Back in the late 70's when I shot my first WT deer, I accidentally shot through a 6-8" diameter oak tree at a running deer. Killed it using a 180gr Sierra SBT in the old Rem BDL 700. Guess I got pretty lucky.
Now I use a CZ550, 6.5x55 mostly. Even though I try not to shoot thru trees, it works very well.
.30-06 = about perfect for almost all North American game.
That also goes for the .308, .270, .280, 7-08, and many others. A bullet from any through the lungs will have nearly identical results as any of the others, maybe with a bit less recoil.
"Put none but Americans on guard tonight." -George Washington
The 30/06 is a fine cartridge, but it has not done anything for me that cartridges with less recoil have not done just as well.
John
If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
30.06 is very versatile for me. I can use it at distance, in woods, for heavy or light game, no premium bullet needed, plenty of barrel life, with not bad recoil, and all while shooting a .308 hole in things that tends to kill them quickly.
Only thing slightly more efficient is the 308 Winchester?
Is there anything it does that a say 270 or similar, smaller caliber, lighter recoiling rifle will not do?
What say you?
I cut my teeth on a 30-06 and for a number of years, I thought it was the end all, be all cartridge. I'm still a fan, but I have learned there are smaller calibers with less recoil that do just as well if not better.
24HCF in its entirety, is solely responsible for why my children do not have college funds, my mortgage isn't paid-off and why I will never retire early enough to enjoy the remainder of my life.
For North American game excluding big bears. Is there anything it does that a say 270 or similar, smaller caliber, lighter recoiling rifle will not do?
Not in my experience.
I think to see something more than, say, a 270 loaded with 150 NP's, would take more than one lifetime of hunting. And then, I genuinely believe you'd only see a difference with the 200 grainers in the 30-06, and then only occasionally. Maybe.
I like the 30-06, but I like the 308 and 270 better. They recoil less and do the same thing.
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
When I was buying my 1st rifle in the mid-70's conventional wisdom said 30-06 was middle of the road. Used one 40 years and I now say it is bigger than needed for 99% of American hunters. That does not mean it won't work and is very versatile, it is. But that is like buying an F-350 dually just to make runs to Walmart in the hopes that someday you MIGHT need to tow more than 5000 lbs.
If I never planned on hunting anything bigger than deer anymore I'd stay with a 243. One of the 6.5's should probably be considered middle of the road. Not too big for deer, and still capable of anything else in NA except big bears.
Most people don't really want the truth.
They just want constant reassurance that what they believe is the truth.
Is there anything it does that a say 270 or similar, smaller caliber, lighter recoiling rifle will not do?
What say you?
For non-reloaders, cheaper plinking ammo may be the most important feature of the .30-06.
We just bought a lefty rifle for Daughter #1 to use on this fall's antelope hunt (her third) and elk hunt (her first). While I would have liked to get her a .30-06 or .270, we ended up getting her a .308 Win.
I am not worried in the least that the .308 will be inadequate when compared to a .30-06. I will likely be using a .280 myself even though I have three .30-06's in the safe.
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
1) If choosing a rifle to do it all save bears in NA, and the hunter was a non reloader, is I.e. a 270 going to give up anything; or better yet be found lacking?
2) Seems to me as popular as the 06, 300s, 7RM are I wonder if the bulk of hunters who get little range time would be better off with a more shootable round.
Having owned both I really never cared for the 06. Ruger laminate sporter And yes a hard butt pad. Enjoyed shooting my 8lb 338-06 I had more than the 06 with 165s. Used 200-225 in 338 but did have a plastic stock and deceleration pad.
Personally not a thing I would not hunt outside bears with a mild 26-28 caliber using proper bullets. But I realize for many a more logical choice for all out ammo availability would be 270 and 308.
