Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles I wuz warned...

...not to mess with an AR trigger. By rost495 in particular, if my memory serves me.

Daughter #1 shot my Ruger .308 Scout and Hawkeye .280 Rem last time she was out here and decided she wanted to hunt elk with the .308 because the trigger was nicer. I tried to convince her the 16.5" barrel and velocity loss might not be ideal and the .280 might be a better choice. To help her change her mind I did some more work on the .280 trigger (best to take these things in small increments IMHO) and now it is even nicer than the Scout.

While I had the Dremel out I decided to see if I could further improve my AR triggers as well. Both the RRA 5.56 and S&W .300 Blackout came out nice but the S&W .300 BLK developed a new problem - if the trigger was pulled with the safety on and a round chambered and the safety was subsequently moved to the 'off' position, the hammer dropped. Not good...

The problem was I had reduced sear engagement on both rifles. On the S&W it turned out to be a bit to much. When the trigger was pulled with the safety on the sear would disengage. The hammer bottom now had more of a spiral shape than a round one and as the hammer rotated the trigger would contact the increasing diameter of the hammer, stopping its forward motion. When the safety was then released, the rear of the trigger would rise, dropping the front and allowing the hammer to continue on its journey.

Short version, I'm now in the market for a new trigger. I plan to spend the coin for a relatively nice one with little creep, probably in the $160 to $200 range. Don't need or want a competition trigger but don't want a combat trigger, either. Something in-between will do nicely.

If I like it I might get two, one for each AR.

Suggestions?

I like Timney 3 pounders.
Drop in, tighten allen head screw to pull assembly against pins, and your done.

Its hard not to tinker. I know that big time. Learned my lessons on the AR due to surface hardening.

Even learned it twice the harder way, PAYING someone that supposedly knew wtf they were doing.....albert turner plano TX. LOL.

We all learn one way or the other.

Really no loss, want a better trigger you have to buy one. Thats about it.As long as you don't pay quite a bit for someone to tune a stock one that will eventually either fail or burp on you.

Good luck! Jeff

PS I'd advise trigger, but I have only the knowledge to like 2 stage ones and most that are not used to those, have a tough time with em.

Some men learn by listening
Some men learn by watching
Some men learn by reading
And some men learn by whizzing on the electric fence!

For that price I'd look at a Geissele G2S if you wanted a two stage trigger.

In a single stage you could be well off with a ALG ACT trigger with a lighter spring set in it. That could be had for $75ish.

BD, which ALG ACT trigger/spring set would you put on your work rifle?

thanks, mike r

For a work rifle I'd just shoot it like it is. I shot one recently and was really impressed with it for what they cost. It'd be a good option for someone who just wants a less gritty and less creepy factory trigger.

But it seems like everybody wants a 3-4# trigger and it'd need lighter springs for that.

ETA: I wouldn't know what spring set to get. I've never used any aftermarket springs but I think some guys here have.

if its lighter trigger spring, just bend em.. worked for years..

What I don't get is folks that tweak something and then when the spring wears some, or the surfaces mate in better or such, complain after 10K or 100K rounds the trigger ain't what it used to be... DUH>.. neither is the compression on your engine or other....

Thanks, that is exactly what I needed to know. I will order one soonest.

mike r

I just bought a Geissele DMR, and will be taking out a SSA. I'll make you a deal on it, if you like.

And yeah, I decided a long time ago if I have one burp and had to explain it, I'd just say that I bought it like that

A good deal on an SSA is never a bad thing.

Dibs on the SSA (If I may).

BMT

Unless you are a qualified gunsmith, what made you think to do that?

You ever work on your own vehicle? Have you ever painted your home? Done any plumbing repair?

That should really qualify someone for gunsmithing.

The point I'm trying to make is that people do tons of things they are not "qualified" to do, so it's not so surprising that he might try to work on the trigger of a rifle. As is often the case when people do such things, he'll now have to pay for his dalliance.

The thing about working on things, trying things, is that it often pays off...you find out you can do things. In a way, it's the basis for innovation and the improvement of our standard of living. If no one did anything they where not "qualified" to do, we'd all likely be worse off. It's not like he was asking someone else to pay for his mistake.

I don't consider myself a qualified gunsmith either.

But I'm not stupid, i can figure out mechanical things, I can play with them, and I can follow You tube videos or 6BR forum instructions...

