Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Favorite Jet Fighters:

Pete
Some of the Migs could also make a run at a U2, but like your Electric lightening the couldn't sustain the 65,000 feet. Now the U2's ceiling is quite a bit higher than 70,000 feet. I know what wiki says, but it ain't right on the U2s altitude capability. While it was like a kid running and jumping as high as he could reach, you fall down. That was the Migs and Electric Lightening. The U2 continued on at the altitude for many hours. The Electric Lightening is a good plane, but not trying to intercept the U2.
By the way, the old Canberras are still used for reconnaissance by the USA.

If you read the article you will see the U2 was intercepted successfully a number of times by the Lightening. Could both planes fly higher? Sure..Given the Lightening could be pitched up to 87,000' I think sustained flight up to 70,000 or so wasn't unrealistic..

The real limiting factor for the interceptions would have been radar detection of the U2..

It was thought at the time that Soviet radars could not track anything above about 65, 000' so that may have been why that altitude was chosen for the trials? Plus the higher the U2 flew, the more dangerous it was, so perhaps the trials simply did not justify the added danger?

You mention the Canberra..that originally had a published operational ceiling of 48,000' to 50,000' depending on the Mark, but in 1957, the RAF managed to get one up to 70,000' and set a then world altitude record..Again, a big difference to an operational ceiling but still quite a feat for the day..

Prior to the U2 becoming online, the RAF flew a number of overflights of the Soviet Union in the Canberra, and in one case a plane sustained damage from enemy fire but managed to get back to friendly territory safely; sadly a taste of things to come with Powers..

Edited to add, the very first fatal U2 crash was with a RAF pilot at the controls and it was during training in the US. A handful of RAF pilots were trained to fly the U2 and did fly recce missions..

Apparently in some sort of legal/political gesture, before the flights commenced, legal ownership of the U2 was transferred to the British Government and it was then transferred back to the US on landing! I think British operational flights were stopped after the Powers incident, at least officially anyway..

To me, nothing has ever had as good of lines as the ole Falcon...

Such a lithe, little thing...

Always liked the looks of some of the Saabs, as well. Kind of dig the canard thing...

I saw an F-14 pilot once go inverted with a Russian Mig, don't tell me the Tomcat isn't a fighter.

As a far as pretty fighters it's hard to beat the Grumman F-11F Tiger or the Hawker Hunter.

The EE Lighting was indeed a piece of work. I had a CO who had attended the RAF Empire Test pilot School as an Exchange officer. He did his graduation thesis and flight test on the Lightning. On that flight, they towed the jet to the end of the runway, he started, launched from Boscombe Down and went over the channel and accelerated to something over Mach 2 and slowed to subsonic and returned to Boscombe Down and landed with a low-fuel light. Total flight time? 13 minutes.

As far as favorites, while flying the the TA-4J in flight school was indeed a treat and certainly one life's great experiences but it's not a fighter. When it came to heading feet dry onto bad guy country I loved having Tomcats aboard. You knew with 2 Phoenix, 2 Sparrows and 2 Winders that they could start shooting at 50 miles and work their way in to protect you. Here's a scanned picture one of my escorts as we came off the tanker during Desert Storm. Make me fell all warm and fuzzy inside to have these guys aboard.

^^Nice pic of a 'Black Aces' jet. I wanted soooo bad for MiG-23 or -25 to come up and play. Had they tried their high speed, high altitude run on us they would have been VERY surprised at how far away we could shoot them with the Phoenix.

Here's another scanned one of that era. I sure wish we had digital back then vice my Nikon F4. I also was mailing film home from that cruise and four rolls went missing. I wish I had those shots!

With the two VF-84 birds I'm betting this was a TARPS escort mission.

Evander Holyfield

As mentioned above.... The Hawker Hunter I think was the best looking, cleanest lines of a fighter of British Manufacture...



Even tho the Phantom was mentioned quite a bit, along with the English Electric Lightning, no one mentioned RAF and RN Phantoms.

Instead of J 79s, they had Rolls Royce Spey Engines....

Thirsty, but they sure could get the Phantom up to altitude in a hurry....faster than American Phantoms...

Here's a pic that will piss ya off....



A Phantom is service with the Iranian Air Force...

Worse maybe.... Iran was the only operator of the F-14 aside from the USN.

The real shame of course is what the mad mullahs have done to Iran. Only a matter of time until sanity returns but as bad as the Shah was the last almost 50 years have taken a country that has a whole lot going for it and destroyed it. I have co-worker who was stationed there as a USAF Major working on radar in the days of the Shah and it was a very different place.

IIRC correctly, wasn't Brit businessman arrested a few years back for trying to sell parts to the Iranians for their Tomcats?

It is a real shame about Iran; in the days of the Shah, they allowed access to airbases and all sorts of similar co-operation for the Wests overflights and general eves dropping on of the Soviet Union..

Here's a pretty good trailer for a TV show about 13 years ago, 95th Fighter Squadron (home of Mr. Bones). Depicts the F-15 training program:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sakpDq6P4MA

And never insult Mr. F_cking Bones!

Fear the bones on a patch? Ha! You want bones VF-103 has Ensign Jack Ernie and has for a long time. They were with the Jolly Rogers with us in CVW-8 before the 84 become 103.

http://www.stripes.com/military-life/dead-man-flying-1.29418

“Skipper, remember me with the Jolly Rogers.”

Nearly 60 years after Ensign Jack Ernie was, according to Navy legend, shot down and killed during the 1945 battle of Okinawa, the aviator’s memory lives on in the F-14 Tomcat squadron that bears the unit’s original name and skull-and-crossbones insignia.