I think that for most "average" shooters a fairly lightweight 30-06 (like a fwt or mountain rifle) is a bit more than they are comfortable shooting, even more so with the heavier bullet weights. Given that, if I hunted primarily moose, in grizzly country, I'd probably be happier packing an 06 than most anything smaller on a 308 case. I am a big 270 fan (flat trajectory, very effective on deer at longer ranges and very reasonable recoil level). The biggest animal I have taken with one is a black bear, or several big mule deer which were heavier than that bear. I would have no hesitation hunting moose with a 270 and decent bullets though.
The '06 is nice for elk, and I wouldn't hesitate with it on big bears or moose. For anything smaller it could be considered excessive-definitely works though!
As I have gotten older I am more and more convinced that American Sportsman usually use guns too large for the task , and likewise fish with tackle thats excessive.
Course...I 'stunt shoot' deer with a .22cf and fish for pike with ultralight tackle, so I might be the wrong guy to chime in here...
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
The 30-06, in NA, does anything well and nothing perfectly. If you wanted to own a single rifle for everything (few of us on the 'Fire) it may be the best.
Nut
Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.
Is there anything it does that a say 270 or similar, smaller caliber, lighter recoiling rifle will not do?
What say you?
I wouldn't say the 30-06 is "too much" but its "ability" is not needed for any North American big game except big bears. Many hunters would be better off with something like a .280, .270 or a .308 but their egos get in the way.
As some have said here and in the past, a quality 200 gr. bullet in an '06 is a formidable combination for the largest of our big game including all of the bears.
My home is the "sanctuary residence" for my firearms.
Hard for an animal to be "TOO DEAD" and easy for an animal to be "NOT DEAD ENOUGH" I tend to lean towards heavy guns then lighter on game bigger then deer. The 06 would not be considered out of place anywhere though.
Well, there's hardly much difference when you use monos between the performance of .22 caliber 53 grain bullets and 180 grain 30 caliber bullets on deer. The holes look about the same and the bullets go all the way through all the time or very nearly so.
A 30-06 with 130 grain monos will work nicely on any NA game. It's mild. A 270 with 110 grain monos will do the same and be virtually indistinguishable from the '06 in terms of recoil/muzzle blast. A 243 with an 85 grain TSX at 3450 (4451) surprised me that it was so much like an '06 with 130s last week. I doubt I'd choose a 243 for shooting big bears as a first choice, but I have no doubt it'd work if it had to.
It comes down to what bullet and how fast do you push it in today's world.
100+ years and we just now getting around to saying it's not needed. Seems like whoever hates on the 30-06 is always the ones who can't handle the recoil, or they have a 7 Rem mag. The .308 is the 30-06's little brother that always tries to outdo his big brother but never can...
The 30-06 is comparable to the V-8 engine in passenger cars. For decades the V-8 was pretty much the norm, and that is what we all thought we should have. And we were happy with our V-8s for a long time.
Now V-6s and turbocharged four cylinder engines power 98% of the passenger cars sold. You can't even get a Cadillac with a V-8 engine anymore.
Like the 30-06, in today's world the V-8 engine is not as fuel-efficient, and it is more engine than is usually needed in a car. Just as the 30-06 may be more cartridge than is needed by most hunters for most game.
But, like the V-8 engine, it gets the job done without breaking a sweat, just as it always has, and it does the job with class and an outstanding heritage of over 100 years of service to hunters and the military.
I still enjoy V-8 engines, and 30-06 rifles. To me they have a lot in common.
Nifty-250
"If you don't know where you're going, you may wind up somewhere else". Yogi Berra
Leave the varmints, women, and children out of the discussion.
It's the baseline,safe harbor, center of the ballistic universe in hand- carried, shoulder- fired BG rifles.Most cartridge development has centered around improving on it somehow while still approaching its performance with bullets heavier and lighter.
Even people prone to hating it,inclined to pets bigger and smaller,have to admit that, if dumped unceremoniously in a remote location where BG animals are hunted,anywhere on the planet,with a 30/06 and proper ammo,know there's not much they can't kill,and they will be successful,ballistic theory notwithstanding.
Only maybe for less than a double handful of BG animals world wide might it be prudent to bring something bigger.And it isn't ridiculously "too much" for the rest.
