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I, for one, don't like a large midrange arc, as I sometimes shoot at closer ranges. And, I don't want to be remembering to hold under. I like a 250 yd. zero with my 26 Nos, which puts it around 1.5" top of arc and I twist over 400. BTW, if you like pushing that .264, you'd love the 26...  Or Swamplord's 6.5 Pro. Now, that's an animal, for sure...  DF Swamplords 6.5Pro does it all with 3500fps on the 160gr matrix VLD and he has a company that will be building them for general sales.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I, for one, don't like a large midrange arc, as I sometimes shoot at closer ranges. And, I don't want to be remembering to hold under. I like a 250 yd. zero with my 26 Nos, which puts it around 1.5" top of arc and I twist over 400. BTW, if you like pushing that .264, you'd love the 26... Or Swamplord's 6.5 Pro. Now, that's an animal, for sure... DF Swamplords 6.5Pro does it all with 3500fps on the 160gr matrix VLD and he has a company that will be building them for general sales. I may have considered the 6.5 Pro if it had been further along in development. I guess those naysayers complaining about 26 Nos barrel life will have a field day with the Pro. Oh well... That's why barrels have threads... The 26 does best with the slowest powders, like 869, 872. Any idea what Swamplord is burning in the Pro? DF
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I, for one, don't like a large midrange arc, as I sometimes shoot at closer ranges. And, I don't want to be remembering to hold under. I like a 250 yd. zero with my 26 Nos, which puts it around 1.5" top of arc and I twist over 400. BTW, if you like pushing that .264, you'd love the 26... Or Swamplord's 6.5 Pro. Now, that's an animal, for sure... DF Swamplords 6.5Pro does it all with 3500fps on the 160gr matrix VLD and he has a company that will be building them for general sales. I may have considered the 6.5 Pro if it had been further along in development. I guess those naysayers complaining about 26 Nos barrel life will have a field day with the Pro. Oh well... That's why barrels have threads... The 26 does best with the slowest powders, like 869, 872. Any idea what Swamplord is burning in the Pro?DF Pixie dust and at about 80k psi..... or his chrony is off from muzzle blast.
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Joined: Nov 2010
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I, for one, don't like a large midrange arc, as I sometimes shoot at closer ranges. And, I don't want to be remembering to hold under. I like a 250 yd. zero with my 26 Nos, which puts it around 1.5" top of arc and I twist over 400. BTW, if you like pushing that .264, you'd love the 26... Or Swamplord's 6.5 Pro. Now, that's an animal, for sure... DF Swamplords 6.5Pro does it all with 3500fps on the 160gr matrix VLD and he has a company that will be building them for general sales. I may have considered the 6.5 Pro if it had been further along in development. I guess those naysayers complaining about 26 Nos barrel life will have a field day with the Pro. Oh well... That's why barrels have threads... The 26 does best with the slowest powders, like 869, 872. Any idea what Swamplord is burning in the Pro?DF Pixie dust and at about 80k psi..... or his chrony is off from muzzle blast.  Bet that thing blows the screens off his chrono...  DF
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I did a Search for his 6.5 Pro loads.
He uses 27" and 31" Bartlein tubes with WS2 (Tunston Disulfide coatings), 100 gr. US-869 powder and 160 gr. Matrix VLD's, clocked with a magnetospeed chrono. at 3,500 fps.
DF
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This thread is a treasure.
