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Originally Posted by Rock Chuck
Ok, now that I've got things going on who has to earn what...

You work your tail off getting that big public land wall hanger elk & pack it out 3 miles on your back. Your neighbor goes on a canned hunt and gets one just as good but he shoots it from the back of a pickup in a fenced pasture. He buys his.
Is there a difference?


Yes. One of the above is a hunter, the other is an animal shooter.


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I would have no problem with adopting a downs syndrome kid on our varsity team and giving him a letter jacket. Everyone knows what is going on and the love shown to the kid and comradeship would be a blessing to the kid and the team. I remember how cruel kids treated downs syndrome children back in the 1950s in my elementary school. So embarrassing I didn't do anything to stop it.


"All that the South has ever desired was that the Union, as established by our forefathers, should be preserved, and that the government, as originally organized, should be administered in purity and truth." – Robert E. Lee
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Originally Posted by Steelhead
Of course there's a difference, but I'm in the business of doing what makes myself happy and not giving a flip what makes someone else happy.


I'm sure all those girls that earned it would agree

Last edited by ldholton; 03/28/15.
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What if the kid in the story was wearing a crucifix and someone bitched about it and the kid was told not to wear a crucifix?



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In general, I agree with antlers and others who say "why not?" - if it's good for the kid, let him wear the letter since that's where the kid's parents have put this situation. Any happiness or motivation of any kind he gets from wearing it will not diminish the significance of the earned letters being worn by the athletes. People understand this stuff.

This reminds me that somewhere around here there is a box with HS and college varsity sport letters that got removed from old jackets. Aside from a few nice memory recalls, those things are about worthless except when my grandkids root through that stuff for fun and ask about those days. Where do we place and live our emphases?

There is one comment in that article that DOES bother me a bit - has nothing to do with this kid's situation - but does have to do with recognition of excellence in our midst. More and more over the years I have seen trophies/lcertificates/letters/ribbons/etc. handed out will-nilly for "participation". Where did we lose it? Isn't patricipation a basic reason why folks engage team sports, etc.? So, why did we start handing out rewards for showing up?

Not simply in sports - but overall - how can it make sense to compromise recognition of excellent performance and great effort on the part of some people because sensistive feelings might arise on the part of those who were not so good and didn't get praised? This is life. None of us are good at everything, some are good at some things - and we all participated.

Hey - give me a "Z".


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Originally Posted by Rock Chuck
Ok, now that I've got things going on who has to earn what...

You work your tail off getting that big public land wall hanger elk & pack it out 3 miles on your back. Your neighbor goes on a canned hunt and gets one just as good but he shoots it from the back of a pickup in a fenced pasture. He buys his.
Is there a difference?


Not even close.

You're pissed because a kid with Down's Syndrome is wearing a meaningless letter on a silly HS jacket. He's earned more in life than most can imagine and even being able to play sports at all for him is an achievement.

Somehow, you equate that to "poaching".

None of this is in your town, or with your kid(s), or has anything to do directly with your life, yet you're torqued up about it enough to call it "wrong".

Think about that.


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America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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I bet you missed out on the varsity jacket for paragraph breaks..... [/quote]

and for being so long winded that the season was over before I made it to tryouts :-) BUT...IF it was like todays schools that my grandkids go to, everyone makes the team just because they want to regardless if they have athletic talent or not. I wouldnt have had to tryout..I would have got my letter anyway so "my feeling" (only have one) didnt get hurt :-) In this area, even last place gets a trophy...

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Originally Posted by Rock Chuck
Lets face it. Some kids are athletic enough to earn a varsity letter and some aren't.


That's not correct anymore, at least not around here. While the game time needed to letter in sports probably hasn't changed much, the opportunity to letter in something has drastically increased. A student can letter in choir, theater (including sets, etc.), academics, and even some types of volunteer hours, and the list goes on.

Giving the Downs kid a made-up letter is diminishing the kid and indicates lazy parents. I'd bet there is a niche the kid could succeed at on his own terms and actually earn the award.


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We had a black kid ( in his mid-thirties, but mentally very much a child) with Downs Syndrome in the small town I live in back in the late '90s. His name was Butch and he loved baseball with all his heart. He was less than 5' tall and had other related physical problems that slowed him down, but definitely didn't stop him. He worked 6 days a week at the local Piggly Wiggly sweeping, helping people with their groceries, etc. His most prized possession in life was an Atlanta Braves uniform that one of my uncles put together for him around a replica jersey. He had the pants, sleeved undershirt, rubber cleats, the works. When a 50 yr old POS crack addict lured him behind the old high school building and LITERALLY kicked him to death for the $26 that he knew Butch had, he was buried in that "Braves" uniform. Apparently, there are some here who would disagree strongly with that. After all Butch wasn't a real Atlanta Brave.
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At most, the "special" teams kids could have a different letter. But Varisity is what it is.

