Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game Can you shoot…?

shooting sticks, especially with a back rest will effectively double the distance you can accurately shoot when compared to kneeling, leaning against a tree, or off hand shots. And I will take an accurate rifle, and the confidence it instills every time.

Yep, all field positions. My original query was related to what is typical for any given person. Obviously, that will vary from one individual to another.

Well then, my answer is yes. Especially when you stretch it out and are shooting from a solid position. That and even when shooting from off-hand I think you naturally concentrate better when you know the rifle is dead on.

Off hand no. Solid rest, sticks or prone probably yes.

I hunted with dads old 06 (2.5" with everything) once for sentimental reasons, one good shot at 100 on a buck and 3 mediocre shots on a moving cow at 250. In similar shot opportunities with my 1/2 moa 7mm RM I have had more confidence and better results. I practice quite a bit out to 600 yards or so from field positions, running shots on squirrels, and dimes at 50 yards once in a while so that hitting shots when it counts is easier.

Confidence is very important in shooting especially while your adrenaline is running high and time is limited. I'm not sure an observer could tell out to 200 or so but maybe on longer shots. It is very nice to have a spotter on longer shots, particularly on elk where reactions to hits can be minimal and that kind of casual observer has less distraction than the shooter.

With all that practice I still have very little confidence off hand past 75 yards and always look for a rest even one knee is a hundred times better for me. Shooters are different I hunt with a guy who feels good off hand to 300 yards, a real advantage in taller grass or brush. My son in law always uses a tall bipod with excellent results out to 400 yards.

Off hand at any range an observer wouldn't be able to tell a difference. They would probably recommend more practice...



Prone(or even sitting with a bipod) at 400 yards I think an observer would definitely notice.


Like Pat says, confidence is key. I'm not confident past 400-450 yards so I wouldn't shoot past that range.

If you're spotting for me on steel targets you will definitely notice a difference based on what rifle I'm using.

Off hand on silhouettes? You might notice a difference but it won't have schit to do with the accuracy of the rifles.



Travis

I agree Jeff and I look at predicted impacts based on radius of the group from a mechanical standpoint. With no external conditions (shooting in a tunnel) at 400 yards our 1moa rifle will be within roughly 2" from point of aim, our 2moa rifle will be within 4" from POA. Add in 8" of wobble and the real difference is an impact between 10" and 12" from the intended point of impact despite the first rifle being "twice as accurate".

Now take a simple 5mph wind, whether someone guessed it at 10mph and its really 15 or any read was missed because it was calm at the shooting position. At 400 yards with my .270 load a 5mph wind is already a .4 mil correction (5.7" of drift). I understand wind is a horizontal dispersion issue but a 2-3mph error negates the accuracy difference between a 1 and 2moa gun.

I remember spending way to much time on a bench trying to get a rifle from X group size down to Z group size and in reality I was wasting far to much time over an issue that really did not matter. My load work ups are much simpler now and I spend my time in other aspects of being a better field shot.

The obvious answer is yes. Suppose you can hold a 7 MOA group with a 'perfect rifle' offhand (i.e. a 0 MOA rifle).

Make it a 1 MOA gun and now you can hold a 8 MOA group. Make it a 2 MOA gun and you can shoot a 9 MOA group, etc.

You may have to fire a substantial number of shots for an observer to detect the difference, but I'm pretty sure I can use a tape measure to tell the difference between an 8" and a 9" group.

If those are your big game, I hope you're using FMJs so you don't starve.

I don't think the obvious answer is actually an answer however, therefore the reasoning behind my question. What are your actual results, not what do you theorize the results should be? (Read what a couple of the previous posters wrote for clues.)

I read them, I just don't see how you can say there is no difference. What it really comes down to is a matter of sample size. It may take hundreds of shots to detect a discernible difference, but one will be detectable with a large enough sample size.