As I said in another thread, if I was reduced to hunting everything in North America with just one cartridge/rifle/scope combination, the rifle would be chambered for the .30-06. I have used it on coyotes, Texas whitetails (that wouldn't break 100 lbs live-weight), pronghorns, elk and bison. It always worked, and worked well.
Ben
Some days it takes most of the day for me to do practically nothing...
I think it's more than is needed but there's a bigger picture associated with this cartridge...and that's it's availability. It's available in a large variety of power levels, reloading components, rifles that chamber it, etc. 30-06 is to hunting rifles, what the 9mm is to pistols.
I owned more rifles in 30-06 than any other cartridge. I don't care for the recoil but if I want a particular rifle, chances are I'm getting it in 30-06. I just bought a Husqvarna 1640 and my options were the 9.3 or 30-06...I bought the 30-06.
Stop screwing around with the 30-06. For whitetails on down a I'd recommend a 204 Ruger, and for elk on up a 458 Lott is more prudent.
The 30-06 has a bad enough reputation for killing things it's pointed at, stop using it and go hug something that really needs more love in this world, like an abused southern pine tree or a poor, innocent porcupine.
I like the 06, it is or can be loaded up, down, heavy or light to make it suitable for heavy to light game animals and to manage recoil.
In regard to recoil it's been my experience that within the mid range non magnum .277-.30 caliber cartridges how the rifle is stocked and how it fits an individual has about as much to do with recoil as what it's chambered in.
The 30-06 is a good choice for an individual who is a hunter rather than a hunter/firearms enthusiast like most of us.
I have 2 30-06 rifles. One is sighted in for 150 gr. bullets and I use it for deer and antelope with perfect results. Timber load goes 2700 fps and the open country load gets 3000 fps. The other is sighted in for 180 gr. Nosler Partitions pushed near 2800 fps. It is my general purpose elk rifle. To say recoil is an issue is foolish. You can buy over the counter light recoil loads. You can load 110 gr. Speer Varminters to 1500 fps for a fine practice load, many variations of cast bullets, many varmint weight bullets on up. There are many bullets well suited to loading the 30-06 to more mild power levels with proper bullet expansion. We would have been wise to have our hunting population to stick to this round instead of the many different cartridges that may be hard to get ammo for in a crunch. The 30-06 gives up nothing to the 270 concerning trajectory.
You have to realize that when this round was first introduced we didn't have the bullets that we have today. Sure with premiums like NP and TSX you can use smaller calibers on large game but until 40 years ago, you needed bullets with more weight in order to assure adequate penetration even on deer. Thus the -06 with 180's was the gold standard on deer and everything else. Is it "needed" today? Not really. But with bullets from 100 to 220gr you can load it to do anything you want.
I am continually astounded at how quickly people make up their minds on little evidence or none at all. Jack O'Connor
I have shot more game from 5 continents with a .270 Winchester using mainly 130 grain bullets a few 140's and a handful of 150s. These animals generally weigh between 30 and 700 pounds. Sometimes you use what you have in your hand regardless of preferences. That said; IF I was limited to just one rifle for hunting I'd go with a middle weight .30-06, scoped with mid-range variable, a variety of factory loads in several weights and never worry about too much gun or too little. I am not so limited and I prefer to hand load so while I believe in the "all-around" capabilities of the .30-06 I don't use mine as much as I could because I have other choices. A well constructed premium .270 bullet will often suffice but the edge for me has to go to the '06 simply because within normal hunting distances I can tackle a pronghorn, a deer, a coyote or a big bull elk or moose on a single hunt and I know I can break big bones if the need arises. Better a tad bigger than I need seems to have worked well for me rather than wish I had more gun to take the shot. m2cts
Why does a man who is 50 pounds overweight complain about a 10 pound rifle being too heavy? SCI Life Member 4**
It's more than I generally use if I'm only after caribou - though certainly not too much there- but it's where I like to start as a baseline for moose, because I have used less.
