior donor from any/all angles.

Hint................










Tanner,

A true 1-9" at low tide on The Milford will do exactly that which you cite and at a 2.8" COAL smooch.

Though many find them facts unsettling.....................(grin)











'Cat,

Stupid is never smart,though LAW has their heart set in trying to dispel facts. I've this [bleep] hunch,they ain't gonna rewrite Physics...no matter how many Drooling Dumbfhuqks are able to Fantasize about same(grin)

They'll fold and wonder "why".................










teal,

It is CHEAPEST to do things right,from the get go and nothing is less expensive that Reserve RPM...not that I don't enjoy the humor of the naysayers!

LAW is very obviously procuring bottom rung barrels and are a touch taken aback in fronting same. The Secret Squirrel Schit attached to that Business "Model" only adds more hilarity,to the glaring Dumbfhuqktitude of the AMAZINGLY Stupid Dumbfhuqks calling the "shots" at LAW. Funnier than fhuqk and then some!!!

Hear nice thangs about sub sealevel 1-9" 105's myself...............(grin)

If I go to Barlein's site - I don't pay extra for a twist I desire. I pay extra for contour or length. IOW - TWIST has no effect on the barrel makers COGS and thus they don't charge extra based upon twist. Same with Brux and it was the same with Krieger.

1. LAW isn't taking delivery of a years worth of barrels at any one time.

2. Their barrel maker has a COGS for each barrel and charges accordingly. If something affects COGS - cost to the customer goes up. Apparently the only thing affecting this is contour and length, NOT twist.

3. I would immediately fire any purchasing manager who entered an agreement where my costs as the rifle mfg are affected by changes to orders on inventory that my supplier hasn't even produced yet and it doesn't affect my producers cost to manufacture. One thing if there's a spike in commodity prices, that I understand. Twist rate changes don't fall into that category. If twist did - you'd pay more for a barrel with a 1-8 instead of 1-9 all else being equal. You don't because it doesn't.

4. The most likely purchase scenario for LAW and their barrel mfg is price A for 1-20 barrels, B for 21-40 and then C for 40+ (numbers are arbitrary) in standard contour, above a certain contour/length - different price. (as they've shown in their own pricing on their own web sites)

Pricing is dependent on number purchased AFTER minimums are met. It has nothing to do with twist. As far as the barrel mfg is concerned - it's simply volume as the twist doesn't introduce any extra cost to them.

If LAW is passing on extra costs to the customer to go out of their arbitrary twist rate - it's not because the new barrel is going to cost materially more from the mfg. It's because LAW is charging a convenience fee for not being able to simply make the rifle without concern for the specific customer. If every rifles the same - you don't have to worry as much about getting the right one to the right guy. Or LAW simply ordered a bunch, took delivery of a bunch (not a years worth) and now they sold a rifle that didn't actually reduce their inventory of barrels. They're carrying those costs longer. Not my problem because as it's been pointed out here - those who don't know - aren't going to complain about extra twist. Those who do know are going to complain about not having enough twist.

Servicing the latter does nothing to harm your ability to service the former. It increases your customer base at zero added cost.

My point about the Amaxes had more to do with this:



I'm not exactly at a high elevation - sub 600 and the 1-9 will stabilize the 105 amax in the cool/dry air I shoot in. Eventually we're going to be completely lead free. It's a fact, it's coming. To get the same BC in a mono-metal means I need to be quite a bit longer and I'll need more twist to stabilize.

Where I think I'd run into trouble and I don't know because I've not tested is the 115 DTAC. I'm in a relatively low elevation and low air density location. Start getting into a humid areas - there may be issues with a 105 that's not being pushed real hard. Dunno - I can only speak to where I'm shooting but a 1-8 in 6mm would make it a moot point.


Also the ONLY way to really know what your twist really is, you need to check with a cleaning rod. Things don't ALWAYS show as advertised. 1-9 might end up more like 1-9.75 and cause issues but a 1-8 probably isn't going to end up 1-10.

If rifles were spec'd the way the market wants them, they'd cost $300 including a 3x9 scope and a bag of Cheetos.

That's called the Savage blister pack model.

Just FYI, humidity actually decreases air density. The toughest conditions for stabilizing bullets are when you're low, cold, and dry.

teal,

My comment was about the 105gr as a group, not referring only to the Amax. The Amax design adapts to slower twists for the BC available, but some 105s need a faster twist, and particularly under more demanding atmospheric conditions. True, elevation is just one factor, but all of that group will benefit from a faster twist..."stabilized" is not the same as "optimized".

But as a reality check, I doubt that more than a handful or two of these rifles in 243 over their entire production run will ever see a bullet that heavy traveling down their barrels, considering that most folks in the great unwashed see the 243 as a small game or a kid's deer rifle.

On your barrel twist cost analysis, I agree with your logical points, but manufacturers don't see things quite the same way, because the scale of their operation has a dramatic effect on their costs.

Buyers need to be careful to buy their parts in quantities large enough to achieve their price point, as buying in smaller quantities can easily double the cost and eliminate their profit.

Manufacturers are after profits, we, as consumers, usually have little concern for such mundane things.

But then, these are hunting rifles after all, and not range toys, but I bet if they fixed all their twists, there wouldn't be a dry eye in the house.