Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting New Guy... DIY elk hunt in Colorado!

Hey so I am new, 1st post new. Not new to hunting, but I am new to Elk Hunting. I have several units I am looking at for OTC right now, units 74,65 and 63 in 1st preference order. A little a bit about myself, I am a fire fighter and work out most of my time. I have kids so they are a work out on its own as well, I love camping and mostly hunting. I watch my buddy bring back an elk from colorado and spent less than 1k total which blew me away. I have hunted whitetail and the prices here in Texas are just out of this world. I am thinking about unit 74, due to the statistics it has the highest success rate out of all of em. I know its my first hunt so Im not expecting anything at all except for a sweet camping trip but I do want an opportunity to connect with something. I want to stay in Miners Camp Ground and go east to Silver Mountain, my buddy connected at 54 but wants to try 74 as well so he will come with me. Together we have gear, guns, glass and stamina (I know will be tested but were ready. What do yall think about this idea?

Elk hunting is like a drug, once started you will never want to stop.
If you fail to heed this warning, you will find yourself addicted and most likely you will pass the addiction on to your kids.
You have been warned , so I can only wish you luck.

Where there is a will, wisdom will find a way. Sounds to me you are doing your home work. You have a buddy that has already ,been there and done that. There are guys on here that know the areas and will probably give you some pointers. Hope it all works out for you. Good luck.

They don't come any better.

Thanks guys, if anything it will be a pretty sweet camping trip. All in all I cant go wrong being in the mountains. I came back from Breck a month ago and i fell in love lol.

2 things I learned when living in Colorado:
1. Pre-scouting is meaningless. Very easy to find elk out of hunting seasons and not so easy during hunting season as in I never ever saw one over the several seasons I hunted there.

2. You cannot learn the density of hunters in pre-season scouting. When you think you found a good accessible hunting area, everyone else who is upright with a pulse found it before you and is waiting for you to arrive.

I never grew up with this type of hunting so it was extremely demoralizing for me, as it taught me in one lesson, the difference between a population of 20 million that largely does not hunt compared to the US.

As a total failure, the best advice I can give is to use any hunters you see as a driving tool to the most inaccessible places you can find. I hunted Aussie deer by seeking out the nastiest of landscape and using ears and eyes instead of feet. The dark timber is the equivalent in elk country. Pockets of shelter, shade and adjacent to feed areas is where I would scour.
John

Welcome to the fire. It appears to me that you've done your homework and have realistic expectations. You seem to already know that elk hunting percentages are lower than deer in most states. Lots of people DIY elk hunt in Colorado and some with consistently good results. You seem to recognize the importance of physical conditioning but there is no way to prepare for the altitude. The best advice I can give you about that is to stay hydrated and if you drink alcohol do it very sparingly. I had some guys up working on a fire a few years ago and I kept telling them they weren't drinking enough water. We ended up sending two of them to the ER for IV's. What I didn't know was how much beer there were knocking back every night. We're coming up on the deadline for license drawings, you might want to consider applying for a cow tag. You may not have a chance in hell of drawing, but you will gain a preference point you can use in future years. I wish you good luck and I can't speak to the units your considering, I've never hunted in them. There are lots of us here who can help you with general questions and will be happy to help. CH
P.S. Aussie Gun Writer's advice is spot on. All scouting will do is allow you to see the country, not bad thing, but don't expect what you find as far as critter's to be the same when the sun rises on opening day, it'll be a new world.

Keep trying.

Yes physical conditioning is huge in our department and it has become just a part of our life thanks to it. I found out how elevation can be at Breck when we took a ride up to 13k ft and was sucking air harder than I ever imagined lol. But since last month I have been adding alot of leg excersices to help aliviate any issues there And I bought a high altitude mask to train with. I hardly drink anymore which makes me sad but I just dont have time nor the money, id rather go elk hunting than drink beer like I use to.

ballfroguy:

I sent you a PM containing an article regarding elk hunting in Colorado. The other repeat participants on this forum are tired of reading it, but there might be some useful info for you.

KC

bfg - read KC's article and do what he recommends - he won't steer you wrong and will save you a bunch on the ole learning curve.

Thank you. I dont mind some good reading!

Good advice here but I would not write off pre-season trips 100%. The thing they're good for is to get you familiar with the country, access, places you can camp, etc.

But once the season starts, even in a place you've hunted before and know well the number of hunters that will be in any given area is hard to predict.

