Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Zero cops killed by Obama's 'bad' ammo

The White House claim that the ammunition for the popular AR-15 rifle should be banned as part of a “common sense” effort to protect police officers’ lives is being derided by police officers themselves as a shameful lie.

White House spokesman Josh Earnest said this week that the .223-caliber M855 ball should be banned because it can penetrate an officer’s soft armor and can be fired not just from sporting rifles but “easily concealable weapons.”

The term “easily concealable” was used to describe the AR-15 handgun. A bulky 6 pounds and 25 inches long, the semi-automatic version of this weapon, with a magazine, would be difficult to conceal, say firearms experts. And it would likely not be the first choice of any street thug or gang member, as it retails for between $1,000 and $2,000.

In fact, gun-rights advocates and law enforcement agencies contacted by WND say they have been unable to document a single incident in which a police officer has been taken down by a criminal using an AR-15 handgun in the 20 years since this particular round, the M855 ball, has been exempted from the federal ban on armor-piercing bullets. It was exempted based on its use for sporting purposes.

“We have not been able to find a single instance where a police officer has been shot from this type of handgun using a bullet that pierces his soft-body armor, and if the administration had any examples you know they would be pushing it in everybody’s face to further their executive action,” said Alan Gottlieb, executive vice president of the Second Amendment Foundation. “We’ve scoured everywhere, gone into every source possible to try to find an instance of this and have not been able to find one.”

So Earnest’s comments only further infuriated gun owners who were already seeing red over the possibility of losing access to some of the most common ballistics used for sport-target shooting and hunting.

WND polled several large police agencies, looking for evidence that vest-wearing officers have been killed or seriously wounded by this particular form of ammunition fired from a handgun, only to come up empty.

“Not in my jurisdiction,” said Sheriff David Clarke Jr. of Milwaukee County, Wisconsin. “We’re doing a search nationwide to see if there’s any data that exists as proof of this comment coming out of the White House, but so far we haven’t found anything.”

Clarke said he was skeptical that the White House was really concerned about officer safety.

“I’m disgusted that this administration would use the safety and well-being of our nation’s law enforcement officers to accomplish their gun-control agenda by circumventing the Congress and circumventing the Constitution in rewriting this law,” he said. “That’s all this is. They don’t fool me. No fraternal order of police, no sheriff is going to fall for this.”


http://www.wnd.com/2015/03/zero-cops-killed-by-obamas-bad-ammo/#kZX3lVz81jGLM3uD.99

Watch for a fast and furious moment. They've said it's dangerous, with no instance of it ever being used...soon they'll be cops getting shot with it left, right, and center.

I don't care much for M855 for what I shoot, and how I shoot.

However, this is just a ploy to gain further gun control, and more than that, it's a test of the waters to see what they can, and can't get away with without proper legislation.

If they get away with banning this, what's next? Ballistic Tips? Hollow points?

Anyone that falls for the "police are in danger" because of this ammo has never seen what a 30-06 does to any body armor police are likely to wear.

Nothing more than liberal gun control. Period.

Aside from expolosive varmint bullets, and maybe even those, I think most 223 will punch through the light vests that cops wear.

It isn't about anything factual. It is about CONTROL!

This. Period. And dont forgot it. and dont forget to tell people this.

True, most if not all are only rated for handgun (true pistol) rounds....the heavy/tactical ones are too heavy to be practical to wear all the time.

The enemy isn't concerned about facts.

My point on the matter is that if they can arbitrarily ban one type of .223 ammo, they can ban them all. Throw in the Encore to make things very interesting. I'm not sure how much good it will do, but I'd make my voice heard on this no matter what you shoot or what you think of the black rifles.

I believe there's an exception for single shot pistols.

With this precedent they can ban all .224, 7.62x39, .308 (M1 carbine and 300BLK pistols) and 6.8/.277 bullets.

Right, but if you can arbitrarily ban ammunition because it will penetrate body armor that is not designed to stop it, what is to stop you from arbitrarily removing the exception? We are living in lawless times, as far as the power structure is concerned. Look at the ACA, it's been arbitrarily changed so many times that you'd be hard pressed to tally the instances. It's federal law, just like the gun laws. I'm not trying to cause a panic, I'm just pointing out the reality we currently live in. If they can just arbitrarily change federal law that effects ever single person in the country, the ACA, do you think they'll blink at arbitrarily changing federal law that only a handful of "right wing extremists" can even technically speak to?

Hell, if you want to kick it up a notch...why not just have a Soros type start a firearms company that produces multi shot handguns in every popular round. No one has to actually purchase any of them, or use one in a crime, they just need to be available. You could accomplish this with less money than it cost to purchase a low tier congressman.

