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Didn't do himself any favors on ABC this morning. Why can't politicians focus on economy and jobs instead of social issues?
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Gay marriage is a done deal. Gay rights are a done deal.
Seems silly to alienate voters on something that won't change.
You see, no matter how repugnant many of us may feel it is, it's past the tipping point. Young folks overwhelmingly support it, and we won't be changing their minds. To continue to fight it just makes those candidates irrelevant, and worse, a joke to younger voters.
Democracy is not freedom. Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to eat for lunch. Freedom comes from the recognition of certain rights which may not be taken, not even by a 99% vote.
*Marvin Simkin* L.A. Times (1992)
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I'll trade you my Governor for your's
My dog is a member of the "Turd Like Clan"
Covert Trail Cameras are JUNK
3 Time Dinkathon Champion #DinkGOAT
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Didn't do himself any favors on ABC this morning. Why can't politicians focus on economy and jobs instead of social issues? Because he was putting first things FIRST! Without Freedom (for whatever)...you don't have jobs or good social times!! It's NOT hard to see who the Ding-Dongs are!
Even birds know not to land downwind!
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Any and all businesses have the right to refuse service to anyone. At least we used to have that right.
I back Pence....... it will not be as big an issue as the media makes it. Or you Ding Dong.
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I'll trade you my Governor for your's Same here!
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GOP self destructing way before any elections...
Phil
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The Right of Association was somewhere in a Document..
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The Right of Association was somewhere in a Document.. We did away with that in the 1860s.
"My message to my troops is if you see anybody carrying a gun on the streets of Milwaukee, we'll put them on the ground, take the gun away and then decide whether you have a right to carry it." - Milwaukee Police Chief Ed Flynn
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I live in Indiana, and I'm on Pence's side. Dammed media has this thing all twisted around[like most liberals]. Businesses have the right to refuse service to anyone, just as YOU have the right to take your business elsewhere.
maddog
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Where the bleep do you people get the idea a business is entitles to discriminate. Just try to refuse to hire someone on the basis of race, sex or religious affiliation. You will be sued into the ground and you will lose. Been that way for quite some time. The same principle applies to service. That is settled law.
A case can be made for carving out a few specific niches for religious purposes, although as an example the Catholic church may have a hard time defending a claim t has the right to refuse service to homosexuals based on it's historic employment practices. I doubt many organizations could stand up to much scrutiny.
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I think it's clear who the JBTs are, and it ain't Pence supporters.
Islam is a terrorist organization.
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Chit my governor had the trump on stupid. The old signs stating , we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone , should mean just that
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ExtremeHunter16
Why don't do some of your extreme hunting in Gary. And when your done with that.
GFY
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I'll trade you my Governor for your's Me, too. I feel bad that he was unprepared to answer a simple question - "Under this law, is it okay for businesses to discriminate against gay people?" He said. "Ummmm,uhhh, welll,, you know.... Hoosiers don't discriminate". What he should have said is: "Our founding fathers wrote, and the states adopted, a Constitution that recognized that people of different faiths and beliefs would be free to live, work, and practice their religions without interference from the government.
Which is worse- someone denying to perform a specific service because that one specific service violates their religious beliefs, or a government which forces that person to violate their beliefs or lose their business and deprive them of their means of support? No one in the State of Indiana believes that any group should be discriminated against with a total denial of service just because they part of any class of people, whether due to race, creed, disability or sexual orientation.
In the spirit of religious tolerance and in recognition of religious liberty that was the foundation of our country, we in Indiana find it immoral and unconstitutional to force individuals to provide a specific service that violates their religious beliefs. However, the state will deal harshly with those that attempt to abuse this law to discriminate against any class of people by a complete denial of service just because they are of a specific class of people.
If we are to work together towards a more tolerant society, we must accept that tolerance is not a one-way street. We cannot force others to change their religious beliefs to conform with government or any special interest without losing the liberty hard-won by men and women 239 years ago - that we still hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness". The words of our founders were clear and their intent is pure, so much so that we must now oppose the actions actions of those that would intentionally and maliciously trample on the religious liberties of the good citizens of Indiana.
Last edited by WyColoCowboy; 03/30/15.