Does it matter in the field? Well, that depends on what you are shooting at, at what range, and how important accuracy is to you. To put it another way, a 6 MOA shooter with a 1 MOA gun shoots approximately a 7" group at 100 yards. A 6 MOA shooter with a 3 MOA gun shoots approximately a 9" group at 100 yards.

A 9" group is approximately 65% larger in area than a 7" group, which is a clue that the difference is hardly trivial.

I agree with all the replies.......

The brief answer to your post Mark is "no". Inside 300 yards. A bit better with a good prone field rest.

I've a TC Hawkin that goes 6" at a hundred.; And that's across a rest, and as far as I'd shoot it at game. With a rest.

I've a couple MOA rifles that are good to beyond 500, but I'm not. And that's with a rest (wind screen, ATV seat, etc).

Got me BogStcks for x-mas. Could have used them several times the last couple years after leaving the machines for a foot stalk. Looking forward to practicing with them with my MOA rifle....

If things go south it ain't gonna be the equipment's fault.

I don't think it works that way,i.e. that shooter error and rifle grouping ability are cumulative;that we add the shooter error onto the grouping ability of the rifle.

If it were, it means that, if you shoot(say) an 8" group off hand at 100 yards with a 1" rifle, that you will shoot a 16" group off hand at 100 yards with a 2" rifle.I have never seen that relationship materialize.

Shooters have this thing called a cone of dispersion.It's smaller for a more skilled shooter and will vary from one position to another,and how much support he has. In fact, he might shoot just as well off hand with that 2" rifle as he does with a 1" rifle,because both rifles are more accurate than he is from that position.

The skill of the shooter becomes a greater factor than the inherent accuracy of the rifle.

Bob, that's not what I said. Imagine you can hold an 7" group with a 0 MOA rifle. That means your wobble zone traces an 7" circle. Now using a 1 MOA rifle and tracing the same 7" circle, the 1 MOA 'bubble' enlarges the circle in every direction by 1/2", which turns the circle into an 8" circle. A 2 MOA rifle enlarges the circle by 2" in diameter, etc.

Nowhere did I say an 8" shooter with a 1 MOA rifle turns into a 16" shooter with a 2 MOA rifle. If you can shoot 8" groups at 100 with a 1 MOA gun you can shoot 9" groups with a 2 MOA gun.

^ That.

A lot of it is in my head I know, but confidence dictates an awful lot.

I am not too clear on what you consider field positions but here's a try.

Prone with a tight sling or over my pack with a hat-etc. for a rear rest yes.

Sitting with a tight sling maybe.

Sitting w/o a sling, kneeling [even with a sling-left knee is toast] and off hand I don't think so. Same for thee LW sniper stix.

I have only had a bog pod for a short time and haven't done enough shooting with it to tell for sure. With it and sitting with my back against a tree it seems really steady. We'll see more this spring.

K1500: OK even given that I misinterpreted what you said,I still don't agree with that portion of your post above. It's largely theoretical.

How "big" the group is depends on the skill of the shooter and the size of his cone of dispersion.

And the distance, and whether he has some kind of rest, which, given the opportunity he should always take advantage of, including carrying one with him.

No, I would shoot the same. Whether I hit anything might be different.

As someone already mentioned, p-dogs are an example of where 1 MOA difference can make a difference between pink mist and brown dust.

Coyotes at 500-600 yards? I'll take the 1 MOA gun.

Elk, deer, antelope, not so much.

It's ok you don't agree, but it seems to be a matter of rather indisputable elementary math. The diameter of your cone of dispersion plus the cone of dispersion of your rifle equals your realized cone of dispersion on target. I don't see how it can be argued any other way.

Now, whether it amounts to a hill of beans on a game animal is another matter. Prone with a bipod/sling/rest it would be pretty easy to ferret out the difference in a fairly small number of shots. Off hand, the difference would still exist, but you would probably have to fire lots of shots on target to be able to detect a difference, but there *would* be a difference.