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
What Lars68, Palidun and others said. As a "deer rifle" and up it's got a lot of versatility. Mine shoots everything from 110s to 180s well. If you handload you can pretty much dial up a combination of bullet weight and velocity in a recoil range that most shooters can handle. Even if you don't handload there's a good range of commercial loads.
I like the 30-06 as there is a lot of versatality and ammo availability.
That having been said I like the 270 Winchester better for my purposes (deer hunting)as it has less recoil and still kills our deer 150-250 pounds just as well if not better than the 06.
And if I decide to go Elk hunting I believe the 270 Winchester with either the Barnes 130 Grain TTSX,winchester 140 grain Accubond or the Federal premium with the 150 grain Partition would do just fine.
I dont think the 06 is too much gun but if the 270 Winchester will work just fine why put up with the extra recoil from the 30-06
So for me its not a matter of the 30-06 being too much gun its a matter of the 270 Winchester being better !!
I hated the 30-06 for the first 30 years of my life. It did nothing well - my 7 RM shot flatter, my 338 hit harder, my 45-70 was my hammer. In my 30's I started hunting more states and areas. I retained my bias and disdain for the 06 - till I started seeing it in action by the old grizzled guys that kept showing up with them. My grandfathers 06 has that blue-all-worn-off, white look. He probably only killed about 10,000 deer and bears with it over its 40+ year lifetime. My dad's used one for most of his adult life, my uncle - you get the picture.
I didn't own one till I was likely late 30's and it was a TC Encore pistol. I thought that about the right weapon for a 30-06. I killed deer with it with aplomb (a bullet really, plumbs are too soft in hunting season LOL). As I matured as a hunter - and tried out a bunch of different cartridges - I came to see the balance of killing power, tolerable recoil, and actual effect on game of a wide variety of calibers/cartridges/bullet combos. It was a hard day when I realized my Dad, uncles, and grandfather had it right all along. I still struggle with accepting the ole 06, mainly because it is vanilla ice cream.
I did come around to a 30-06 about 6-7 years ago when I was looking for a SS Ruger UL in 308. I couldn't find one but did find a smoking deal on a 30-06. I reasoned I could get 'full' 308 vels from my 20" barrel 30-06 UL using 150 to 180 grain bullets. I bought it and it has become one of my favorite guns, mostly due to the Ruger UL package. I did develop some 180 gr Horn IL loads for it and keep threatening to take it elk hunting. I get almost 2700 ft/sec from the 180's using H4350. The only thing keeping it home is my M70 300 WSM, my second favorite rifle. I'm thinking about the UL again because I'm doing a backpack hunt. A short 7.5 lb scoped 30-06 flinging 180's is dang handy. I'll likely use my go-to elk gun - M70 300 WSM.
In the end, I don't see how a 30-06 is ever a wrong choice in NA except for the large carnivores. Phil S says its enough and I believe him. I'd likely drag my 35 whelen along for the ride if after big bitey things. A 250 Partition has a way of settling things down.
1) If choosing a rifle to do it all save bears in NA, and the hunter was a non reloader, is I.e. a 270 going to give up anything; or better yet be found lacking?
Anyone who hunts all of North America travels by air. At some point, an airline will lose his gear, so he’ll need to buy ammo. For that reason alone, I choose the 30/06 above all others. The one thing it does better than any other cartridge is to be in stock on the shelves of places that aren’t really gun shops, like gas stations and hardware stores, all over rural America.
Okie John
Originally Posted by Brad
If Montana had a standing army, a 270 Win with Federal Blue Box 130's would be the standard issue.
Is there anything it does that a say 270 or similar, smaller caliber, lighter recoiling rifle will not do?
What say you?
I think the difference in most if not all of the cartridges created to mimic 30-06 performance is minimal and mostly all in our heads based on what we read or have been told over our lifetimes.....in other words, a bunch of bs. What one will do another will do. They are all deadly as hell if their bullets are put into vital spots. So I agree with going where your post wants to lead me.
