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One can calculate and twist for distance, so faster rounds may not have a big advantage.

But, high velocity can make dealing with wind less of a guess.

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Originally Posted by BobinNH
Originally Posted by 264wm


Say it taint so Joe. The 264 WM Woodleigh 160gr PPSN at 3261fps runs circles over any 7mm Rem Mag.



I will have to be forgiven for asking.... how one gets 3261 fps from a 160 gr bullet in a 264 WM,when the exact same case will not give that velocity safely when necked up to 7mm? confused

What charges and how long a barrel does it take to do that?
73gr of H570 that's my 3 shot average. I managed to score 3 lbs. of the old powder That they quit making. It does show signs of pressure but still ejects with ease. I am using a 30" barrel but when I use the book charge that was for the Hornady RN I match there 26" barrel very close.

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I LOVE my 20" 47 Lapua wink

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Originally Posted by 264wm
Originally Posted by BobinNH
Originally Posted by 264wm


Say it taint so Joe. The 264 WM Woodleigh 160gr PPSN at 3261fps runs circles over any 7mm Rem Mag.



I will have to be forgiven for asking.... how one gets 3261 fps from a 160 gr bullet in a 264 WM,when the exact same case will not give that velocity safely when necked up to 7mm? confused

What charges and how long a barrel does it take to do that?
73gr of H570 that's my 3 shot average. I managed to score 3 lbs. of the old powder That they quit making. It does show signs of pressure but still ejects with ease. I am using a 30" barrel but when I use the book charge that was for the Hornady RN I match there 26" barrel very close.

With just a 26" tube, I'd have to flog my 26 Nos to move a 160 at 3,260 fps. 140's shoot at 3,300 without leaning on'em.. blush .

Bet you have some interesting pressures and a very fast barrel... shocked

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I have:
94 swede 6.5x55
96 swede 6.5x55 [I forged over bolt, drilled and tapped]
96 swede 6.5x55
38 swede 6.5x55
VZ24 with Douglas CM 10" twist 260 [I built this rifle]
FN98 with Shilen SS 9" twist 260 [I built this rifle]

I am currently building:
Dumoulin 98 Mauser with Shilen #3 SS 6.5 select match 8" Ratchet 6.5-06

The 6.5-06 reamer and dies were readily available.

I am really a 7mmRemMag person, but I build other rifles to see if I can do any better.


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Current project in progress is my wildcat the 6.5 Wolf Killer that is off the 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser case, maxed out case dimensions and shoulder pushed up to 35 degrees, ballistically similar to the 6.5-284 Norma and 6.5-06, case capacity is 65.0 gr h20,

Getting built on a Tikka T3 (in 6.5X55 Swede) with 5 rnd factory mags in a 24 oz. Manners Elite Hunter stock, Bartlein #3 8 twist 26" barrel

set up with 140 gr Berger Hybrids kissing the rifling with base of bullet bottoming out at base of neck without impacting case capacity and still able to run the 150 and 160 gr Matrix VLD bullets through the 5 rnd factory mags...

Forming the 6.5 Wolf Killer is easy, open case necks with 7mm-08 fl die then size down neck in 6.5 Swede fl die far enough to just stiffly close bolt and MOM bang the cases ...

6.5X55 Swede Lapua brass is almost half the $ of the 6.5-284 brass


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6.5 x 50 caliber Browning... whistle

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Originally Posted by 264wm
Originally Posted by BobinNH
Originally Posted by 264wm


Say it taint so Joe. The 264 WM Woodleigh 160gr PPSN at 3261fps runs circles over any 7mm Rem Mag.



I will have to be forgiven for asking.... how one gets 3261 fps from a 160 gr bullet in a 264 WM,when the exact same case will not give that velocity safely when necked up to 7mm? confused

What charges and how long a barrel does it take to do that?
73gr of H570 that's my 3 shot average. I managed to score 3 lbs. of the old powder That they quit making. It does show signs of pressure but still ejects with ease. I am using a 30" barrel but when I use the book charge that was for the Hornady RN I match there 26" barrel very close.


Well.....signs of pressure and a 30" barrel...I guess I would not call that running rings around a 7mm Rem Mag.Hardly a valid comparison.




