Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles .338 mag vs. .340 wby mag

Blaine,
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<br>I am a simple creature. I like great bullets,to strike in a great place. That means the X (my favorite) and breaking skeletal structure (I'm a bone breaker of the highest order,that is my preferred shot)or hopefully hitting CNS in your prior post.
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<br>All of the chamberings you mention,are very good and arguements could be made for eternity. I can't produce any Science to weigh in favor of something,over another. All I have is gut instinct and that of course is very subjective.
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<br>The 338Ultra with great bullets,slams stuff in a manner that is very,very convincing. I've always liked the 375H&H and have owned quite a few. I prefer the 375H&H and my favorite was the 378Wby,but I aborted it because it wasn't S/S. So I'm the last guy to cuss 375's in general and those prior mentioned,in particular.
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<br>But when looking back and looking forward,the 338Ultra is just one hell of a sensational cartridge. It is not for everyone,but few things are. It amazes me to shoot something that accurate,of that diameter/weight,going that fast. It is an amazing combination of attributes and it is a Holy Terror on critters.
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<br>My intent was not to twist arms,because as usual,my notions are rather different than most folks and I very much understand that. I've dabbled with a lot of "big" chamberings and only the 378Wby impresses me in the way the Ultra does.
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<br>I'm thinking very seriously about building myself another 338Ultra,that is of lighter weight,for even greater utility......................
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Stixk,
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<br>If you are simple, then I am a non-argumentative guy .
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<br>I too am impressed with accuracy and velocity of my 338 RUM. It shoots as well as many smaller chamberings, and should impart a lot of "whump." It is one of my favorite rifles. Of course, don't keep them anymore if they don't achieve a most favored status (MFS). I always thought of my 338 RUM as an "any range" elk chambering.
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<br>I guess what weighs most on my mind is Mr Runyan's experience with "fast" (2700-2800 fps) 416s and 300 grain Barnes bullets on big bears. Randy Books verified this info to me on the phone last December. In the article I read he told how he had killed some 40 big Alaskan Brownies with 416/300 grain combo. He describes that combo as literally "flatteneing" these big critters with well placed body shots.
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<br>I have heard and read of many shots from 30 caliber chamberings being less than impressive on these critters. The 338 bore (from 338-06 on up) stories I've come across have described reliable performance.
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<br>Since all of my info is from "research," I was hoping you could share an experience or two on how a couple of these chamberings work in comparision to each other. I certainly don't see any of these as bad choices, but they do vary in the degree of specialization.
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<br>My "gut" feel--which is based solely on research--is that the bigger the bullet (of proper construction), of decent velocity and being well placed, the more satisfactory the results. I also see a point of dimishing returns, and the 338 bore may well be that point.
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<br>However, my "gut feel" here isn't anywhere nearly as valid as yours in this area. Now I can tell you a 300 grain 416 caliber bullet with a MV of 2750 really messes up a hog..............
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<br>Of course, all this will hopefully give Avagadro some perspective on what rifle he should buy next. I know from personal experience a 375 H&H recoils significantly less than a 338 RUM. Based on my "gut feel," I believe a 375 H&H will be better on big bears and Moose (not to mention Cape Buffalo) than would a 338 bore chambering. Therefore, it makes sense to me for him to get a 375 H&H. The 338 RUM is not an extremely common chambering outside of us rifle loonies here. I personally bought 500 pieces of brass to make sure I'd always have some if the 338 RUM never caught on. The 338 RUM takes some getting used to, where the 375 H&H is a pussycat.
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<br>However, based on your last post, it seems that you have seen ALL these chamberings work well. If that is the case, then I guess Avagadro should just pick the one that seems the "coolest" to him personally.
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<br>Blaine

Ya' know, I keep going over this same argument with myself all the time- "Self, don't you think you really NEED one of those new 338 RUM's to keep up with the other guys shooting critters all over God's green earth?" Then I keep trying to count all the times I've had a plain old .338 Win Mag fail on me when I've done my part.
<br>No matter how many times I try to count and no matter how many fingers, toes, and "other appendages" I count on, I still come up with ZERO! With 2 338's in my cabinet, I just can't convince myself that either one has let me down enough to go behind it's back and play with the bigger brother "just for fun".
<br>However, I will concede one thing to AFP's last sentence. Buying a gun just by "Cool factor" is definitely alright with me any time. In fact any reasonable justification for the latest whiz bang is okay with me as long as the kids aren't going hungry. - Sheister

Sheister,
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<br>Is it still okay if the kids just go a little hungry?
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<br>Blaine

Cool is coolest,when the coolest works best.
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<br>That's cool!...............