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You infidels (non believers) .... hahaha ! The 6.5 Prometheus is indeed not for most of y'allz .... It was a challenge I jumped into simply because every single fool said it can't or shouldn't be done ! So far it has given me the velocities I quoted and others are learning that the 6.5mm bullets have another sweet spot that is not attainable in any other factory cartridge .... not even the 26 Nosler ..... ( maybe just maybe if you toss the ridiculous 30-06 length bs and throat it properly) same thing when I mentioned I might neck down my 338 Wolverine (338-500 Jeffery Imp) to 30 caliber ! Lots of chicken little the sky is falling types predicted horrific world end earthquakes and other bad stuff happening ! Well the 300 Werewolf growls and howls 230 gr Berger Hybrids at 3500 fps out of a 30" pipe ! I recently mentioned I'm necking down my 6.5 Wolf Killer to .224 cal (63.5 gr 20 cap) and there ya go, the Armageddon prophecies started anew , stainless steel barrels will supposedly melt after a three shot group ! Hell , I wanna see that ! Bottom line is this ........ If you don't have the balls or the cash (or nil on both) for these types of ventures I call adventures .... please stand back and watch quietly, you just might learn something ! I most certainly have , even if the new knowledge is about the "fastest barrel burner alive " It is still a cool and fun expirement and stimulates the mind with ideas for new innovations in cartridges, projectiles and firearms ........ The cartridges I develop are for me and my use as I see fit, I do not need somebody's idea of "ethics" or "efficiency" or any other such nonsense ...... If some barrels get used up along the way we'll make muzzle brakes out of them, screw another barrel on via the highly innovative spiral grooves we call threads that actually allow you to replace barrels on a whim , dayummm ! who'da thunk it could be done ! maybe I should keep it a secret ? Anyway .... I necked up that offensive 6.5 PRO to 7mm and further improved it to 108.5 gr h20 capacity (my version of the 7mm-300 Norma Imp) 37* shoulder and a .327" long neck that sizzles them 180 gr Hybrids at 3400 fps (3300 fps accuracy load) now working with the 208 gr Alco RBT-ST bullets , with 195's on the way .... put that in your barrel and smoke it ! ![[Linked Image]](http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc153/guitarster1/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsa2ylvaje.jpg) ]photobucket[/url]
Last edited by Swamplord; 03/31/15.
"The welfare of humanity is always the alibi of tyrants".
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BobinNH
With the Internet and without pressure data, all velocities are possible with 6.5 bullets. This is so because the basic laws of physics have been suspended.
Also 6.5 bullets have a certain mystical quality that allows the barrels to last at least twice as long as other bores.
NOW DO YOU UNDERSTAND? Its the metricness that does it.
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Looking at the OP's post it doesn't look like he has money to burn or the most experience shooting long.
His "wants" fall well with in the capabilities of the more sedate 6.5 offerings even if a 140 at 3000 isn't in the cards.
Also as to the actions on hand they could easily be trade/sell fodder for a different action.
Reading between the lines and looking back to projects I've put together I think the OP would be better served with one of the short action 6.5's like the Lapua,Creed, or 260.
Making empties is where it is at and less is often more.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Interesting thread, for sure.
If the Pro needs a 30" bbl. to burn all that powder and perform as designed, maybe Nosler nailed it with the 26.
The 26 Nos case capacity may be about as much as one would want for a 26" barrel in a hunting size/hunting weight 6.5mm rifle for general use.
The Pro appears to be a very specialized set up for ultra LR shooting and maybe not ideal for general hunting use.
Just a thought.
DF
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Never had a problem using a rifle with a barrel longer than 26". Few run around the woods with shotguns with 26 or shorter barrels.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Interesting thread, for sure.
If the Pro needs a 30" bbl. to burn all that powder and perform as designed, maybe Nosler nailed it with the 26.
The 26 Nos case capacity may be about as much as one would want for a 26" barrel in a hunting size/hunting weight 6.5mm rifle for general use.
The Pro appears to be a very specialized set up for ultra LR shooting and maybe not ideal for general hunting use.
Just a thought.
DF The 30" Bartlein barrel was threaded, chambered/headspaced then removed and has not been back on yet, All load data/velocity was obtained with the 27" Brux barrel which has a muzzle brake machined into the extra inch ...... That Brux barrel has 100 rounds of cream of wheat and 20 gr Blue Dot fireforming loads and 450 rounds of 160gr Matrix and Woodleigh bullets through it, I ran out of 160's and stopped shooting , got a couple boxes of the 150 gr Matrix VLD's but have not shot any yet, The last 40 round string shot with the 160 Matrix bullets was with 100 gr of US869 for an ave of 3500 fps with 3 shot groups ranging from 3/4" to 3/8" at 100 yards... The Brux barrel is an 8.5 twist that I meant to burn up during load developement but it has held up very well, It would appear the case design with the much longer neck coupled with the WS2 bullet coating and WS2 bore prep is doing it's job .. Frankly I can't wait to yank that Brux off to see what the 30" 8 twist 5R Bartlein will do but the damn thing won't give up .... I have not messed with it since that last load developement shooting session and have been involved with my other wildcats, The 160 gr Woodleigh Weldcore bullets shot some nice groups at 3444 fps and that load will be used for "general hunting use" on moose by my teenage daughter this fall . This cartridge was developed several years before the 26 Nosler came around and has done everything it was supposed to do . Are you really saying that because the 6.5 PRO is so much faster than the 26 Nosler that it's not suitable for general hunting ?
