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Campfire Ranger
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I did a load workup using the Berger 215 gr Hybrid in the 30-06. This bullet has G1 BC .696, an G7 BC .356. Needless to say it's one of the top long range .308" bullets available. I used Norma brass for the workup as it's relatively thin and soft. It shows pressure signs right away. Here's the nuts and bolts, Rifle Rem 700 action Douglas #7 1/10 twist 22.5" barrel McMillan A2 stock SWFA 12X MRAD scope Load data and velocity/accuracy. Accuracy was based on three shots at 100 yards, measured center to center. Velocity numbers are speed measured 10 yards in front of the muzzle with a Chrony F1. 30-06 moly'd 215 Berger Norma brass CCI 200 primer 3.45" OAL 30-thou' off lands Reloder 17 54.0 gr - 2640, 2644, 2648 - .207" no signs of excess pressure 55.0 gr - 2701, 2695, 2701 - .252" slight bolt stiffness, slight ejector mark 4000-MR (all loads compressed) 3.48" OAL, bullets touching lands 59.0 gr - 2711, 2709, 2660 - .580" no signs of excess pressure 60.0 gr - 2752, 2733, 2723 - .850" light ejector smear 61.0 gr - 2786, 2770, 2771 - .602" stiff bolt, ejector smear I was impressed with the accuracy using RL-17. I loaded up a batch using the 54.0 gr charge, for long range testing. JBM suggests they will hold 1100 fps to 1900 yards in local atmo. Here are a few pics, ![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v461/montanamarine/Shooting/P3090007%201024x767_zpskfcqbcs7.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v461/montanamarine/30-06%20Targets/P3090056%201024x539_zps0ndeiscw.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v461/montanamarine/30-06%20Targets/P3090057%20847x1024_zpsyzg2ttcj.jpg) I met up with Broz and we took the 30-06/215 Berger to distance. We fired at 985, 1195, 1498, and 1767 yards. Conditions: Temp 55F, 3-10 mph wind fron 2 oclock, 4300 ft el. Accuracy/consistency were very good out to 1498 yards. At 1767 the wind was pushing the bullet around. Our target was a rock 8" tall, and 12" wide. We put close rounds all around it, well within 12", but couldn't claim any hits. I'll try it someday when wind is near calm. ![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v461/montanamarine/Shooting/P3110011%201024x798_zpsewmlhhbv.jpg) Here's a little video clip of our 1198 yard shooting at a rock about 6-8" in width/height. First shot was off to the right about .4 mils, after a wind correction, the remainder were awfully close, or hits. Not too bad for a small target at that distance, with a little wind thrown in. https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=852474868108888&pnref=storyShane
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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Very nice. Those should sing in my 06, barrel is RCH shy of 26"
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Member: Clan of the Turdlike People.
Courage is Fear that has said its Prayers
�If we ever forget that we are one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under.� Ronald Reagan.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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"Ready......Yup"
Good shooting Shane. I'm jealous of all of that space to go stretch things out.
Mike
God, Family, and Country.
NRA Endowment Member
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Nice, got to love the ES for the R17 load.
That is a lot fun!
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Campfire Ranger
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I think my chrony is a little slow.
Actual come-ups with the 54 gr RL17 load at all distances indicated true velocity was closer to 2700 fps.
I was overshooting all the targets on the first round by 3/10 mil.
After shooting all the distances, I came back to the 1198 and shot the vid.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Overcast days give the truest chronograph readings.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Nice work. I have the 35P but ordered the LabRadar a month ago. Due in May.
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Campfire Member
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I need to get some rel 17. Have been playing with the 210's and rel 22.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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That makes the '06 into a brand new cartridge…
John
If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Impressive results from a "standard" cartridge! The 06 still gets it done close and far. Nicely done MM.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Bryan Litz has some of the Michigan F-TR team members shooting the 215 hybrids out of a .308Win...
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Campfire Ranger
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I know a fellow shooter here in MT shooting the 215s from his 308 too.