Personally I'm tired of making everybody special. But in any case, I wish the kid well.

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These are kids for crying out loud.Its a jacket,who cares.Yes I got the letter but never put in on a jacket.


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I must assume that all the misconceptions about downs kids are due to a lack of contact with them. Kids who have downs are very simplistic in many ways, are very loving and tender hearted. I have a bud with a boy who has downs he's 26 now and will graduate school this year. he loves me simply because I pay attention to him.

At work we have some downs kids come and shred documents for us they love the job, just one sheet at a time and they concentrate so hard to do a good job. If I'm around they all want to give me a high five with this great big smile on their face and the depth of love that is in their eyes is almost frightening. I don't know who's day is better for it theirs or mine.

Downs kids are very limited in what they can do, they have to put in so much more effort than you or I just to get through the day. I got a feeling that kid earned that varsity letter way before he ever met the other kids.


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I agree with jdm. I lettered at two different high schools. The first one meant something for about 20 seconds, the second one,a good bit less than that.
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If I was a letterman at that school I'd be embarrassed to ever wear a lettermans jacket again.

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12344mag, Excellent post. And true.
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Originally Posted by john843
12344mag, Excellent post. And true.
John

Absolutely, well said.

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It's a slippery slope, isn't it?

You want to have compassion for the Down's Syndrome kid, but counterfeiting is not the way to do it. He needs to find what he can excel at and excel at it, not pretend.

I had a DS neighbor who became an MD! He wasn't pretending, his parent's didn't counterfeit a med school diploma, he did it!

Is this any different from the guys who falsely claim to be veterans, Special Forces, etc.? That's the future behavior these parents are training their kid for!

We need to stop shilling for special needs kids and actually work with them on their level and celebrate their own accomplishments. Otherwise we just dilute the meaning of other kids' experiences.

My grandson's ROTC drill team has one or more special needs kids on the team. It is all well and good to let this kid participate, but what does it do for the others? My GS's team was mostly sharp as a tack, but what good is it if one member is dragging his rifle along the floor by the sling? I guess this is an opposite case? Instead of pretending the special needs kid could letter we pretend that the other team members can't cut it.

It's a difficult topic.


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Originally Posted by 12344mag
I must assume that all the misconceptions about downs kids are due to a lack of contact with them. Kids who have downs are very simplistic in many ways, are very loving and tender hearted. I have a bud with a boy who has downs he's 26 now and will graduate school this year. he loves me simply because I pay attention to him.

At work we have some downs kids come and shred documents for us they love the job, just one sheet at a time and they concentrate so hard to do a good job. If I'm around they all want to give me a high five with this great big smile on their face and the depth of love that is in their eyes is almost frightening. I don't know who's day is better for it theirs or mine.

Downs kids are very limited in what they can do, they have to put in so much more effort than you or I just to get through the day. I got a feeling that kid earned that varsity letter way before he ever met the other kids.


Exactly.

I lettered 3x over in HS. Until this thread, I didn't even recall that. It means that little to me today. To a kid with Down's? Hell, it may be a crowning achievement, and that's not meant as any kind of insult.

Let the kid rejoice; let him have something to have pride in.

JFC, if your life is so tied up in HS letters and who "earns them" or not, especially in a school not your own, or of your own kids, and likely generations removed from when you were in, then you've likely got more problems that the Down's Syndrome kid or his parents simply trying to make the best of it.


Originally Posted by Mannlicher
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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The kid is special, and I would think the rest of the "Letterman" would be proud to have him wanting to be "like them".

The heartless attitudes that simple selfishness has produced in America today troubles me, how anyone that has ever spent any time with child born autistic, or with downs, and would deny them a simple pleasure, is a man that is sadly missing what life is really about.


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Originally Posted by john843
We had a black kid ( in his mid-thirties, but mentally very much a child) with Downs Syndrome in the small town I live in back in the late '90s. His name was Butch and he loved baseball with all his heart. He was less than 5' tall and had other related physical problems that slowed him down, but definitely didn't stop him. He worked 6 days a week at the local Piggly Wiggly sweeping, helping people with their groceries, etc. His most prized possession in life was an Atlanta Braves uniform that one of my uncles put together for him around a replica jersey. He had the pants, sleeved undershirt, rubber cleats, the works. When a 50 yr old POS crack addict lured him behind the old high school building and LITERALLY kicked him to death for the $26 that he knew Butch had, he was buried in that "Braves" uniform. Apparently, there are some here who would disagree


strongly with that. After all Butch wasn't a real Atlanta Brave.


John


Did they catch the piece of garbage?

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