Blaine-
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<br>Hypothetically speaking...
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<br>if it were me and I had both with me a .375H&H and a .338Ultra stuffed with 210 X's and a big beautiful black bear appeared in front of me at 310 yards...I'd definately choose the .338 Ultra!
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<br>...hypothetically speaking of course because who would have both rifles with them?
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I think I have the world covered with my .338 Win. Mag. and my .375 H&H, especially everything that Alaska has to offer. I have yet to take my .375 H&H bear hunting with me.

Spike wrote...
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<br><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr><p>if it were me and I had both with me a .375H&H and a .338Ultra stuffed with 210 X's and a big beautiful black bear appeared in front of me at 310 yards...I'd definately choose the .338 Ultra!<p><hr></blockquote>
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<br>At those ranges, I can see the preference for the 338RUM, but that's the only reason.
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<br>Let's face it, using the bullets of equal construction, at velocities which result in complete penetration (and most likely an exit wound) there is no reason the larger caliber would not be a better choice.
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<br>The 210gr .338 "X" bullet has a S.D. of .263 and a B.C. of .471.
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<br>In .375 caliber, the 250gr "X" bullet is listed as S.D. of .254 and the B.C. is .450. Slightly worse numbers than the 210gr .338 bullet. But, at 270grs, the .375 bullet is listed at an S.D. of .275 and the B.C. is .503. Those numbers 'beat' the .338 bullet.
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<br>I'm not into the number game myself, but I know some of you quote them frequently. Just thought I'd look them up and post them here.
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<br>It may be possible, to bring the 338RUMs great velocity advantage into the equation, and there is something to that, but remember these bullets are going completely through the animals, so not all that 'energy' is being used.
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<br>In fact, I'd venture to say that in the pure 'charging bear stopping mode' it may better for a bullet not to pass completely through the bear. In the 'stopper' mode, a blood trail means nothing. Having the bullet break as much bone as possible, dumping 100% of it's energy into the animal, and ending up lodged under the far side hide may be the best possible result.
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<br>That might make an interesting debate?
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<br>Just for more info, I'll mention again the details of my brown bear hunt a couple weeks ago. My buddy shot the bear with a 338 Win Mag loaded with 230gr Fail Safes (factory load) from about 90-100 yards. I suspect that woud be near equal to 338RUM velocities at 300 yards?
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<br>That bullet entered the bears left eye socket, traveled through the head (missing the brain), part of the lower jaw, the neck, into the chest area, through the body, and ended up buried in the right rear leg. No major bones hit. The bear was still standing when I shot a second later. Although it had turned 90 degrees to it's left, and was looking to escape into the nearby treeline.
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<br>While it's probably more due to it's injuries than anything else... When it was hit in the chest with a .416 370gr bullet at a measely 2100fps (or so) it hit the ground immediately. That bullet did exactly what I described above. It dumped all that energy into the body and 'stopped' that bear in it's tracks.
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<br>Don't get the wrong idea guys! I also want a super-duper' 338 caliber rifle for black bear hunting. But in my own opinion, there's still no substitute for cubic inches (or big bore bullets) when it comes to knocking these critters down right now.
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<br>Now that I've stirred up the hornets nest, I think I'll run for cover!

BW,
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<br>What condition was the skull in after skinning that hoss? Was it messed up pretty bad from the bullets path?

Spike,
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<br>I guess a guy needs a Caddy,so as to have the Ultimate Iron at his immediate disposal?!!? That's funny.
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<br>Long story short,I already gutted one of my 375H&H Ackleys. That thought would had never crossed my mind,UNTIL I built my 338Ultra and saw what she'd do........................