Good point. Take a Browning BAR or Rem 742/750, give it a pistol grip and shorten the barrel and sell a couple. Bye bye 243 through 338 bullets.

Or an AR10 pistol for all short action cartridges. That one would probably sell more than a few.

And there aren't many calibers that you can't chamber in a Saiga.

I gotcha.

Take a Bond Arms type derringer and CATALOG it for every round known to man. I could do this in my garage. I suspect you get the idea. It would be a hell of a lot more "concealable" than any iteration of an AR pistol I've witnessed.

Don't forget that once the Camel's nose is inside the tent the rest can be "Executive Ordered"

That's 'cause even criminals ain't dumb enough to think an AR pistol is a good idea.

Reagan supported keeping civilians from having ammunition. Good enough for any Conservative.

Did someone step in something?

There are or could easily be pistols that shoot every type of rifle ammo. So this argument could be easily used to ban all rifle ammo.

There is not much point in listening to you spout lies like this one. Are you ever going to say anything of value?

i still think it is a two edged attack. One on the 855, the other environmental restrictions on lead based ammo.

Gee, no surprise there. This is just a blatant ban for the sake of a ban. AP is just an excuse and it's a lame excuse. Not only does M855 not meet the military's requirements for AP (they have a separate AP round), but it doesn't even meet ATF's definition. This is pure politics, and it's a blatant attempt of our POS anti-gun Administration to ban ammo, just to ban SOMETHING.

anything lead banned for environmental.

anything mono or tipped banned because its armor piercing.

hmmmm

Yep!

Just for chits & giggles I ran a search on the Huff post for M855.

Executive Order M855

Just keep telling the lie long enough and it will become the truth.. [bleep] lawn jockey..

I'm sitting here thinking...I can't think of any bans the ATF has done in my lifetime that made the public any safer.

Reagan wasn't lying and neither am I for relaying His words.

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=37785


Statement on Signing the Bill To Regulate Armor-Piercing Ammunition
August 28, 1986

It is a pleasure to be able to sign into law H.R. 3132 to ban the production or importation of the so-called cop-killer bullets, which pose an unreasonable threat to law enforcement officers who use soft body armor. This bill, similar to legislation jointly submitted to the Congress by the Departments of Justice and the Treasury in 1984, recognizes that certain forms of ammunition have no legitimate sporting, recreational, or self-defense use and thus should be prohibited. Such action is long overdue.

During the 61/2 years that I have served as President, I have sought to strengthen law enforcement in this nation and to do everything possible to protect the lives and safety of the dedicated men and women who constitute our first line of defense against the forces of lawlessness. I am pleased, therefore, to sign H.R. 3132 to ban armor-piercing ammunition as this legislation has long had the strong endorsement of our outstanding law enforcement organizations, including the International Association of Chiefs of Police, National Sheriffs Association, Fraternal Order of Police, International Brotherhood of Police Officers, Federal Law Enforcement Officers Association, National Association of Police Organizations, National Organization of Black Law Enforcement Executives, National Black Police Association, National Troopers Coalition, International Union of Police Associations, Police Executive Research Forum, Police Foundation, Police Management Associations, and the Major City Chiefs.

In signing this bill, I want to urge those States and localities that have not acquired body armor for their law enforcement officers to obtain such lifesaving equipment for their officers. The use of soft body armor is credited with saving the lives of more than 600 officers since it was first introduced in the 1970's. An even more important message is the one I have for law enforcement officers: If you have access to soft body armor, please use it. Your lives and safety are too important to risk needlessly. The fabric used in modern soft body armor is truly a miracle fiber, but it is useless if left in the dressing room locker or the trunk of a squad car.

In signing H.R. 3132, I am giving our law enforcement officers my pledge to do everything possible to eliminate the hazard posed by armor-piercing ammunition. Those officers who in the past may have used the threat of armor-piercing bullets as a justification for failing to wear soft body armor should no longer have that excuse. We are doing our best at the Federal level to enhance the safety of police officers but must have the cooperation of the officers themselves to secure the full benefits of this important legislative action.

Note: H.R. $132, approved August 28, was assigned Public Law No. 99-408.
Citation: Ronald Reagan: "Statement on Signing the Bill To Regulate Armor-Piercing Ammunition ," August 28, 1986. Online by Gerhard Peters and John T. Woolley, The American Presidency Project. http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=37785.

But it could. Like bans on machine guns, short barrels, certain dogs, drugs, and everything else.

The ban on legally owned in 1986 was a solution in search of a problem. And the war on drugs...well there's a success story...NOT.

It all works well. Look at how supportive the Nation's police are in the enforcement of those laws.

And of course we support NFA34 & GCA68 due to the NRA stumping for both laws.