Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Optics New Bushnell Elite 3500

A lot of guys are puzzies too and apparently get scope eye quite often. I've never had a problem with the B&L or bushnell Elite series ER... Same goes for the new Zeiss Terra line. Oh know, wait for the whiners and snivelers. SLM, Scotty (steelhead). Come on, I'm waiting....

If fairness, everyone has their own comfort measure for what they want or need for ER. Today, with all the lightweight rifles out there, more ER is probably needed unless you're getting then in mild recoiling rifles. I happen to like rifles that typically weigh around 7.5 pounds or slightly more in my rifles chambered for 280 Ackley and 30/06, so I really don't need 4 inches of ER. Last year I got banged by my 50 cal ML that was wearing a Leupold 1.75-6 scope and it hurt like hell. That scope was one of Leupold older "shorty" models that didn't have the rubber ring around the eye piece either. IIRC, Leupold stated that scope to have 3 3/4 th's inches of ER at 6X. I was shooting the rifle in warmer weather and w/o a hunting jacket which is why I probably never noticed the ER needed prior to that. That same day, I also got brushed by my 300 WM which is a 9 lb rifle all up. That day was one of the reasons I bought that Leica ER scope that has a solid 4" of ER across the power range. Problem solved, regardless of what I wear clothing wise to the range from that day on.

I've had a few eyebrow stitches in my 50+ year long career as a Loony.

Once you've been "bit", you tend to be more careful and more sensitive to ER on kicking guns.

My "Weatherby" eyebrow was from a hot loaded 45-70 Marlin and I had one of those Widefield Redfields mounted a bit too far back. I was shooting heavy bullets pretty fast (young and stupid) and it took several sutures to close the laceration.

I learned that a 300 gr. 45-70 bullet at around 1,850 fps kills'em just as dead and beats up the shooter a lot less...

DF

Funny and true. Head wounds don't stop bleeding very easily either even if they are small. That 50 cal Knight ML kicked harder than any rifle I've owned and it was heavy too. 3 pellets and a 250 or 300 gr Barnes MZ bullet was quick death on whitetails though and it was very accurate.

One after thought, on that new Bushnell, they are still using a reticle that is to fine for low light. Bushnell !!!!!!!! Bring back the Firefly......please !

Yep, a scalp laceration can bleed like a stuck hog...

They usually look worse than they are and can be scary, especially when it's you...

DF

Most often more eye relief equates to a friendlier eye box or easier target acquisition- however you want to phrase it.
Not much of a issue shooting paper or sniping varmints but important trying to pick up a critter you jump up close.
There is more to eye relief than not whacking your eye brow.

Dirtfarmer,
That is the velocity I did with cast 300 grainers in my .454 revolver.

My eyebrow busting load was a heap more powerful that the one I now use...

DF

Seems I remember reading that ER is extended at the expense of FOV, a function of optical engineering.

I recall Bushnell coming out with their 6500 1.25-8x32, a 30mm, 15.8 oz DG type scope. As I recall, Dom (writing frog) was very critical of this scope. Bushnell specs said 6" ER, some write ups used a 5" ER value. At 1.25X, the FOV is 60'. A VX-6 1-6 has a low power FOV of 116', even the VX-6 2-12 has a low power FOV of 57'.

1.25X isn't that far from 1X, but the comparitive FOV is almost half the VX-6. So, for the extra 1" (or 2") ER, they gave up a bunch of FOV, which is an important consideration in a DG type scope.

Apparently the 6500 1.25-8x32 was not that well received.

DF

Dirtfarmer,

I am delighted with the 42' field of view of my 6500 2 1/2-16X42.

Rich, that scope was on my top pics when I was looking for a new scope for my 300 WM. IMO, it's "fine duplex" knocked it out of the running and I went with the Leica ER which has a bolder reticle. Honestly, I would have been even happier if it had a slightly bolder reticle, but because of it's superb glass, it's reticle lasts just a little longer into darkness than if it had, say just very good glass like the Elite 6500 does. Because of the intended uses of that scope, it's reticle is probably designed correctly seeing how it goes up to 16X at the top end.

In the Gun Writers section, John Barsness just did an article that very topic that's referred to as the optical triangle. Basically what it means is there is a balance between ER, FOV and magnification. Some would think that the size of a scopes objective lens would have a bearing on FOV, but I don't believe it does as you can check the specs on Leupold's website and compare two similar scopes with one having a 40mm obj and the other a 50mm obj. Generally, as ER increases, FOV decreases and naturally as magnification increases, FOV shrinks as well.

The good news is that now scope makers are finding if they monkey around with the ocular assembly (size mostly) they can get around the standards once set by this optical triangle. You'll see many new scope are coming out with much larger ocular assemblies, which allows them to use larger lenses with different grind angles to get more ER while still getting good FOV figures. Unfortunately, these larger ocular assemblies create a new set of problems, the most of which is bolt lift clearance. I originally had a 30mm set of low rings for my Rem 700 300 WM, but the bolt clearance was to close to work properly when wearing hunting gloves. I went to Leupold's QR med height rings and now it is perfect, while still sitting low enough to get a great sight picture when you throw up the rifle to your shoulder.

That's my number one complaint...the field of view.

I got rid of a Vortex Viper 2-7 because to my eye it was like looking through a paper towel tube.

I just picked up a Bushnell Elite 2-7 and the view is better but not that large, round, edge to edge view I'm used to seeing in a low powered scope. Optics are great though.

I like mine, too.

I really like the 2.5X, which is great for off hand shooting. I killed a nice Pronghorn last August, Kiowa Grasslands/NM at 80 yds. It was the only shot I had and I nailed him.

Here it is on an HS SPL, .240 in a Hunters Edge.

DF

Now THAT is one frickin sweet rig. Always liked those HS actions and their barrels are excellent too. It that a CeraKote finish or Black-T ?

In all my years of shooting I got scope bite once. Because I was a micheavous teenager and with some buddies showing off my gun actually aimed out my bedroom window, we lived in the country. Anyways I didnt know that much about shooting hp rifles then and was holding the gun wrong. All this whining about er learn to correctly setup your gun and shoot it right

I've never been overly concerned with FOV in my rifle scopes. I can't tell you what any of mine are to this day. I kind of put that scope characteristic in the same category as edge sharpness and color rendition.....really a non issue with me.

Since maybe 10% of my total rifle shooting occurs at the bench, I do value eye relief, as sometimes us hunters find ourselves in peculiar shooting positions.

Seems HS puts one finish on the exterior, another in the action. I'll have to research it, don't remember the specifics.

They do make their barrels in house, cut rifling as I understand. HS barrels look very good thru the Hawkeye borescope, not too unlike Brux, Krieger, etc. And they shoot about as well. I understand they also make pressure testing barrels for bullet and powder companies.

HS even builds their own trigger in house. It's all steel and has cut outs so everything is in the open and can be seen. Sorta the best of both worlds, a Remington type trigger, but with parts exposed, like the old M-70.

I researched the .240 thoroughly, ran a bunch of load combos thru this gun until I found the "sweet" load, which is a 100 gr. NPT over MRP with 210 Fed. That load is sub half inch at 400 yds., using brass made from .25-06 W/W cases with a special CH4D die.

That process was covered on an earlier Fire post. I'll find the link if you're interested.

DF

JG, you been using that VX-6 2-12x42 so long you don't remember what a bad scope looks like...

DF

Haha! You got me there DF.......spoiled me pretty good I'll admit, about like you and those badassss rifle/scope combos you've got!