Stick, what do your 338 UM's weigh? I'm curious. Being another simple soul (sure!) I don't like my rigs to weigh over 8.5 lbs "all-up" (this would include 375's). I can't imagine a 338 UM's recoil being anything but obnoxious in a rifle of less than 9 lbs... what's your take on weight in a kicker like the 338 RUM?
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<br>Brad

Well guys,
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<br>I've been reading these posts and learning a great deal. Let me set the record straight ... I'm a single graduate student and have no children that will go hungry. I enjoy having nice rifles that shoot accurate and just by dumb luck have been able to fall into three which I like a lot and got great deals on. My Weatherby Sporter (.300 WBY MAG), Tikka Continetal (.22-250), and my newest arrival the Beretta Mato (7mm Rem Mag). All purchased new and less than $500 (except the Weatherby which was at $700). For the next 3 years rifles in that price range are the best I'm going to do. So with that said, now everyone knows my kids won't starve.
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<br>As far as cool goes .... wouldn't be real cool to own a .338-.378 WBY?? Not many of those floating around. I kicked the idea of "building" a .338 WM from the point of getting a cheap on in ADL format and going from there. But Rem doesn't make an ADL that big ... only the BDL's .... now that SUCKS . Relplace parts slowly stock, trigger, barrel and such .... but at the same time having a rifle that could always be taken to the range. I fear I do not know near enough about this trade to attempt just buying an action and going it from there. But I do have two local gun shops that are real good (IMO) and probably get help there. Actually the building interests me the most ... now that would be cool to tell others ... "I built it " Reading these posts has me looking into the .375 H&H. Not much out there in .375 that is at a reasonable price (my definition (<$600).
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<br>But then again I'm not in any real hurry. Gives me stuff to think about.
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<br>Once again thanx for all the great input!!
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<br>George
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Avagadro- What's field are you pursuing in grad school? Just curious. I'm chasing down an MS in ecology.

Why mess around? You can get a CZ-550 416 rigby for ~$650. Being as the 416 Weatherby is essentially a belted 416 Rigby, you can load this up to truly insane levels of mojo, me thinks 300 gr @ 3000 fps, and .416" before expanding!

I'm in the Analytical Chemistry PhD program at Texas A&M working in the area of Secondary Ion Mass Spectrometry (SIMS).
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<br>I went and looked at a CZ the other day (it was a 30-06) I thought the trigger was horrible ... can they be worked to remove the creep? The stock was really crude ... but it did have decent wood that I feel I could refinish and make pretty nice. Or perhaps (may the god's tradition strike me down) put a nice synthetic on it. Do any of the companies make tupperware for this rifle? How do they shoot?
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<br>Just curious
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<br>George
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The CZ's have a single set trigger. Try pushing the trigger forward to set it, then see how you like the "hair trigger" release.
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<br>Plastic is available for them, but I have never investigated them, as I have an aversion to plastic stocked rifles, though I did just purchase a Benneli Nova, so perhaps I'm a bit of a hypocrit.
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<br>All I've heard is that the CZ's are accurate to very accurate. As I recall, one 416 owner shot a 1/4 moa group with his.
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<br>To the original thread, I'd take a 375 H&H over a hot 33 bore for big bears. It really depends on where you are hunting as to long range shots, but I can think of many more good reasons to shoot inside 250 yds then past that distance. I can also see a 375 being a more conservative choice then a 33, and the H&H being more pleasant to to shoot then a hot 33.

I tried the single set trigger ... It took 3 tries before either me or the salesman could get it to work. Overall it seemed like a pretty good rifle (except the trigger). If I knew those could be worked I think it would be a worthwhile rifle to me to look into.
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<br>Thanx
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<br>George
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Is there an ADL action that would work to make a .338 WM? ...is the .300 WM action be the same and could it be used to build a .338 WM ?
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<br>Thanx
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<br>George
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Yes, the actions are the same.
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<br>2nd

Can a person buy just an action new, if so what is the cost as compared to a whole new ADL rifle? Or do you have to get lucky and find someone who is looking to sell that type of action?
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<br>Thanx
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<br>George
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