I did some limited handloading with the 215 in a 308 myself, a while back. I was surprised to get 2600 fps from a 26" 308, with the bullet seated at 3.10" oal. Surprisingly, it shot fairly well too from the 1/12 twist barrel.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I have a very early 700 long action hanging around. Maybe it needs to become a med-heavy 30-06. A McMillan Marksman stock and a #6 barrel. Or a Palma type contour.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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I had a 300 win mag build in the works but may just go with the 06 or 08?
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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These modern LR bullets breathe new performance into everything.
Depending on how fast you want to go, and barrel life.
I'd guess roughly velocity/bbl life on 26" bbls,
300 WinMag - 2950 fps, 2500-3000 rounds
30-06 - 2750 fps, 6000 rounds
308 (long throated) - 2600 fps, 8000-10,000 rounds
With a BC of .696, they will all make 1000+ yards look like cheating.
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Campfire Tracker
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Shane, nice!
Wish you could make it up here in April....
Luck....is the residue of design... ![[Linked Image]](http://i423.photobucket.com/albums/pp311/patrickgsinclair/96zvyt.gif)
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Campfire Ranger
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Pat, Right now I'm not planning on getting up there this time, but I will down the road.
Your shoot is really a great way to put equipment and shooter to the test.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Would I need a special twist to be optimal. It appears a standard 10 twist works just fine?
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I've used bullet from 110-240 grains with excellent results, with 1/10.
That said, I'm at some altitude (4000 feet in the valley), and I wouldn't promise the same results at sea-level, in cold temps....I just don't know.
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Campfire Tracker
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Nice velocity #s for the 06 for sure.
Thanks for sharing a good piece of work.
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I did a load workup using the Berger 215 gr Hybrid in the 30-06. This bullet has G1 BC .696, an G7 BC .356. Needless to say it's one of the top long range .308" bullets available. I used Norma brass for the workup as it's relatively thin and soft. It shows pressure signs right away. Here's the nuts and bolts, Rifle Rem 700 action Douglas #7 1/10 twist 22.5" barrel McMillan A2 stock SWFA 12X MRAD scope Load data and velocity/accuracy. Accuracy was based on three shots at 100 yards, measured center to center. Velocity numbers are speed measured 10 yards in front of the muzzle with a Chrony F1. 30-06 moly'd 215 Berger Norma brass CCI 200 primer 3.45" OAL 30-thou' off lands Reloder 17 54.0 gr - 2640, 2644, 2648 - .207" no signs of excess pressure 55.0 gr - 2701, 2695, 2701 - .252" slight bolt stiffness, slight ejector mark 4000-MR (all loads compressed) 3.48" OAL, bullets touching lands 59.0 gr - 2711, 2709, 2660 - .580" no signs of excess pressure 60.0 gr - 2752, 2733, 2723 - .850" light ejector smear 61.0 gr - 2786, 2770, 2771 - .602" stiff bolt, ejector smear I was impressed with the accuracy using RL-17. I loaded up a batch using the 54.0 gr charge, for long range testing. JBM suggests they will hold 1100 fps to 1900 yards in local atmo. Here are a few pics, I met up with Broz and we took the 30-06/215 Berger to distance. We fired at 985, 1195, 1498, and 1767 yards. Conditions: Temp 55F, 3-10 mph wind fron 2 oclock, 4300 ft el. Accuracy/consistency were very good out to 1498 yards. At 1767 the wind was pushing the bullet around. Our target was a rock 8" tall, and 12" wide. We put close rounds all around it, well within 12", but couldn't claim any hits. I'll try it someday when wind is near calm. Here's a little video clip of our 1198 yard shooting at a rock about 6-8" in width/height. First shot was off to the right about .4 mils, after a wind correction, the remainder were awfully close, or hits. Not too bad for a small target at that distance, with a little wind thrown in. https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=852474868108888&pnref=storyShane From the Alliant website, 51 grains is listed as the maximum for a 200gr. Speer. And you are loading 54 and 55 grains with a 215? This is a classic argument for the use of a Pressure Trace to show just how overpressure you are.
You can piddle with the puppies, or run with the wolves...
Better living through chemistry!
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Campfire Outfitter
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Good to know I will take that into consideration.
Also if I do not use non moly on the 215 how will this affect pressure if any since I have never used it?
