Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles 7_08 Velocity

Seriously.. You're meeting and beating 280 AI, 7mm WSMs and RMs.

3350 fps out of a 08 case is nuclear hot, even with pixie dust and magic powder.

Either your chrony is jacked or you're a suicide bomber.

This is the kind of stuff that makes me skeptical of any "advice" I see on here about little cartridges doing the same things velocity-wise as big ones. Sorry to offend.I'm not buying it.

I'm not buying it either. No offense intended.

Good to know the eternal optimism of handloaders lives on.

Funny that the top velocity Barnes lists for the 120-grain TSX is around 3150 fps from a 24" barrel, but neither their latest manual or website lists any data for CFE223.

Hodgdon lists just about exactly the same velocity for CFE223 and the 120-grain Nosler Ballistic Tip--but doesn't list any for the 120 TSX. So I'm wondering where the "book max" came from?

Of course they probably don't list the REAL potential of any new powder....

DirtFarmer had 100 NPT's going 3,577 in his Swede.


























once.

He's loading some more.......primers were still round. He found 'em and checked.

Sure, the 3350 fps load was probably a little over pressure, which is why I settled on the afore mentioned load that runs 3275. You CAN NOT have "nuclear hot" pressure with zero pressure signs. I was skeptical after the first 6 round groups, so I loaded 6 more in the same brass, only neck sized(for the 3rd time) and they fit the chamber just fine. Primers were snug. Same velocity. I shoot about 10 different crappy rifles, so I know my chrony is at least consistant and in the ballpark. Btw this was a hodgdon book load for a 120 grain bullet.

Clever. Really. I am sad that after 14000 posts, you could not come up with something better.

I am not the only one getting these results. Powders are improving. Look at what the new Enduron powders are doing in the .243. 10 years ago, if someone claimed those velocities that are now tested, documented and common, you would have been flapping your gums just like you are now.

Define "nuclear hot." Are you saying it's impossible to be over pressure without overt signs?

I'd love to see someone run quickload on this, what was your barrel length again?

I'll stick with the load data currently at my finger tips. Nosler with their who-knows-why 26" barrel testing for the 7-08 maxed out at 3260 with their 120bt. Heck, Alliant was only able to push the 110sp to 3240...which probably doesn't matter as that bullet is history as far as I can tell.

Also, I was told long ago that primer cups indications are no fail safe. What if the primers cup happened to be harder than usual?

Plus, as has been said many times on here, dead is dead. 150 fps faster isn't going to kill them deader. Put it in the right place and get your knife out.

I am not giving any advice. I am only reporting what I have seen. I would hope one would be skeptical of everything they see on the Internet, then research and think things through.

"Nucleur hot" was Rancholoco's term, I was replying to him.
I think it very possible to slightly over pressure without obvious signs.
I think it is impossible to over pressure without signs to an extent that puts one in danger with a modern rifle.

The rifle is a 22" x-bolt.

For giggles...and yes I know it's quickload and there are limitations based on inputs. 22-in barrel, 2.8"OAL 7-08 Rem with 120 TTSX and 120 NOS BT.

120 TTSX first

Cartridge : 7 mm-08 Rem.
Bullet : .284, 120, Barnes 'TTSX'BT 28472
Useable Case Capaci: 47.971 grain H2O = 3.115 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.800 inch = 71.12 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder : Hodgdon CFE223

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 80 39.60 2593 1791 35723 8279 92.7 1.249
-18.0 82 40.59 2657 1881 38227 8518 93.8 1.214
-16.0 84 41.58 2721 1973 40919 8746 94.9 1.180
-14.0 86 42.57 2785 2067 43813 8961 95.8 1.146
-12.0 88 43.56 2849 2163 46926 9163 96.7 1.111
-10.0 90 44.55 2913 2261 50281 9351 97.5 1.077
-08.0 92 45.54 2977 2361 53898 9522 98.1 1.043 ! Near Maximum !
-06.0 94 46.53 3041 2464 57806 9677 98.7 1.012 ! Near Maximum !
-04.0 96 47.52 3104 2568 62030 9815 99.2 0.981 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-02.0 98 48.51 3168 2673 66602 9933 99.6 0.951 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.0 100 49.50 3231 2781 71563 10032 99.8 0.922 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0 102 50.49 3293 2890 76928 10111 100.0 0.895 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 104 51.48 3356 3000 82718 10168 100.0 0.868 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 106 52.47 3418 3112 89003 10214 100.0 0.842 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 108 53.46 3479 3225 95848 10255 100.0 0.817 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 111 54.45 3541 3340 103321 10291 100.0 0.793 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 100 49.50 3354 2998 86018 9618 100.0 0.859 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 100 49.50 3050 2478 57957 10051 96.0 1.006 ! Near Maximum !