Of course I don't have a lathe etc.... but folks can do things like change spark plugs, etc... in fact I knew nothing about motors to speak of but feel confident at this point with playing with them, that I could totally rebuild one sans the machine work, myself with no issue.

Not a mechanic at all though, but about to take out the soleniods and valve body from my transmission and replace.....

PS he "ruined" a POS trigger anyway, not like there is any loss involved... LOL..

Dremels were probably designed by gunsmiths to increase business profits. If I was a gunsmith I would be a dremel dealer and offer frequent specials on them at the local gunstore.

The gunsmiths at work throw themselves across their benches when I enter the shop. I could mess up an anvil w/ a rubber hammer.

I recently painted my Tikka t3. If being unrecognizable as a firearm defines camouflage I did a good job.

mike r

Are you happy with the paint job? If so, its a non issue to anyone else...

Happy? kind of, proud no. I finished it off w/ some krylon textured outdoor furniture point which took off the gloss and greatly improved the grip so it was a success.

Some of the paint jobs I have seen on here are truly works of art. Mine not so much.

mike r

pitchers, please.

If you needed it dulled to hide it from game, then if its dulled, its good to go.

for me, its HOW it works, not what it looks like.

I agree, form follows function.

Ready, no pictures, I am a luddite when it comes to these computer thingys. My last foray to photobucket produced nothing but anger and frustration.

mike r

Sorry, too late!

Not a gunsmith but a trained machinist. Haven't earned my primary income as one in the last 30 years doing machine work but I did have a small manufacturing business that provided a nice supplement.

The S&W M&P-15 trigger was better than the one on my RRA LAR-15 trigger when comparing them as they came from the factory. Both sucked when compared to good triggers, though. I worked on them both 2-3 times, incrementally improving them. This last go-round was just a bit too far for the S&W due to the way the S&W trigger is cut on the rear, which allows more movement when in the 'Safe' position.

Over the years I've reworked most of my rifle triggers and some of my revolver triggers. All came out much better than they left the factory and until the problem with the S&W trigger, none were ruined.

Worst case, or maybe best depending on your point of view, I figured the fix for the S&W factory trigger was a $12 replacement part. (I actually ruined the hammer not the trigger, but it would probably still work in my RRA LAR-15.)

On the other hand, I figured if I screwed it up it would be a good excuse to buy a decent aftermarket trigger. A used Geissele SSA is on the way. Color me happy.

Correct.

Much scarier was reworking the trigger on my S&W Shield M&P .40S&W.
Youtube videos to the rescue, along with my Dremel, machinist's training and a pretty good mechanical aptitude. It went from long, a little heavy and clunky with some gritty spots to long (take-up) and much smoother and lighter. When dry firing now the front sight still dances a bit but far less than before.

Recently I've also worked the triggers on my two Ruger Hawkeye actions, an All-Weather .280 Rem and a .308 Scout. Both were relatively OK from the factory but much better now - smoother, lighter and less creep.

Sent my Ruger MKII in .223 Rem back to Ruger a while back, trying to get a factory fast-twist barrel on it. Ruger didn't have a suitable barrel but they did 'fix' the trigger which had previously received my attention, restoring it to factory specs. First thing I did when I got it back was restore it to my specs. Mucho bettero.

Best part is none of this or any of my other trigger work cost me a dime. I did pay a gunsmith to rework the off-the-12-pound-scale trigger on my Browning BDM back in 2000. The gunsmith did a good job on the trigger but bent one of the legs of the hammer spring to help reduce DA pull weight, making booms an iffy proposition. I called Browning and ordered a new spring, which I installed myself. That was the last time I paid a gunsmith to work on a trigger.

I respect your machine shop experience but not your reasoning. But worst case is someone dying because of a bubba'd trigger. Those parts should be destroyed.

In this case, no one is going to die because of a "bubba'd" trigger. The problem was immediately detected during functional tests following the work, with upper still removed. The trigger will be replaced long before anyone, including myself, loads live ammo and fires it.

The gunsmith that worked on my Browning BDM, however, gave it back to me in a condition that could easily have resulted in someone dying when, in time of great need, it failed to go 'boom'.

Wow. Pal. Have you ever heard of the only gun safety rule that ever needs to apply?

Its not only tinkered with parts that "fail".... keep that muzzle where it belongs, we'll all get along!

rost495 -

With all due respect, you lost me on that one. Of course I know the rules and of course they can prevent unintentional deaths, "bubba'd" trigger or not.