Thanks.
Last edited by Esox357; 03/24/15.
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Campfire Member
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I did a load workup using the Berger 215 gr Hybrid in the 30-06. This bullet has G1 BC .696, an G7 BC .356. Needless to say it's one of the top long range .308" bullets available. I used Norma brass for the workup as it's relatively thin and soft. It shows pressure signs right away. Here's the nuts and bolts, Rifle Rem 700 action Douglas #7 1/10 twist 22.5" barrel McMillan A2 stock SWFA 12X MRAD scope Load data and velocity/accuracy. Accuracy was based on three shots at 100 yards, measured center to center. Velocity numbers are speed measured 10 yards in front of the muzzle with a Chrony F1. 30-06 moly'd 215 Berger Norma brass CCI 200 primer 3.45" OAL 30-thou' off lands Reloder 17 54.0 gr - 2640, 2644, 2648 - .207" no signs of excess pressure 55.0 gr - 2701, 2695, 2701 - .252" slight bolt stiffness, slight ejector mark 4000-MR (all loads compressed) 3.48" OAL, bullets touching lands 59.0 gr - 2711, 2709, 2660 - .580" no signs of excess pressure 60.0 gr - 2752, 2733, 2723 - .850" light ejector smear 61.0 gr - 2786, 2770, 2771 - .602" stiff bolt, ejector smear I was impressed with the accuracy using RL-17. I loaded up a batch using the 54.0 gr charge, for long range testing. JBM suggests they will hold 1100 fps to 1900 yards in local atmo. Here are a few pics, I met up with Broz and we took the 30-06/215 Berger to distance. We fired at 985, 1195, 1498, and 1767 yards. Conditions: Temp 55F, 3-10 mph wind fron 2 oclock, 4300 ft el. Accuracy/consistency were very good out to 1498 yards. At 1767 the wind was pushing the bullet around. Our target was a rock 8" tall, and 12" wide. We put close rounds all around it, well within 12", but couldn't claim any hits. I'll try it someday when wind is near calm. Here's a little video clip of our 1198 yard shooting at a rock about 6-8" in width/height. First shot was off to the right about .4 mils, after a wind correction, the remainder were awfully close, or hits. Not too bad for a small target at that distance, with a little wind thrown in. https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=852474868108888&pnref=storyShane From the Alliant website, 51 grains is listed as the maximum for a 200gr. Speer. And you are loading 54 and 55 grains with a 215? This is a classic argument for the use of a Pressure Trace to show just how overpressure you are. The 200 gr Speer is not the 215 hybrid. I have been told the 215 has a short bearing surface, which allows it to be pushed faster than a 210 VLD. Plus moly is definitely reducing friction, which is allowing more powder. I used Shane's advice on another forum and pushed the 208 gr amax to 2600fps with RL 17 24" 30-06 non moly.
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Campfire Member
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Has anybody tried IMR 7828 in 30-06 and heavies? My manual is showing pretty good velocity for a 200gr, actually on of the highest velocities for all of the loads listed in 200gr and up..
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I was getting some signs of pressure at 55gr. 54 gr was what I loaded up for LR shooting.
Every barrel is different, as are bullets. My barrel has somewhere between 4000-5000 rounds down it. That is a factor too.
I wouldn't suggest anyone start where I finished, that would defy common sense. Start low and work up.
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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FWIW, I played around a little with Rel 17 and the 200gr Nos. AB.
54grs. got 2740fps out of a 24" Win 70 classic factory barrel. 53grs was running 2670fps.
Terry
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Campfire Tracker
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I am a believer in that heavy berger now. I have put cases of Sierra 168 downrange and watching MM sling those Bergers yesterday it transforms a .308 into a completely different rifle at long ranges. It was a bit of a shock to see how much less drift it needed than "normal" .308 loads.
Hunt hard, kill clean, waste nothing and offer no apologies.
"In rifle work, group size is of some interest...but it is well to remember that a rifleman does not shoot groups, he shoots shots." Jeff Cooper
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Those were actually the 208 Amax I was shooting out of the 308 yesterday. The 215 Berger is even better than that.
Either way they are a big step up from the traditional 168/175 FGMM loads.