"The welfare of humanity is always the alibi of tyrants".
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Campfire Ranger
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Some may know I like to experiment. I screwed a 28" barrel on a rifle and took it to the woods in Western Oregon. I hunted from the Cascades to the coast. The test was to discovered how many times the 28" barrel snagged on a branch or bush. During the whole season it happened one time! When I felt the bush I stopped to see how much barrel was extending beyond the snag. The barrel would have to be about 20" to clear that snag. I say carry what you want.
One time a guy came up to me while I was hunting and started making fun of my rifle. Finally he asked me how much farther it would shoot than his 24". "At least four inches farther," I told him.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Are you really saying that because the 6.5 PRO is so much faster than the 26 Nosler that it's not suitable for general hunting ? Not exactly. I was just thinking if one needed that much barrel for the Pro to do it's stuff, maybe the 26 was about optimal for a genl. use hunting rifle. I guess if a Pro could be made into an 8+ pound hunting rifle with a 26-27" tube, that would qualify for a general purpose rifle. I don't know much about the WS2 coating. How about a primer on that process. It seems to be an important part of the performance. DF
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I don't know much about the WS2 coating. How about a primer on that process. It seems to be an important part of the performance.
DF
You'll find info on WS2 here ..... http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f28/lazzeroni-warbird-105398/
"The welfare of humanity is always the alibi of tyrants".
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Campfire Ranger
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Swamplord,
Thanks for the link. While reading it I looked for loading dies. I didn't see that application listed, but it seems like it should work, even without lube. What do you think?
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
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You infidels (non believers) .... hahaha ! The 6.5 Prometheus is indeed not for most of y'allz .... It was a challenge I jumped into simply because every single fool said it can't or shouldn't be done ! So far it has given me the velocities I quoted and others are learning that the 6.5mm bullets have another sweet spot that is not attainable in any other factory cartridge .... not even the 26 Nosler ..... ( maybe just maybe if you toss the ridiculous 30-06 length bs and throat it properly) same thing when I mentioned I might neck down my 338 Wolverine (338-500 Jeffery Imp) to 30 caliber ! Lots of chicken little the sky is falling types predicted horrific world end earthquakes and other bad stuff happening ! Well the 300 Werewolf growls and howls 230 gr Berger Hybrids at 3500 fps out of a 30" pipe ! I recently mentioned I'm necking down my 6.5 Wolf Killer to .224 cal (63.5 gr 20 cap) and there ya go, the Armageddon prophecies started anew , stainless steel barrels will supposedly melt after a three shot group ! Hell , I wanna see that ! Bottom line is this ........ If you don't have the balls or the cash (or nil on both) for these types of ventures I call adventures .... please stand back and watch quietly, you just might learn something ! I most certainly have , even if the new knowledge is about the "fastest barrel burner alive " It is still a cool and fun expirement and stimulates the mind with ideas for new innovations in cartridges, projectiles and firearms ........ The cartridges I develop are for me and my use as I see fit, I do not need somebody's idea of "ethics" or "efficiency" or any other such nonsense ...... If some barrels get used up along the way we'll make muzzle brakes out of them, screw another barrel on via the highly innovative spiral grooves we call threads that actually allow you to replace barrels on a whim , dayummm ! who'da thunk it could be done ! maybe I should keep it a secret ? Anyway .... I necked up that offensive 6.5 PRO to 7mm and further improved it to 108.5 gr h20 capacity (my version of the 7mm-300 Norma Imp) 37* shoulder and a .327" long neck that sizzles them 180 gr Hybrids at 3400 fps (3300 fps accuracy load) now working with the 208 gr Alco RBT-ST bullets , with 195's on the way .... put that in your barrel and smoke it ! ]photobucket[/url] I am with you and love the pushing the limits I am only saddened by the company you picked to make the 6.5 Pro as when I contacted them to see what it would take to have my 30-06 Enfield converted to 3.5 Pro they said they would only use the Remington 700 to build on. But keep up the good work I enjoy following your adventures.
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Interesting thread. Handloading/shooting would be dull in a hurry if there were ever consensus...