Did you read my entire post? The trigger and hammer are being replaced (with a Geissele SSA). Once that happens the "bubba'd" part (hammer) will be hard pressed to cause a death.

LOL, quick reply.. I was replying to Pal, hence the Pal. LOL.

His quips about danger and such... As long as you follow muzzle control the rest doesn't really matter in regards to safety. And we should all be cognizant of muzzle control.

FWIW if it makes you feel better, could not talk my buddy into spending money on a better trigger so took his out, cleaned it up a hair, threaded through the pistol grip, added a short set screw to take some creep out, bent the trigger spring legs and lubed surfaces... its lighter, creeps still too much for me. But its better.

Thats abotu all I can say... ugh...

This thread can get as bad as the damn fire forming thread... folks that have NO clue how brass forms to chambers... screaming the end of hte world if you fire a 7 rem mag in a 7 wtby gun...

WTF, all my 257 wtby brass is stamped 7 Rem mag....

All my 6.5-06AI brass says .25-06. The fireform loads, if anything, are safer than my full-power AI loads.

Glad to know you were responding to pal. I was beginning to think I was getting slow between the ears.

i am slow between the ears..... as such one of these days you may get PM with machinist questions... now if you were only closer to thread all my muzzles... LOL

Don't forget, we all have to learn what we can't do.

Hey, I'm one who tried the bobby pin in the wall socket. But I don't recommend it.

Wasn't a bobby pin but I recall being sent to my room for a nap, pulling a cord part way out of the socket and touching the prongs on the plug.

I think I was 4 at the time.

The incident left quite an impression for me to remember the doctor's visit and bandages nearly 70 years later!

The Geissele SSA showed up last night but Tex forgot to send the disconnector. That should be put in the mail today according to Tex.

I went ahead and installed it in my S&W M&P-15 .300 Blackout, sans the missing disconnector of course. Can't live fire the rifle but I have dry-fired it quite a bit. The SSA is exactly what I wanted - a pull long enough (about .15") to discourage unintentional discharges but one that is light and very smooth. Not surprisingly, the break is crisp and while I've learned about where to expect it, it still comes as a surprise.

Sure makes the mil-spec triggers feel like crap.

ugh. Can't stand trigger movement. Glad to know the SSA comes with creep built in. That way I won't buy one of those ever.

I still personally think that 2 stage is the way to get great triggers in the AR.

But I still want to try the single stage?? Gold just to see.

The SSA is a two-stage. The take-up is in the first stage. Geissele calls it a combat trigger but it will do fine for hunting and targets.

AH, I got it. I'll call Bill first before I order one. He and I go way back.

The shame of it all is that all our current guns have nice triggers in em.

But there are quite a few lowers laying around that need to be built up some day....

I have an Armalite 2 stage Tactical I like. only $100.

kwg

+1 I like mine for a hunting rig

Funny story about that disco. Not exactly about triggers, but interesting...

I'd had no idea it had gotten separated from the trigger. Mailed the trigger, hammer, & springs to you, then went to work on a Leupold Mark 6, which I had put on an AR-10. The top turret has a zero stop function, and to re-adjust it you must loosen 3 little setscrews. I loosened one of the #6 screws too far, and it fell out before I could catch it.

I searched, and searched for over an hour, in my rest/cleaning station/tool box for the screw - which is how I found the disconnector. I picked it up, didn't recognize it, set it aside, then picked it up again wondering what the hell it was, and finally set it in a safe place. That's how I was able to find it so fast, when you asked about it

After looking & looking for the screw, just about everywhere in the room, I finally wondered if it fell into the rifle. Shined a light in the ejection port, and between the locking lugs and chamber, I spot a silver glint. A magnet retrieves the teeny-ass setscrew, and I finally get the scope fixed.

I was pleased to find the disconnector, thanks to the damn dropped setscrew. I was also really pleased the screw didn't wind up in the chamber - or barrel

tex -

The disconnector arrived today and I installed it as soon as I got home from work. It changed the feel of the trigger and there is now a little creep on the second stage where before it kept me guessing. Still, a very good trigger for my purposes.

So much for the S&W .300 BLK, now to get a good trigger for my RRA .223/5.56...

I put the Geissele DMR trigger in the Mk12. Spendy rascal but certainly seems nice.