This is why (IMHO) it's very important to have a few different areas scouted out--if one has too many hunters one year, go on to the next.

Sounds like you have a plan. Your first season in an area will have a steep learning curve. Any chance to get out there in advance and look for long term elk sign (well used trails, old rubs and wallows) will be beneficial. If you see an area, such as a large bench in black timber, that looks like too much work to get there, that's probably where you want to go.

I have hunted both 74 and 65, between the 2, 65 is better. 74 is tougher hunt at least where we hunted. both of these are tough by Colorado standards by the DOW we contacted. the higher the success units the less public ground. I started going in 87 and it ruins you for any other hunting. make sure you have a hand held GPS and go have some fun. don't forget to have chains for all 4 tires.

Will you please PM that article to as well? Thank you.

PVT:

It's on the way.

KC

Do you have access to a long flight of stairs? If so start pounding on them now. I mean until your legs are on FIRE. Then repeat daily until your trip. And many times hiking back DOWN the mountain is the really hard part! Good luck out there!!!

KC, I would also be interested in reading the article if you would be so kind to send it to me. Thanks.

The check is in the mail.

hehe, pretty much spot on. Living in the elk mountains I have a pretty good idea of where a lot of the herds roam and can usually spot them 95% of the time all summer and during archery season, but as soon as rifle season comes they won't be out in the open. They'll still be in the same areas, but they'll be in the dense timber and you'll have to go in to find them. Good luck catching one out in the open during daylight hours in rifle seasons though.

AussieGunWriter and BDKeg are telling you some wisdom here.

As a resident I often hear/and talk to guys in the field during hunting season - all of them comment on how they cannot believe how many hunters and trucks there are hunting in the same unit. When they scouted, and looked at the stats they never thought it would be like it really is. Even the Division of Wildlife will tell you the most often mentioned complaint on harvest studies is - too much hunting pressure.

Last year ...I saw on one forest road - 83 vehicles. And this is an area of hunting that is less than 7 miles of hunting land.

You know how many had elk hanging in their camps? One.

I'd say there has been some great advice already given to you. Fitness and health are big ways to start helping tip the scales in your favor. Scouting and time in the field are also necessary for utilizing your hunting time more effectively. And you should expect that most people have the same info you do. All the map work is out there. Google earth ect. There are no secrets these days. The difference between you and the other guys is that they might know (from experience in that unit) where the pressured elk run to, and hide. And the really successful hunters will already be laying in wait in those areas.

The best advice I can give you, is to look into the Ranching for Wildlife program in December for cow elk. It is the highest success ratio you can find. It will take a preference point or two, but when you draw you will see elk, and better yet have a very good chance on harvesting one.

As far as general units, your expectations of a nice camping experience filled with hiking with your weapon...THAT is a great way to look at it.

The last bit of advice is to find an area, and really stick with it. Every day out will teach you something, and eventually you will start learning how to run into more elk.

I am late as usual but I would love to read that article too KC. Please send it to me.

Welcome to the group.
The first time you kill an elk, especially a long way from the road, it'll all euphoria. The 2d time, now that you have a bit of experience, it won't matter how good of shape you're in. You'll look at that huge pile of meat, look in the general direction of the road, do a quick calculation, and say something like 'Oh sxxt. What have I done."

Yup.

Especially when this greets you:



Had to quarter him as he lay - couldn't get him turned around or out of that pile. It sucked.

Kinda reminds me of a moose my partner shot 10 or 12 years ago. He was standing between 2 big rocks. When he went down, he just dropped and wedgeg between the rocks. You couldn't get a hand in on either side. 2 men couldn't work on him at once. It was a case of start on top and bone to the bottom. It took him about 5 hrs to bone it.

BallFroguy,

First, welcome to the Fire, there's some great folks here. I know you've said you've hunted before, so I don't think dressing your game in the field is anything new. There is a technique that I've seen Colorado Elk hunters used that is banned in Arizona called the gut-less method. You did say you were is good condition and you worked out; dressing your animal in this fashion does make it easier (IMHO) to packing your animal out. Have a good time and get you some!!!

HaYen

Why would AZ ban gutless dressing?

I've done a bunch of elk and a couple moose boneless. There's no doubt that it saves a bunch of work and time. It comes with a big 'however', though. I've become convinced that boning meat before it's cool and stiff causes it to be much tougher. Every one of the elk I've done that way have been tough. For the best meat, I prefer to keep the corpse whole until it stiffens up if at all possible.