"And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor." ![[Linked Image]](http://www.rockymtnrefl.com/TetonFenceBarncd1985987.jpg)
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I live in Indiana, and I'm on Pence's side. Dammed media has this thing all twisted around[like most liberals]. Businesses have the right to refuse service to anyone, just as YOU have the right to take your business elsewhere.
maddog No, they don't. You can't deny service to a whole class of people. People that would deny service to women, those of other races, creeds and classes has long been adjudicated. No Irish, No Jews, No Blacks, No Women, No Wops, No Japs, No Cornholers. That being said, you can deny a specific service that would violate your religious belief. So, in other words, if a gay couple comes and asks you cater a birthday party, you should extend the same service to them as you would anyone. However, if that same couple asks you to cater their gay wedding and that event violates your religious belief, government cannot compel you to participate and you should be allowed to deny the specific service. The first example is wholesale discrimination, the second is the preservation of religious liberty. It is the specific service that causes the problem, not the class of the person. They aren't being discriminated against because they are gay. They are being denied a specific service because your religious beliefs will not allow you to participate in a sinful activity, whether that be a gay wedding, a plural wedding, DJ or bar tend at a swinger's party, or be forced to take pictures or video of any of the above.
"And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor."
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Campfire Kahuna
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I don't think that the idea of religious freedom is all that extreme. After all, it's in the Bill of Rights, eh?
Sam......
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]
No, they don't. You can't deny service to a whole class of people. People that would deny service to women, those of other races, creeds and classes has long been adjudicated. No Irish, No Jews, No Blacks, No Women, No Wops, No Japs, No Cornholers.
That being said, you can deny a specific service that would violate your religious belief. So, in other words, if a gay couple comes and asks you cater a birthday party, you should extend the same service to them as you would anyone. However, if that same couple asks you to cater their gay wedding and that event violates your religious belief, government cannot compel you to participate and you should be allowed to deny the specific service. The first example is wholesale discrimination, the second is the preservation of religious liberty. It is the specific service that causes the problem, not the class of the person. They aren't being discriminated against because they are gay. They are being denied a specific service because your religious beliefs will not allow you to participate in a sinful activity, whether that be a gay wedding, a plural wedding, DJ or bar tend at a swinger's party, or be forced to take pictures or video of any of the above. I am not so sure there remains a way to make even that as a claim. LCA and LCMS are branches of a single Lutheran church. One recognizes and ordains practicing homosexuals. One does not. Precisely the same situation in the Anglican (Episcopalian) church. I'd hate to guess how many Catholic marriages have been performed by practicing homosexuals with the church knowing, clearly no small number. Presented a legal challenge and the above facts, it would be very difficult for a defendant to claim religious belief. Personal belief yes, but then you could claim personal believe prevented you from providing the service in question to liberals, conservatives, rednecks, blondes or whatever. The courts would have to be living with Alice in wonderland to even consider getting even tangentially involved. I doubt you could craft a legal foundation based on the dogma of an outside entity and subject to the whims of current doctrine.
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Campfire Kahuna
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I live in Indiana, and I'm on Pence's side. Dammed media has this thing all twisted around[like most liberals]. Businesses have the right to refuse service to anyone, just as YOU have the right to take your business elsewhere.
maddog No, they don't. You can't deny service to a whole class of people. People that would deny service to women, those of other races, creeds and classes has long been adjudicated. No Irish, No Jews, No Blacks, No Women, No Wops, No Japs, No Cornholers. Really? Then how did Augusta National survive the continued attacks by the NAGS to allow women members? They only recently have agreed to do so, but by CHOICE - not gov't coercion... How about radical Muslims? Can I, or any business, deny offering services to those??? Or would we be forced by the AIC to allow ISIS fighters to practice a gun ranges if they needed a facility?? 
Ex- USN (SS) '66-'69
Pro-Constitution.
LET'S GO BRANDON!!!
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not an expert but the right to refuse service to anyone is just that - a single person who for whatever reason makes you as the owner decide you won't serve them
however - you can't reserve the right to refuse service to a class of people and if you state that you have a policy of doing so, it won't end well for you.
now is that limited to classes of people that are protected - race, gender, religion, handicapped, etc? I don't know
if Rand Paul were to be a serious contender for president, this is a major issue he'll have to fight because he believes strongly in individual property laws (as did Goldwater which is why he voted against the civil rights act) - and he believes that if you own a property , its your right to determine who with and how you conduct your business - and the basic laws of capitalism would determine if you stay solvent.
But the federal government, using the commerce act (intended for railroads in the 1850's) says otherwise.
Last edited by KFWA; 03/30/15.
have you paid your dues, can you moan the blues, can you bend them guitar strings
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