The 280 Remington is overbore.

The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Originally Posted by BobinNH
Originally Posted by 264wm
Originally Posted by BobinNH
Originally Posted by 264wm


Say it taint so Joe. The 264 WM Woodleigh 160gr PPSN at 3261fps runs circles over any 7mm Rem Mag.



I will have to be forgiven for asking.... how one gets 3261 fps from a 160 gr bullet in a 264 WM,when the exact same case will not give that velocity safely when necked up to 7mm? confused

What charges and how long a barrel does it take to do that?
73gr of H570 that's my 3 shot average. I managed to score 3 lbs. of the old powder That they quit making. It does show signs of pressure but still ejects with ease. I am using a 30" barrel but when I use the book charge that was for the Hornady RN I match there 26" barrel very close.


Well.....signs of pressure and a 30" barrel...I guess I would not call that running rings around a 7mm Rem Mag.Hardly a valid comparison.

Guess again like I said when I run the Hornady load for there 160gr RN which is 71gr H570 at 3067fps from a 26" barrel I get a 3 shot average from my 30" barrel of 3095 with the same load, the 160gr PPSN which has a BC of .0509 compared to a BC of 0.283 so I would guess that the difference in speed is due to better bullets rather than barrel length.

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Originally Posted by 264wm
Originally Posted by BobinNH
Originally Posted by 264wm
Originally Posted by 264wm




I will have to be forgiven for asking.... how one gets 3261 fps from a 160 gr bullet in a 264 WM,when the exact same case will not give that velocity safely when necked up to 7mm? confused

What charges and how long a barrel does it take to do that?
73gr of H570 that's my 3 shot average. I managed to score 3 lbs. of the old powder That they quit making. It does show signs of pressure but still ejects with ease. I am using a 30" barrel but when I use the book charge that was for the Hornady RN I match there 26" barrel very close.


Well.....signs of pressure and a 30" barrel...I guess I would not call that running rings around a 7mm Rem Mag.Hardly a valid comparison.

Guess again like I said when I run the Hornady load for there 160gr RN which is 71gr H570 at 3067fps from a 26" barrel I get a 3 shot average from my 30" barrel of 3095 with the same load, the 160gr PPSN which has a BC of .0509 compared to a BC of 0.283 so I would guess that the difference in speed is due to better bullets rather than barrel length.


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You're losing me......are you talking about round nose bullets here?


What 7mm 160 has a BC of .283?

Do me a favor and run the actual numbers to 500-600 yards for each will you?Show e what bullet you're using and give me names not acronyms.Have no idea what the hell you're talking about. confused

I want to see what constitutes "running circles around the 7 RM" and you're moving around here to there with an extinct powder, pressures signs and a 30" barrel to get more velocity than any 264 Win Mag on the planet (I have never seen anyone hunting with a 30" barrel......anywhere) and 7mm bullets with a BC of .283 vs a BC of .509.

GHC no wonder the 7 Rem Mag killed the 264....the hunters grabbed the 7mm and the number crunchers clung to the 264. smile

Last edited by BobinNH; 03/31/15.



The 280 Remington is overbore.

The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Seems to me the 7RM filled a market niche and satisfied a
need, or at least a perceived need.

The .264WM from the beginning was a high performance, specialty item, whereas the 7RM seemed more mainstream. And, to me, the .264 was more finicky than the 7RM, which was easier to load for and more forgiving.

I know, .264 advocates have tweaked that round into some impressive performance, but history is history and the 7RM blew the .264 WM away in sales. Maybe the public wasn't yet ready for the 6.5 bore. Who knows. The 6.5 seems to be moving slowly forward these days. I have and like both calibers.

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Originally Posted by BobinNH
I want to see what constitutes "running circles around the 7 RM"


Bob,

It's composed of having an agenda to push, lacking a working understanding of basic ballistic principles, and not having much regard for one's own face.

264 doesn't seem to understand that with appropriate powders, a given case will always drive a larger caliber bullet faster than a smaller caliber, in the same weight.

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Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
...a given case will always drive a larger caliber bullet faster than a smaller caliber, in the same weight.

Careful.