LOL, I kind of agree , but I like working with animal carcasses instead of a corpse! I like to hang the quarters whole overnight and bone them out just before I load 'em in the pack, but that still leaves the backstraps and I've had some that were tougher than they should have been, after being cut out right after I killed the animal. Tenderloins have been good though.

If the gutless method is illegal in AZ, I'd be interested to hear the rationale on that too. I just read through their regs and didn't see anything pertaining to that. The only new reg that was close prohibited the import into the state of any spine or brain material to prevent CWD.

I have seen the difference in the toughness of back strap when compared to gutless method and traditional. The legs,I leave the bone in. However, as a disclaimer it is pretty hard to say there is a direct correlation because one year you may kill an old elk and the next year a young one or cow vs bull

I remember as a very young kid when my Dad would always remind us that the meat is a hell of a lot tougher when there is none.

Maybe I should just say 'the deceased'?

I'm calling BS on the gutless method being illegal in AZ...if it is, I've been in violation on 2 bull elk I've shot there, as well as a coues deer.

I got checked by a warden on 1 of the 2 bulls I killed and they never said anything.

R12-4-305
Possessing, Transporting, Importing,
Exporting, and Selling Carcasses or Parts of
Wildlife
A. An individual shall ensure that evidence of legality
remains with the carcass or parts of a carcass of any wild
mammal, bird, or reptile that the individual possesses,
transports, or imports until arrival at the individual’s
permanent abode, a commercial processing plant, or the
place where the wildlife is to be consumed.

An issue with gutless is guys who get lazy and leave too much meat on the carcase. Idaho used to require that the meat even be taken from between the ribs but they've dropped that one.

I agree it's hard to generalize, but I remember one particular mule deer buck that I shot right before dark and cut the backstraps out and quartered while the muscles were still quivering.

I hauled the straps and TLs out that evening but hung the quarters in a tree, boned 'em out the next day. It was only a 3 year old buck but those straps were the toughest I've ever had, while steaks cut from the hind quarter were tasty and tender from the same animal.

Colorado does not require neck meat as there are lymph glands there that also hold CWD tissue.

I fillet out the ribs, the little bit of meat between the ribs is mostly sinew and fat.

Idaho does require the neck meat to be taken but so far CWD hasn't been found here.

I am curious and puzzled by the comments about meat being tough after boning while still warm. I have done this for years - since I pack meat out on my back - for elk, deer, sheep, goat, and antelope, even bison (the quick boning that is). Compared to the rare whole-animal retrieval and hanging the unboned carcass, I have not noticed a difference. I have only experienced one really tough animal after this treatment and that was an old post-rut worn out bull with no remaining body fat. That bull was tough everywhere, even after extra aging on backstraps.

A few have commented on tough meat, but no one has mentioned how the meat was handled between boning and arrival on a plate. Do you age it, freeze it immediately, cook and eat it immediately...?

Seems meat frozen within a day or two of death will be tough when you thaw it out since aging was truncated. But if you allow it to sit refrigerated for several days after thawing it, aging picks back up and it is much more tender.

I generally try to age steaks the equivalent of 2 weeks (adjusted by temperature and time before I get it under refrigeration). This is on meat I bone out as soon as possible because I want to get the meat away from the carcass quickly where a griz may show up while I am gone - or even before I am gone. I have not had any trouble with meat being tough when handled this way.

What are y'all doing to the meat after boning?

I was told many years ago, and have experienced, that you should let the meat go through rigor mortise before cutting it up, 1-2 hours. I killed a young whitetail close to camp and the fire was already going, we put the tenderloins on the fire and were eating within 45 minutes of the bullet flyin. Had the best flavor I've ever tasted but it would've been easier to chew on my boots.....

Our meat is either put in a walk in d cooler for two weeks, or some less if it has hung in camp for awhile. Still see difference in back straps that had the spine left in and hung vs not.
I killed an old bull back in 2009 and it took me 5 years to eat it. Ended up grinding most of it in a little kitchen grinder as we needed it. However, even the grind was tough.