120 NOS BT next...

Cartridge : 7 mm-08 Rem.
Bullet : .284, 120, Nosler BalTip 28120
Useable Case Capaci: 49.384 grain H2O = 3.206 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.800 inch = 71.12 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder : Hodgdon CFE223

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 78 39.60 2543 1723 33024 8291 91.7 1.295
-18.0 80 40.59 2606 1810 35334 8542 92.9 1.259
-16.0 82 41.58 2670 1899 37810 8781 94.0 1.222
-14.0 84 42.57 2733 1991 40468 9010 95.1 1.184
-12.0 86 43.56 2797 2085 43321 9226 96.0 1.147
-10.0 88 44.55 2860 2180 46368 9428 96.9 1.112
-08.0 90 45.54 2924 2278 49680 9615 97.6 1.078
-06.0 92 46.53 2987 2377 53225 9786 98.3 1.045 ! Near Maximum !
-04.0 94 47.52 3050 2479 57047 9941 98.8 1.014 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 96 48.51 3113 2581 61169 10077 99.3 0.983 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.0 98 49.50 3175 2686 65620 10195 99.6 0.954 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0 100 50.49 3237 2792 70422 10293 99.8 0.926 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 102 51.48 3299 2899 75578 10371 100.0 0.898 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 103 52.47 3360 3008 81147 10428 100.0 0.872 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 105 53.46 3421 3118 87178 10477 100.0 0.847 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 107 54.45 3481 3229 93721 10521 100.0 0.822 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 98 49.50 3304 2908 79031 9802 100.0 0.887 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 98 49.50 2990 2382 53056 10127 95.2 1.043 ! Near Maximum !

95,000 psi.....

My fellow, distinguished keyboard jockeys, I was/am not trying to push any limits here. As I said, the load I settled on is .6 grains below max on the hodgdon site for a 120 nbt. Sure, the velocity seems a little out there, but it is what I am seeing. (12 times for the max load, on 2 different occasions). Feel free to question my chrony, but I will tell you many different rifles have shot over that chrony and I personally do not have a reason to doubt it. For perspective, 45 grains of Varget and a 120 ttsx registers 3000 fps on that chrony. Seem about right?

You are pushing limits whether you are trying to or not. That's what everyone is trying to tell you.

Velocity is a very important indicator of pressure. There's no free lunch.

What everyone is questioning is your IQ.

The only one is seems about right to is you.

Wear safety glasses....

Load to velocity, not capacity.

If your load of CFE223 is at 48.9 and your getting those speeds then, I'd say you've got a real fast barrel...don't know what else to say. If it was me, I'd see if someone would let me run that load over their chrony, just to see what a different chrony would tell you.

Your varget load seems about right IMO, based on your 22" barrel, etc.

Would be willing to bet he's using a Shooting Chrony. Have seen one of them jump 10% in velocity due to a change in the light.

The magic new velocities (which amount to maybe 100 fps) in the .243 with Enduron powders are most likely due to using more accurate piezo-electronic pressure-test equipment, rather than older copper-crusher equipment. If you look at Hodgdon's data on their website, it shows the pressure for the Enduron powder in PSI (electronic) rather than CUP (copper crusher. Hodgdon has not made any claims about higher velocity levels with the Endurons.

Apparently you don't have the iq to understand that velocity DOES NOT EQUAL pressure. It can be an indicator, but only when variables don't change.
PRESSURE OVER TIME minus whatever resistance the bullet encounters, blowby, etc. Determines velocity. You have no way of knowing the TIME variable. You could, in theory have a load with half the peak pressure of another, but still produce more velocity. Simple physics. Peak pressure occurs in a very small portion of the barrel. Do you think that in the last 50 years of powder development, they juuuuust may have found ways to improve burn characteristics? i.e tweaked powders to have longer sustained burn at lower pressure? Or were they too busy going to the moon?

Found 6 example in 5 minutes of people getting similar results with cfe and ttsx.