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The difference between a heavy timber elk,and an open country elk,might be a few seconds and ten steps. Kinda raises a conundrum....don't it? confused smile

But not really.




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Originally Posted by BobinNH
The difference between a heavy timber elk,and an open country elk,might be a few seconds and ten steps. Kinda raises a conundrum....don't it? confused smile

But not really.


Indeed....I shot my bull this past year in heavy timber, didn't have as long to make up my mind. You are certainly right. That Nosler Partition busted his conundrum all to pieces though.
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A ton of overkill beats an ounce of underkill.

Did someone mention elk in thick timber? There were four elk in the photo below as I recall. Even though I took the pic I can only find two, both of them close enough to reflect the camera flash in their eyes. It was raining, of course.

[Linked Image]

My son hunts elk in the stuff above, consistently killing branched antler bulls. He moved from a 30-06 to a .338 for elk, though he has a 7mm mag and a 6mm in his arsenal, and killed a 6x6 with the 6 when it was the rifle in hand one time.

A long time friend of mine in BC shoots all big game with his 220 Swift: moose, grizzly, elk, whatever. He also roped and tied up an uninjured adult caribou bull. If you've got what it takes...









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Great pictures!

Elk country can change in a few steps of the elk...



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Originally Posted by Godogs57


Indeed....I shot my bull this past year in heavy timber, didn't have as long to make up my mind. You are certainly right. That Nosler Partition busted his conundrum all to pieces though.
[Linked Image]


That is a superb photo!


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The Nosler Partition seen to be one of the only bullets that can be counted on to penetrate the conundrum on an elk.
I have had cup and core bullets disintegrate on a dichotomy on deer sized animals, leaving contusions on the enigma, but requiring a follow up shot.

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I've used Partitions and Speer Hotcores for years with equal results...until the last couple of years. I think Speer's quality control has dropped. I can't get them to group any more in the same rifle I've used for years.


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I might as well add my two cents in here also. I haven't read through the entire post, though most of it.
Like others have said, shot placement is most important, with a bullet designed for the job being done.

For the original question about small calibers being used. I think it all comes down to what one is comfortable with. And I don't mean just comfortable shooting, I mean what you are comfortable shooting a big game animal with.
I personally am not comfortable shooting game animals with small calibers. It even felt weird to me to carry a 6mm last fall whitetail hunting. Oh, it would have killed just fine, but I am not comfortable with it.
For big game I prefer a 140 grain bullet and on up. I really prefer the heavies though. I like the Speer 200 gr out of my 30-06 even for deer, 200 gr Sierra in my 300 WBY, and my favorite elk rifle is my stubby little 350 Rem mag with a 220-225 grain bullet.
Where I hunt it is heavily hunted public land, where a lot of years the only legal elk I see is the one I shoot. Shot angles are not always perfect, I have shot through heavy brush and limbs many times. This is where I like the heavier bullets. From my experience, even a 165 or 180 grain bullet will not go through brush without deflection. The 200-250 grain bullets will stay right on path and put the animal down.

Again, just my opinion. Each person will have his/her own idea of what will and can work for them.

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Originally Posted by bigswede358
I might as well add my two cents in here also. I haven't read through the entire post, though most of it.
Like others have said, shot placement is most important, with a bullet designed for the job being done.

For the original question about small calibers being used. I think it all comes down to what one is comfortable with. And I don't mean just comfortable shooting, I mean what you are comfortable shooting a big game animal with.
I personally am not comfortable shooting game animals with small calibers. It even felt weird to me to carry a 6mm last fall whitetail hunting. Oh, it would have killed just fine, but I am not comfortable with it.
For big game I prefer a 140 grain bullet and on up. I really prefer the heavies though. I like the Speer 200 gr out of my 30-06 even for deer, 200 gr Sierra in my 300 WBY, and my favorite elk rifle is my stubby little 350 Rem mag with a 220-225 grain bullet.
Where I hunt it is heavily hunted public land, where a lot of years the only legal elk I see is the one I shoot. Shot angles are not always perfect, I have shot through heavy brush and limbs many times. This is where I like the heavier bullets. From my experience, even a 165 or 180 grain bullet will not go through brush without deflection. The 200-250 grain bullets will stay right on path and put the animal down.