@BuzzH - I'm not calling BS on the fact that you checked with the Game Mangers, I believe you. But what I did was called and spoke with the Game Manager for unit 9 at the time and he said no. He said no after asking me what about the rib meat? I said "it would stay in the field". He said no; I'd be sighted for wasting a nature resource. Now I could go back this year and say Buzz spoke with a Game Manager and he said yes I could, but then he could come back and say "no, I'm the boss" Then I'm screwed and fined. So with all due respect, I'm going to listen to what the game manager for the unit I'm hunting says about the Gutless method. :-(

HaYen

What difference does it make if you leave the guts in,or out while you cut it up?

Lots of misconceptions out there on the gutless method..There isnt a single edible part of the animal that you'd have to leave behind, not counting heart/liver of course.

The internal meat is easy to get out after everything else is done. To get the heart, a quick session with a saw will cut loose 2 ribs. Then I cut the belly to let the gut roll out enough to get the liver. With the gut pressure off, its easier to cut along the spine to get the tenderloins. No, that isn't gutting it. Its just a single cut on the belly after all the meat is off.

There are several advantages of gutless. One is a simple matter of time. Why bother gutting when you're going to bone it anyway?
Next is the mess. Gutless gives you a clean work space.
Then there's the question of why are you gutting in the first place? To cool the meat? Take a look at how much meat is in contact with the gut. Very little, actually. To get the maximum amount of meat exposed to the air the fastest, spend the time skinning, not gutting.

Rock Chuck pretty well covered that. It is a whole lot easier working without trying to stand in all that blood.

Sounds to me like AZ had a
regulation that required recovering rib meat. That doesn't mean gutless was banned.

as far as I'm concerned gutless is the ONLY way to get meat out if you hunt in the mountains or backcountry. traditional takes too long and whole carcass is for road hunters and east coast hunters.

Im gonna try this gutless method next month on a hog. I know its not an elk but I wanna try the process.

Years ago, we would split the spine with two hand axes. One heck of a lot of work.

[video:youtube]X4kJIrW1IDM[/video]

Gloves. My skin gets very dry and cracks from blood if I don't wear gloves. The best I've found are these Playtex Handsaver gloves. They're heavier than the cheap latex and will last through several animals if you don't cut them. They have fingers that will grip wet meat. They have cuffs to protect the shirt sleeves. Best of all, they come in XL to fit my large hands. Under $3 anywhere that they sell cleaning stuff.

Mine will normally go in a cooler on ice for up ta 4-5 days, then in the fridge for a few days before I get it cut up, wrapped, and frozen. Then let it thaw for a few days in the fridge before cooking.

Worse thing if the meat freezes within 72 hrs which will "cold shorten" the meat= very tough. Rigor mortise begins about 3 hrs after the kill. Larger sections take longer. A few years ago I had to grind an entire bull for it froze solid the night after the kill (-20F). Best to keep meat unfrozen for at least 3 days before freezing.

Article on Game processing.
http://www.wyomingextension.org/agpubs/pubs/B513Rpdf.pdf

I have 2 120q ice chests... is that enough?

Cold shortening can happen any time the meat is cooled too rapidly. It doesn't have to freeze. The conventional wisdom in hunting is to skin and get the meat cold as fast as possible. However, for the most tender meat, that's not necessarily the best way to go. The trick is to hold off cooling for a while. Of course in warm weather, thick meat can take too long to cool and start to spoil. In cooler weather, though, postponing skinning until the meat goes into rigor mortis will make it more tender.

This is the problem with gutless dressing. I've done it many times and the meat always comes out tougher than if I wait to bone. In doing it gutless, the hide is pulled off and the meat cut when hot. As it rapidly cools, the fibers will shorten and that makes them tough. If it's left on the bone until rigor mortis sets in, it can't shorten.

Yes, that's enough.

What do you guys know about colorado trail 553 off of dry fork trail. It take it in pretty deep into the forrest. Just wondering if anyone has gone thru there.

If anyone has hunted 74 please pm me. I have a plan, I dont want your honey hole or gods country area I just wanna known if what I have planned is a good idea.

Hey so I started thinking I forgot about elk calls. Ill be going second season and bought and cow elk call, should I invest on a bugle? Best practices?

There could still be a few bulls bugling in 2nd season.I'd invest in 2-3 more differrnt cow calls though to get some variety

Please purchase a bugle! We have to keep those call manufacturers flush. And its a good warning sound to veteran hunters that you're in the area.

