Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles What pencil barrel in .223/5.56

I don't know what it weighs stripped. I only weighed it while trying to figure out which rifles I was going to use for my next class. I guess I could strip it down. That way I can also test the repeatability of my scope mounts.

Ed

Well, if you must.

This is the blueprint, more or less, of what I'm looking for:

https://www.midwestindustriesinc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_ID=1320

This is the model, I believe, that G&A reviewed recently in their AR-15 magazine this year. MI doesn't list the weight, but G&A weighed it at "5.14 lbs."

Yes, I could just buy this rifle, but the wisdom of the 'Fire suggests I might, could build something like this with better barrel and trigger for about the same money. (The website says the trigger is "Mil-Spec/standard, 7 lbs. I'm sure I can do better.)

That's funny, isn't it? The trigger weight is almost 2 lbs heavier than the rifle.

So, you could pick the rifle up by the trigger, and not have a ND.

It's a safety issue.

My DD V7, a mid-length, has their lightweight barrel and leaner modular float rail. It shoots very well and feels right. It seems that the bare rifle goes right at six pounds.

EdM,

Which scope mount is that pictured?

Thanks

The MI gun looks nice. The $229 SSA--E would fix the trigger, aero precision LW sbr mount and a VX-R or VX-6. I think I am going to build mine to get exactly what I want.

The idea of a 1/4 MOA Noveske barrel is appealing yet a 1MOA DD barrel that costs less and will take a lot more abuse makes more sense to me. 1000 rounds fired fast to get the barrel pretty hot could possibly turn a 1/4 MOA SS barrel into a 1MOA barrel anyway, 700 full auto rounds is said to do this to a BHW barrel "on the internet" anyway and who does not get their barrel pretty hot sometimes practicing at silhouettes and stuff?

So as I do not shoot prairie dogs at 500 yards but deer and pigs at sub 200, unless I just want to shoot off the bench when will I ever know its a 1/4 MOA?? A 1 MOA barrel standing up on your hind legs or shooting out of a stand will bust a pig at as many yards and as easy as a $450 1/4 MOA barrel except maybe in some fantasy. I will also stick with 1-7, I know it works with a 70 grain TSX.


For fun a DD pencil barrel for $289 is just not fat in front of its 0.750 inch gas port and is 21 ounces vs 27 ounces for the government profile. The Noveske LW is 30 ounces and of course "more money". The Geiselle 13 inch SMR is 15 ounces with their 2 inch nut. With everything but the muzzle device and with the DD LW profile barrel I figure 62.5 ounces or 4 pounds. Add your lower of choice average 2.5 pounds or so and your at 6.5 pounds? The 15 inch (I am also looking at) KMR rail will be but 8 ounces and get you to 6 pounds even.

The Aeroprecision SPR mount (which I have an like) is 4 ounces, the VXR 2-7 x 33 is 13 ounces so total with KMR rail (I think) is 7 pounds with the scope and mount.

Ed:

I think the sweet spot for me is going to be somewhere between 5 and 6 pounds. Attention to the weight of each component is going to be important. Where the weight is, is going to be important, for handling.

Jimmy:

As I mentioned above, the primary purpose is going to be hunting. It will be a walking varminter/pig gun. Ranges will be 100 yards or less for most shots, and I don't expect to shoot beyond 200 yards at any game.

The capability of three rounds in an inch (average) from a cold bore with hunting ammo would be great. I'm not going to cook the oil off the barrel at the range for S&G. If the day comes when I ever have to repel boarders in and around the house, all it needs to do then is function reliably.

10-4, I changed my post above and did some more weight calculations. That criterion barrel on that thing must be skinny as all get out to make a 5.5 pound upper gun, I wonder what the rail weights? If flexes a lot it will hit the gas block.

I am not crazy about their V7 handguard after I dropped this rifle and had the hand guard move on me but here is their LW barrel. The bull is 2 inch diameter. I have talked myself out of a stainless steel barrel I guess. For a while I thought it was a fluke but DD marketing dude confirmed average 1MOA for me.

A cheap Nikon.

LOL. I've spent a little time weighing components on various websites - when I can find weights.

and then you put a scope, and mount on it! I have an extra SWFA 1-4 which is 14 ounces, plus a mount if you use LT-104 8 ounces IIRC. The Aero mounts are insanely light, the one I have is working fine so I may get another one.

I've yet to see an AR weigh on my scales at 5.5 lbs but my scales may be off too. The lightest one I've seen was a 14.5" pencil barrel and it was 5.9.

My LW uses Rainier Arms upper without a forward assist, Colt pencil barrel and a shaved gas block. A shorter Troy Alpha rail would cut down some weight as would a standard carbine buffer and a semi bolt carrier or get radical with a JP system. Makes me want to try again and build another...

I must resist!

That KMR rail is pretty darn light, would give you the chance to get away from Troy!

There can't be many. G&A says the MI they tested was less than 5.25 lbs. Most of the ARs I've picked up have felt well over that, but in fairness, they mostly have a lot of gear bolted to them so it's hard to judge.

Barrel weights from the makers are all over the map, but you occasionally see one advertised at 1.5 lbs.

I'm going to talk to the gunsmith who built my .223 Remington bolt action rifle about this. He does up some heavy barrel ARs for long-distance match shooting, and he'll surely have an opinion as to this one way or another. Probably a negative one, given his predilections.

I've had about 6 true pencil barrels and can't really see where they could shave any weight from them without compromising the barrel. I also would rather have a smoother shooting AR than one that tries to beat itself to death with a light buffer and carrier. I know JP makes a system but it's rather pricey. I've ran shaved carriers before and just don't like them.

My Kimber Montana's weigh 5.5 lbs bare and I just don't see where an AR could get that low but these new rails might get it done. It's tempting...

I'm not sure what you mean by shaving weight off a pencil barrel. I assume you didn't shave yours. How much did they weigh?

As for the BCG, I'm not going to compromise reliability by messing up that. I don't know exactly how Midwest Industries got all the weight off their lightweight rifle, but if they did it by making it unreliable in some way, then I wouldn't want to go there.

Mine were all Colt and one DD but by looking at them, there's no way to trim anymore weight off the barrel itself. Uppers and lowers look ordinary. Just wondering how they got the weight down.

If they used a smaller gas port, a low mass carrier, extra power buffer spring and a light bufer and got it all matched up right, that would be a giant step towards losing weight and still run right. It's interesting.

wonder what bolt carrier they use?

Jimmy:

The MI website says "M16 bolt carrier group." That's all.