Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles Speed, Accuracy, Terminal Performance???

Another way to look at a question such as this is: "How much confidence do you have in your bullet if it lands 4" from where you had wanted it?"

Will it work as you hope if it hits a major joint or large bone?

What will happen if it angles through that dense, browse-filled paunch instead of landing tight behind the shoulder?

Accuracy,terminal performance, and velocity. All three combined make a pretty good combo! I see retained bullet weight after impact as the key element of terminal performance. The primary reason I've used Barnes X's since the early 90's,though in the early days accuracy was sometimes a challenge! memtb

I don't worry about those things because I planned it that way.Matter of fact lots of times I aim for those large bones...

To me, that's a good argument for having shot placement and accuracy at the top of the list. Of course, not all your shots will be perfect but now we're at a dangerous precipice, looking right over the cliff at "raking shots......."

What's the old adage about the "best" bullet not being very good if it's not put in the right place?

I like taking out shoulder bones too. That's why I like Nosler AB's and partitions.

Guess I have to add a little more than my first post.

I tend to laugh every time I read a thread where somebody's asking about his handload for an upcoming hunt, and people chime in with: "Just use whichever bullet is most accurate in your rifle." And the advice is for a moose hunt! What the hell difference does it make if the rifle groups into 1/2" or 2" on an animal the size of a horse?

Plus, I've yet to run into a scoped, bolt-action rifle that doesn't shoot SOME load into 1-1/2" for three shots at 100 yards. Due to sometimes having to "field test" factory ammo, I've used plenty of loads with that sort of accuracy, and taken plenty of game with them at ranges from 300 yards out to 450, and NO bullet has ever landed in the "wrong" place because of the "lousy" accuracy. Once in a while the wind pushed one a little off, or I did, but the problem wasn't the basic accuracy of the load. While it may be common for some hunters to shoot animals well beyond 500 these days, most don't, yet they have trouble sleeping when their deer rifle won't group into 1/2".

Other hunters insist on using super-premium bullets even on pronghorns or Texas whitetails or other animals not big enough to stop any 150-grain bullet from a .308 Winchester unless shot lengthwise, and maybe not even then. They say they do this because the bullet doesn't always land in exactly the right place. I have yet to encounter a premium bullet that kills animals when it lands in the "wrong" place, and my wife and I have killed a number of BIG deer with Hornady Interlocks and Nosler Ballistic Tips and other such bullets and rarely recovered any of them. Offhand I can remember Eileen putting a 139 Interlock from a .280 through both shoulders of a big Missouri Breaks mule deer, and the bullet kicking up dust on the far side. What the hell more do we need? (Of course, that load did average around 1/2" to 3/4" at 100 yards, highly critical when shooting 250-pound mule deer at 250 yards.) I've also shot lengthwise through a good-sized pronghorn buck with a 150-grain Ballistic Tip from a .308 Winchester.

Speed is often nice, especially in open country, but as long as muzzle velocity is enough to open the bullet at any range I'm gonna shoot, whether 200 yards with a .30-30 or 600 with a 6.5 of some sort, then it isn't really critical. High ballistic coefficient and a faster twist makes up for a lot of muzzle velocity, both in wind drift and expansion.

All of which is why I said it depends on the rifle and the game!

Marketing, marketing, marketing.....

Its new and improved, not new and "crappier than ever".


I'm convinced that the technical aspect of most of this schit is so similar, gains so minimal, and "advantage" so slight that it has to be blown out of proportion to convince a fella that what he has is sooooo inferior and he will completely fail with the same product that previously was his saving grace.


That is, until the next one comes along.


Stay behind the wave, run at 90%, and reap the rewards........

(Typed from my iPhone 4. The same one some zit faced idiot camped on a sidewalk to have first. Only to be given away)

Actually, assuming the shooter can hold 3" at a hundred yards (assuming quick field shooting here), then the 'typical' difference using the RSS calculation is:
.5" rifle= 3.04 typical error
2" rifle= 3.6 typical error

Thus a ~.56" difference in accumulated errors. My take away is that I worry much more about MY shooting skills than a .5" here or there of rifle/bullet accuracy.

Very true on the shooting skills, especially if you're shooting off-hand. With a solid rest and some more distance it's a different equation though. Anyway, I don't believe that was the question........if you open it up to what's most important in general, for a lot of hunts being in good shape or having good boots would be right up there with shooting skills.

When developing a load lots of times there's a clear-cut choice between speed and accuracy. Your most accurate load may shoot bug-holes but be a couple of grains below max. Your max load may be 150 fps faster and pretty accurate but not as good as the accuracy load.

Some guys want to stretch MPBR but with the equipment we have to correct for elevation, speed is less important (to me anyway) than accuracy.

I don't hunt moose and stay away from bullets with a reputation for blowing up so in that sense I suppose terminal performance is already accounted for, but with all the good bullets to choose from it's just not that big a consideration.

Having said all that my favorite load to hunt with shoots a 350 grain bullet at about 1600 fps into 3" at 100 yards with open sights.....

1/4" group gives me more confidence than 150 FPS.

I have always wanted the most velocity first...safely of course. I have yet in over 50 years of hunting not been able to find a load for any of my rifles w/the most velocity and acceptable(1-1 1/4)inches. I like the moderate cartridges like the 250Savage, 257 Roberts, and 7x57. With these guns I want to be able to sight in 3in high w/no more than a 4in rise above bore. This helps me make a hit at the longest ranges possible. I like to take as much guess work out of longer range shots as much as possible. The most velocity helps me do this. powdr

IOW, do you say accuracy is critical, but terminal performance and speed are fine as long as they are simply adequate?

I look at what should work in the way of speed and go from there. If I get an accurate load right off the bat I'm done! It's pretty easily done with noslers,swifts and hornady's. I want to try woodleigh's but hard to deviate from bullet's that work every single time as advertised!

In whatever order you want them...if a hierarchy is important to you. Another way to look at it is, 'are you willing to sacrifice one element in order to improve another?'

-Would you switch to a less ideal bullet in order to get a 1/4 MOA improvement?

- Would you switch to a bullet giving less pressure in order to get more speed?

- Would you just load an Interlock and call it good? (For lack of space to name all the possibilities.)

For light big game (deer /antelope), Accuracy, speed (for flatter trajectory and less wind drift) then terminal performance ( fairly easy to kill).
For larger big game terminal performance, Accuracy (elk are big and usually shot with in 250 yds. in my way of hunting) , then speed.
Just how I see it....

I want it all and will keep playing with stuff til I figure out how to get it.

Just load a good bullet, and call it good.

Damn, now you pulled out all the hard to answer questions on my azz . I'd load a Hornady interlock or Nosler partition and rock on. I will always get the kind of accuracy I'm searching for, even with "blemished" bullets from SPS. Sometimes I leave the chrono at home and say fu ck it. I'll load some up and see what shoots the best. Load development is not rocket science.. I'll see how fast/slow they run the next time around. Bass ackwards to some, but I don't see too many here shooting the groups (with hunting bullets) I do either... Just how I roll the fu ck out of it . You guys know how many bg animals haven fallen to the all mighty 22lr???? And yet, we debate the merits of "speed, accuracy and terminal performance"... Use what works best for you, is my best suggestion...