I personally haven't met a rifle hunter who believes elk bugling unless they physically see the bull making the sound. The majority of bugles during rifle seasons are other hunters following poor internet/magazine/forum advice.

No place in the Colorado rifle seasons for bugling unless you are hunting private land.

Techniques....I'd suggest only using a cow call in rifle season if you have a visual on the elk and are trying to stop them for a shot. Otherwise leave it in your pocket until you actually see elk.

Pressured elk (during rifle season) make very little noise unless they are in a big herd, or just got busted out of cover by a threat. Generally they keep fairly quiet and are not very responsive to calling. There are always exceptions, and mine is just one opinion.

KC if you don't mind id like the article as well, a young friend is making his first trip this year.

I carry a cow call but don't use it in normal conditions 3rd season. The gutless method is the only way to go, faster and much easier for one person.

Check to see if there are leftover cow tags at the end of this month if you want to bring home meat. The leftover drawing is one that you have very good odds of drawing. I take the hide off as fast as i can after i lost some meat that was laying hide on in the snow.

The suggestion of having several targeted areas is a good one. If you see a fresh bull track heading for the thick stuff always assume he is still in there and alert - that sound of opportunity leaving when you crack a twig isn't a good one.

One of the keys to success for my partners and I has been mobility.

When I first started hunting we would go high and set up camp, then hunt within a few 2-3 miles of camp. Success rates were low.

Then we started camping lower and driving further to hunt. Success rates sky-rocketed because we could hunt where the elk were rather than where we were.

For me the purpose of pre-season scouting is to familiarize myself with the lay of the land. Couple that with information available online about migration routes and general knowledge of elk needs and habits and you can often predict where the elk will go when hunting pressure moves them and weather gets the migration going. We've taken quite a few elk in open sage country when they were migrating through.

So did you draw 74?
All-in-all I think unit 74 is one of the most interesting locations in Colorado. However, I’m a little surprised to hear that it looks good for statistic success.

For more than 15 years Unit 74 was the go-to area for my group each year. Years ago when 74 was moved from the B-list to the A-list we all felt it was no longer the best option for us and we’ve been Nomadic since then. My guys felt there were still a lot of places in Colorado that we had not explored. Unit 74 rewards those who earn it but it is no panacea.

I have taken an elk on the Dry Creek Trail that you asked about and also one on the Colorado Trail nearby. Be aware that Dry Creek Trail is a major equestrian hunting departure point and the Colorado trail will have mountain bike traffic. These are wide, well-used trails. I’ve also taken elk in Perrins Peak area, the Strawberry patch, Graysill ridge, Hermosa Peak, Dutch Creek, Junction Creek.

The places where we’ve had the most success and the places I would recommend are not the same. I’ll explain.
Two herds are identified in 74, the Hermosa Creek herd numbers several thousand and the Strawberry patch herd is several hundred (of course neither really forms up until late in the migration process). Bear in mind that since this unit is so far south there will always be some of the small family groups that will remain independent of those herds. There was traditionally a predictable late season migration that passed through that Dry Creek area you are considering hunting (and Junction Creek). Sadly, an enormous amount of development along 160 and a series of warm dry winters might have really changed that by now. I wonder how many of that current generation of elk still have that migration path imprinted. A lot of the success that we had early on was from early storms or by intercepting the elk migrations. I killed numerous elk in Perrins Peak, Strawberry patch, and Junction creek but timing is critical in those places. In our later years there we found that getting to the higher altitudes was a much more reliable and dependable way get into elk. The high altitude strategy has been reinforced further since we’ve been hunting new areas each year. Nothing separates you from other hunters like climbing and the elk live by that. The Miners Cabin/Silver Mountain area I hunted only one evening and I did spook out an elk but have no further experience there. If I was to return to 74 (and I hope to one day) I’d check out Coal Bank, Molas, Hermosa Peak, Pando, Big Lick, Jura Knob, and the area above Silverton. Those are all places that are likely to have elk in their home range and not too many other hunters. Places like Big Lick and Jura Knob are places where you could put in a spike camp and have a reasonable chance at success every day but I would not recommend that strategy. You could have a luxurious camp near your vehicle at Molas, Hermosa Park, Hotel Draw, or Lime Creek and be able to check out several very cool areas in the week or so you would be there. Unit 74 is a unit where it really is nice to do afternoon and evening hunts in a variety of places because there is so much to experience there.
Keep a camera handy.
I hope it is for you what it was for me.