As to the original question, 6.5-284 in the 700 long action and the 6.5-06 in a commercial mauser or a lengthened standard. Both do everything you want. The 6.5-284 with Lapua brass requires the least amount of foreplay...
For a bit more fps, the 6.5-280AI with Nosler brass.
Defend the Constitution
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You infidels (non believers) .... hahaha ! The 6.5 Prometheus is indeed not for most of y'allz .... It was a challenge I jumped into simply because every single fool said it can't or shouldn't be done ! So far it has given me the velocities I quoted and others are learning that the 6.5mm bullets have another sweet spot that is not attainable in any other factory cartridge .... not even the 26 Nosler ..... ( maybe just maybe if you toss the ridiculous 30-06 length bs and throat it properly) same thing when I mentioned I might neck down my 338 Wolverine (338-500 Jeffery Imp) to 30 caliber ! Lots of chicken little the sky is falling types predicted horrific world end earthquakes and other bad stuff happening ! Well the 300 Werewolf growls and howls 230 gr Berger Hybrids at 3500 fps out of a 30" pipe ! I recently mentioned I'm necking down my 6.5 Wolf Killer to .224 cal (63.5 gr 20 cap) and there ya go, the Armageddon prophecies started anew , stainless steel barrels will supposedly melt after a three shot group ! Hell , I wanna see that ! Bottom line is this ........ If you don't have the balls or the cash (or nil on both) for these types of ventures I call adventures .... please stand back and watch quietly, you just might learn something ! I most certainly have , even if the new knowledge is about the "fastest barrel burner alive " It is still a cool and fun expirement and stimulates the mind with ideas for new innovations in cartridges, projectiles and firearms ........ The cartridges I develop are for me and my use as I see fit, I do not need somebody's idea of "ethics" or "efficiency" or any other such nonsense ...... If some barrels get used up along the way we'll make muzzle brakes out of them, screw another barrel on via the highly innovative spiral grooves we call threads that actually allow you to replace barrels on a whim , dayummm ! who'da thunk it could be done ! maybe I should keep it a secret ? Anyway .... I necked up that offensive 6.5 PRO to 7mm and further improved it to 108.5 gr h20 capacity (my version of the 7mm-300 Norma Imp) 37* shoulder and a .327" long neck that sizzles them 180 gr Hybrids at 3400 fps (3300 fps accuracy load) now working with the 208 gr Alco RBT-ST bullets , with 195's on the way .... put that in your barrel and smoke it ! ]photobucket[/url] I am with you and love the pushing the limits I am only saddened by the company you picked to make the 6.5 Pro as when I contacted them to see what it would take to have my 30-06 Enfield converted to 3.5 Pro they said they would only use the Remington 700 to build on. But keep up the good work I enjoy following your adventures. Big +1 Swamplord : Thank You for pushing the envelope, and keeping us posted. Please Stay Safe.
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If I'm going bigger than a .260.... it's straight into the loving belt of the 7 Rem Mag. Any of the midsize 7s (SAUM,WSM, .280AI, Mash, Bee, x64, etc) are still the best big game rifles I can think of.... and the "160/.600/3k" box score is still where 'Long Range Hunting' rounds start for me.
.264 Win/SAUM/whatever can come close.... but it seems an aweful lot of fuss for 15-20% less payload downrange than the 162/168/180 7mm's.
To the OPs question....
Consistent 1-2 MOA 500 yard guns grow on trees, and rarely does caliber/head stamp have anything to do with hitting stuff at that range. I had a ball watching my mom and her friends beat steel out to 500 with my 20" .260 just last Saturday. Properly set-up, light recoiling rifles.... with good dope and reliable optics... will do a lot of work out to about 600.
On a long action... I'd probably go 23" 6.5/06, focus on the 123 Scenar/130 VLD in the 3050-3150 range. It'd recoil and kill like a .270 (which ain't a bad place to be).... but offer flatter trajectory and less drift across the board... though not a lot.
For a 1000 yard steel rig/700 yard hunting rifle.... I'd go 24" 7 Rem... or any of the above mentioned smaller/bigger brothers. Good post right there! Absolutely spot on!! X-VERMINATOR
Sooner or later our heritage of hunting is going to be a rich mans sport and the words "Outfitter" and "Hunt Industry" will be synonymous with cancer and A.I.D.S. among blue collar hunters like me and my family! (A.L. Williams - 2010)
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