Fighter Squadron 103’s Jolly Rogers honor his last request by carrying Ernie’s skull and two crossed femurs in a glass case wherever they go, most recently on a Middle East deployment aboard the USS John F. Kennedy.

“He’s a full-time squadron member,” said Jolly Rogers aviator Lt. David Reade. “He’s on our flight schedule and our roster. He contributes a great deal to our successes and morale.”

Ernie’s family, squadron legend says, presented the skull and two femurs when his remains were recovered after the war. Squadron officers say they don’t know, however, what year that was.

The Jolly Rogers name has been carried by four fighter squadrons over the past 61 years, only coming to VF-103 in 1995.

Ernie, who was a Fighter Squadron 17 naval aviator during World War II, has deployed aboard dozens of carriers and to numerous air stations in his present service.

Tens of thousands of sailors know his story.

“Everybody knows about the bones of Jack Ernie,” Reade said.

“He’s been on board several carriers with us,” said the Jolly Rogers’ skipper, Cmdr. David Landess. “We did carrier qualifications on USS Ronald Reagan last year, and he’s gone on all the detachments we’ve had to Naval Air Station Key West (Fla.) and Naval Air Station Fallon (Nev.).”

Ernie is looked after by the squadron’s bones control officer.

“It’s kind of nice, but does bring a little pressure,” said the BCO, Lt. j.g. Matt Woo.

The BCO is always the newest pilot in rank and time in the squadron.

“It’s a right of passage for the junior pilot,” said Woo, who reported to the squadron in early June. “That’s the tradition, and Jack wouldn’t have it any other way.”

The advice given to Woo by the outgoing BCO?

“Basically, don’t lose the bones,” he said. “Also, don’t go into any dark parking lots by yourself.

“It’s an honor to carry his bones, but also a burden because of the theft attempts,” he explained. “You’re either the goat or a hero.”

Because the skull and crossbones draw so much attention, there have been many kidnapping attempts throughout Ernie’s long career.

“He’s highly sought after … by other squadrons,” said Landess. “There’s one or two strong attempts each year.

“I was successful in kidnapping him,” Landess said, explaining it was during a previous tour with a different squadron. “I’ve destroyed all the pictures since I’ve become the CO of this squadron.”

The Jolly Rogers name and skull-and-crossbones insignia were created by their first commanding officer, Lt. Cmdr. John Thomas Blackburn, in 1943. Blackburn is said to have made the decision partially based on the aircraft that they flew, the F4U Corsair, and partially on the off-duty reputation of early carrier pilots.

While most of Ernie’s time is spent in the squadron’s ready room, it’s not all work for him. He’s a regular guest at squadron functions, or out on overseas liberty — the Navy word for time spent ashore.

But don’t expect trouble from Ernie. Gone is the “work hard, play hard” mentality of those earlier carrier pilots.

“We’re a good group now,” said Reade, “not like the boys of long ago.”

That doesn’t mean Ernie won’t have a drink when he’s out in town.

“He has a shot on top of his box, in case he has the urge to drink,” Landess said.

“Jack Daniels,” Woo later clarified.

Ernie obviously draws a lot of attention when he’s off the ship.

“They want to know who would carry a human head in a box,” Woo said.

“You get a lot of stares,” said Reade. “It’s a good way to share … naval aviation with the rest of the world.”

People also see the lengths that the aviators will go to honor Navy tradition.

“It’s not morbid; it’s more of a morale thing,” Landess said. “He’s an icon. It’s a rallying point, a part of our long history that we’re proud of.”

Even with more than a half-century of sea duty, Ernie has never been promoted. “He enjoys his status as a junior officer,” Landess said. “If he had continued to promote, he’d have had to retire years ago. He wants to stay a JO.”

The Jolly Rogers’ current deployment will be their last in the F-14. VF-103 will be switching to the two-seat F/A-18F Super Hornet starting next year, but the Jolly Rogers name will follow them, as will Ernie.

“Ensign Ernie will be there,” said Landess, who recently made his 1,000th carrier landing. “He’s the most experienced aviator in the squadron.”

Historical details about Ernie’s World War II exploits are as sketchy as his recovery and return to the Jolly Rogers.

Cmdr. Jeremy Gillespie, director of the Naval Historical Center’s Warfare Division, said that his researchers can’t find any official information about Ernie — neither disproving nor proving — the squadron’s story.

Gillespie himself, however, remembers a different tale of the bones. While serving aboard the USS Theodore Roosevelt in the early 1990s, he remembers seeing the bones in the VF-84 Jolly Rogers’ ready room.

“The story that was told in the wardroom at the time was that the individual who donated the bones had been a squadron member,” Gillespie said from Washington, D.C., recently. “The guy knew he was dying [of cancer], so he willed two femur bones and his skull to have on display. They sure looked like real bones to me.”

“Whether there’s enough proof to believe it’s the individual [Ernie] or a cool drinking story, I don’t know,” he said.

Mr. Bones on a patch? Ha! He's full up, escorted everywhere by the junior officer in the squadron.

The Jolly Rogers history is a great one, as is the legacy of that squadron. And it was fun when they came to play, just before they disbanded and lost their Tomcats.

Jolly Rogers are still there. They just changed from VF-84 to VFA-103 and from Tomcats to F/A-18F's. Part of Air Wing 7.

The F4 is a terrible fighter, to heavy and unmaneuverable. They didn't put guns on them until they starting losing a lot of them in air combat. It was outclassed by Migs.

F-14 or F-111 ?

F-111 wishes it looked half that good!