Again, just my opinion. Each person will have his/her own idea of what will and can work for them.


Great post swede ,
My own sentiments, and just about my preference in Bullet diameters !
Ya know for a Medium Bore rifle,you'll have a hard time surpassing the authority of that .358 used on large game in the lower 48 IMHO , and I have used .338's & .375's
Rich


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I have shot through heavy brush and limbs many times. This is where I like the heavier bullets. From my experience, even a 165 or 180 grain bullet will not go through brush without deflection. The 200-250 grain bullets will stay right on path and put the animal down.


I can't support this. Once a bullet hits something, I don't care what size it is, it's a guessing game as to where it goes, and what it will do.


Originally Posted by captain seafire
I replace valve cover gaskets every 50K, if they don't need them sooner...
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Originally Posted by Rancho_Loco
Quote
I have shot through heavy brush and limbs many times. This is where I like the heavier bullets. From my experience, even a 165 or 180 grain bullet will not go through brush without deflection. The 200-250 grain bullets will stay right on path and put the animal down.


I can't support this. Once a bullet hits something, I don't care what size it is, it's a guessing game as to where it goes, and what it will do.
A while back someone did some serious research on bullet deflection. The results were that big, heavy bullets deflected just as bad as light ones. The old idea of brush busting bullets is a myth.


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Seen more that one time when guys had to learn that the hard way.

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Over the years, I've killed a bunch of elk with both a 270 using 150 gr bullets and a 300 WSM with 180's. I never had a hit one get away with either caliber but I choose my shots. I don't just throw lead. I will say, though, that I feel like the ones hit with the 300 go down faster on the average. I've had some DRT's with the 270 but a lot more with the 300.

That said, I'm switching to a 30-06 strictly for the weight. I just bought a Ruger American that weighs a lb less than my Savage 300 WSM. At my age, that pound adds up after a day of steep mountains. The recoil of the 300 in this light rifle would be more than I want to deal with. The recoil of the 30-06 in the Ruger is about the same as the 300 WSM in the heavier Savage. I'll likely stay with the same 180 gr bullets that I've used for years in the 300.


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It's more to do with the wound channel than how the wound is made.

I've been a proponent of bigger wound channels but have been successful using a .257 Roberts and .25-06 and wouldn't be afraid to use either again. On elk though I'm partial to using my .338WM, as much because it is so accurate my confidence in it is unsurpassed, as it is very effective.


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I miss these threads.


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Yeah, a .>22-250 WILL KILL an elk if you hit him right. But in the heat of the moment will you hit him right? If you got a .270 use use it. Take your .243 Deer hunting.


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In my post above I'm talking like an elk authority and I've never been elk hunting in my life. But I have been Nilgai hunting and they seem similar in size. I didn't kill a Nilgai but I saw a few killed and they used everything from 25-06s to .300 Mags. One guy killed one with a .30-30. I just draw the line on small diameter bullets on big game. No way would I take a .243 Nilgai hunting. I would draw the line at a .270 and then only with a 150 grain bullet, preferably a Nosler Partition or something made to penetrate as well as a Partition.

To those on here that have a problem with a .243 or 6mm on deer, I have to say it depends on where you deer hunt. My first wife was from Missouri and her parents had a farm out of Booneville. The deer I saw up there were much larger body wise on average than in most places in Texas. I mean I can take you to South Texas and show you some monsters rack wise, but their bodies will rarely weigh more than 200 pounds. The deer in the hill country and around my home on the coast are relatively small compared to those in South Texas, much less up North. In Texas a .243 not only is adequate but even makes sense. Running a 100 grain bullet at 2950-3000 FPS is plenty lethal on an animal weighing less than 200 pounds. I've seen too many deer killed DRT with a .243 AND my own 6mm Remington.

Last edited by Filaman; 07/19/20.

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There is a guy here on the 'fire whose sig line quotes Bob Hagel...something to effect of,,,choose a rifle that works when everything goes wrong instead of a rifle that works when everything goes right.


Well this is a fine pickle we're in, should'a listened to Joe McCarthy and George Orwell I guess.
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