That sounds like physics... blush

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BobinNH
With the Internet and without pressure data, all velocities are possible with 6.5 bullets. This is so because the basic laws of physics have been suspended.
Also 6.5 bullets have a certain mystical quality that allows the barrels to last at least twice as long as other bores.
NOW DO YOU UNDERSTAND?



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If I'm going bigger than a .260.... it's straight into the loving belt of the 7 Rem Mag. Any of the midsize 7s (SAUM,WSM, .280AI, Mash, Bee, x64, etc) are still the best big game rifles I can think of.... and the "160/.600/3k" box score is still where 'Long Range Hunting' rounds start for me.

.264 Win/SAUM/whatever can come close.... but it seems an aweful lot of fuss for 15-20% less payload downrange than the 162/168/180 7mm's.

To the OPs question....

Consistent 1-2 MOA 500 yard guns grow on trees, and rarely does caliber/head stamp have anything to do with hitting stuff at that range. I had a ball watching my mom and her friends beat steel out to 500 with my 20" .260 just last Saturday. Properly set-up, light recoiling rifles.... with good dope and reliable optics... will do a lot of work out to about 600.

On a long action... I'd probably go 23" 6.5/06, focus on the 123 Scenar/130 VLD in the 3050-3150 range. It'd recoil and kill like a .270 (which ain't a bad place to be).... but offer flatter trajectory and less drift across the board... though not a lot.

For a 1000 yard steel rig/700 yard hunting rifle.... I'd go 24" 7 Rem... or any of the above mentioned smaller/bigger brothers.


You better pray to the God of Skinny Punks that this wind doesn't pick up......
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Jordan/RinB/DF/Dogshooter:

Thanks for clarification....now I understand. Thought I was losing more of my marbles than I already have... blush

Dogshooter I quite agree and am off to the range to shoot my 7 RM shortly. wink




The 280 Remington is overbore.

The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Originally Posted by BobinNH
You're losing me......are you talking about round nose bullets here?


What 7mm 160 has a BC of .283?

Do me a favor and run the actual numbers to 500-600 yards for each will you?Show e what bullet you're using and give me names not acronyms.Have no idea what the hell you're talking about. confused

I want to see what constitutes "running circles around the 7 RM" and you're moving around here to there with an extinct powder, pressures signs and a 30" barrel to get more velocity than any 264 Win Mag on the planet (I have never seen anyone hunting with a 30" barrel......anywhere) and 7mm bullets with a BC of .283 vs a BC of .509.

GHC no wonder the 7 Rem Mag killed the 264....the hunters grabbed the 7mm and the number crunchers clung to the 264. smile

The 160gr round nose bullet is the 6.5 Hornady RN bullet I was showing that the barrel does not make much difference and I do hunt with the 30" barrel. I am going to be 70 this fall and am 6'2" at 215 lbs. and can still pack a 12.5 lb. rifle where ever I choose to go. It is not a brush gun as I have a DPMS 338 Federal for the brush. I started hunting with the 264 in 1963 and it still is my favorite gun. I have hunted with a 7mm rem mag and do not like it. It collects a lot of dust. Here is the 500 yard numbers. Zero is 350 yards with +5.4" at mid range and -16.9 inches at 500 yards at 2368fps and 1992 ft. lbs. of energy at 500 yards with the 160gr PPSN. If I load the 160gr matrix bullet with a BC of 0.685 these numbers get better at 3261fps. With 350 yards as zero mid range is +3.3 inches and -2.9 inches with 2581fps and 2366 ft. lbs of energy at 500 yards

Last edited by 264wm; 03/31/15.
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I, for one, don't like a large midrange arc, as I sometimes shoot at closer ranges. And, I don't want to be remembering to hold under.

I like a 250 yd. zero with my 26 Nos, which puts it around 1.5" top of arc and I twist over 400.

BTW, if you like pushing that .264, you'd love the 26... cool

Or Swamplord's 6.5 Pro. Now, that's an animal, for sure... shocked

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My favorite is the .260AAR, or 6.5x257AI as some know it. I also really like the 6.5x47 Lapua, 6.5 Remington mag, and close to the above the 6.5x284.

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