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Campfire Outfitter
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I have an extra Rock creek 9.33" twist in a rem mag sporter if someone else needs one. I hope to have my other one chambered in 30-06 soon.
Bb
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Those were actually the 208 Amax I was shooting out of the 308 yesterday. The 215 Berger is even better than that. Pretty much the reason Litz preaching to use them at 1000 yard matches. You can miss judge the wind value by a few mph and have a scoring ring cushion (shooting a "10" instead of a "9") Bryan loved the 185gr Jugs (which do well out of a 12 twist barrel) until he designed the 215gr bullets.
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Campfire Tracker
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Good info on the 215, Shane.
Do you or Broz have an idea of minimum velocity for expansion on critters like deer or elk? I recall some expansion tests awhile back and the tips were getting bent at 1900 fps (no expansion).
At 1498 yards, I'm thinking you were really close to the ~1340fps transonic threshold. They seem stable beyond that distance or was the wind causing problems?
Jason
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I believe the 215 was stable past 1498. At the mile it would have been retaining about 1150 fps give or take. All indications were that it was stable, as it was responding to corrections, and missing very close on a small target.
A mile is tough to get right, even a 1 mph error in wind call is very unforgiving. The 215 gr VLD at 2700 fps MV would be drifting approx. 18" per 1 mph wind at a mile. The target was only 12" wide.
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Campfire Ranger
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There's a reason a 36" gong is a popular 1-mile target.
We chose smaller so we could spot splashes more accurate and a hit would come from a very good data point.
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Campfire Tracker
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Good stuff Shane. Thanks again.
A bud's son has been shooting the 215 for nearly a year now. Dang near catches my old 300 Win load at 1000 yards shooting the 200 NAB at 2950fps. Lot of performance for the recoil.
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Good stuff indeed. Great post, thanks!
Golden............
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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What do you guys think the best platform for launching 215s is? 30-06, 300wm, or 300wsm?
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I'd say it just depends how fast you want to go. The 215 will bring out the best in all of them
With a 26" barrel you are looking at about:
30-06 - 2750 fps
300 WSM - 2850-2900 fps? (a guess)
300 WinMag - 3000 fps (Broz shoots this combo a lot, with H1000 powder).
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Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
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You guys have my curiosity peaked!
I have never had the 210Vld much higher than about 2550fps in my 30-06.
My recently completed project rifle has a 30" Shilen match select barrel ( palma taper), and a rem700 blueprinted action.
Choate custom tactical stock. Soon to be rebedded into my Cadex Light strike chassis.
I am eager to give it a try out past 1000, and eventually to 1760.
I have this action fitted to multiple barrels, so I have lots of load development to complete! So much fun to be had, so little time to do it! Lol!
At this point, the 215 hybrid isnt available here lately. I will have to keep my ears open to find some!
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Campfire Ranger
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God, Family, and Country.
NRA Endowment Member
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MontanaMarine,I get some really good velocity and accuracy with n560 in the 30-06 and a 208gr amax(naked).just wondered if you did any pressure testing with this powder.i would also be interested in your opinion of this powder in the 30-06.I am quite satisfied,but now the grass may be greener on the other side,after finding this thread.
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SawDoctor,
I've never tried N560, but it is one of the top velocity potential powders for heavies in the 30-06, per QuickLOAD.
I was interested in trying it but it seems to be seldom available locally and I'm not willing to pay the hazmat fee for a pound or two to play with.
Shane
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No worries Mountain Marine.quite satisfied with n560 and heavies,the downside to this powder is price.50$/lb(ouch)Reloader 17 is about 35$ and gets the same result by the looks of it.I may have to pick up a pound and try it out.
Is pp4000mr a ball powder?Never even heard of it before this thread.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Great info MM
Thanks for sharing it.
THE CHAIR IS AGAINST THE WALL. The Tikka T3 in .308 Winchester is the Glock 19 of the rifle world. The website is up and running!www.lostriverammocompany.com
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Campfire Ranger
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4000-MR says it a spherical powder on the bottle. It looks kind of like stick powder with rounded ends.
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Good stuff MM.I appreciate it.
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