My only thing is that I have never gotten the idea that a .308 or .270 is a pussy cat to shoot and a 30-06 is a monster. Load a 150 in all of them and I can't tell the difference. Actual recoil in all of them is negligible to me.....it is the muzzle blast that gets me flinchy if I don't concentrate and they are all plenty loud. Point being if you are getting beaten down by a 30-06, you might be disappointed if you get a .270, .280, .308 win or anything else that shoots a similar weight bullet at a similar speed in an effort to escape recoil. It may be the noise (even wearing ear muffs) that bugs you or maybe not shooting enough. That said, I realize recoil is subjective and people react to it differently and there are people who evidently see a great difference.
Worst thing I ever shot was a 12 gauge shotgun with a 3 and a half turkey load. That SOB hurt and left a mark....nothing subjective about it!
"Men must be governed by God or they will be ruled by tyrants". --- William Penn
My only thing is that I have never gotten the idea that a .308 or .270 is a pussy cat to shoot and a 30-06 is a monster. Load a 150 in all of them and I can't tell the difference. Actual recoil in all of them is negligible to me.
For deer sized game I think that the 30-06 with 150gr bullets at 2910 fps is just right. Of course a 280 with 140gr bullets at 3000 fps and a 270 with 130gr bullets at 3060 fps are just right too.
My only thing is that I have never gotten the idea that a .308 or .270 is a pussy cat to shoot and a 30-06 is a monster. Load a 150 in all of them and I can't tell the difference. Actual recoil in all of them is negligible to me.
^^^This!
I can tell the difference between a 130 Grain 270 factory load and the same brand ,shooting the same brand/type of rifle 30-06 150 or 165 grain at the bench or practicing offhand ,kneeling etc.
Yet the 270 130 grain seems to kill deer Just as well as the 06 with 150 or 165 grain.
It should as the Ballistic coefficient of say Sierra Boat tail bullets are listed as
.277 SBT BC-.436 SD-.242
.308 150 grain SBT BC-.380 SD-.226
.308 165 Grain SBT BC-.404 SD-.248
Using the data here it can be seen that the 270 Winchester .277 130 grain bullet better compares with a 165 grain bullet .308 bullet. A bit flatter trajectory,a bit less wind drift ,a bit higher velocity,Quite a bit less recoil using the 30-06 165 grain as a baseline.
30-06 is a great round and I have killed more deer with it than any other round BUT for deer size game the 270 Winchester is a BIT better.
I really wouldn,t feel under gunned shooting the 30-06 compared to the 270 .
I have read that the 30-06 is the "life time rifle".
I think our generation owns a variety of guns in a variety of cartridges but I can tell my father owned just one gun, my friends grandfather owned one rifle, one shotgun and one 22. I sometimes look at my assortment of guns and wonder why I can't satisfied with just a few...I guess the marketing machine is more powerful than my resistance!
My only thing is that I have never gotten the idea that a .308 or .270 is a pussy cat to shoot and a 30-06 is a monster.
I agree. The most unpleasant rifle I had was 700 ADL in .270. I hated the muzzle blast and it was just downright painful to shoot for some reason. I've never noticed that the 30-06 is much of a kicker at all until you get up to hot 180 hand loads. Then it thumps a little more than some others.
All that said, yeah, for deer the 30-06 is probably overkill. But so what? It works, is easy to shoot, and can be had in relatively light and short rifles. If you are just a guy who hunts and not a rifle loony, it can't be beat.
The .270 was the logical evolutionary improvement over the '06.
It's about perfect for the '06 case.
Better sectional density means the .270 retains velocity and energy longer.....that's more efficient.
A quality 150 grain .270 bullet will take any North American game and most game on the planet for that matter. Same goes for the .280 which is almost identical.
The Tea Party Movement is pretty much the same as a bowel movement except that it smells worse and has far less in the way of intelligent content. --DancesWithGuns
The .270 was the logical evolutionary improvement over the '06.
It's about perfect for the '06 case.
Better sectional density means the .270 retains velocity and energy longer.....that's more efficient.
A quality 150 grain .270 bullet will take any North American game and most game on the planet for that matter. Same goes for the .280 which is almost identical.
Loaded to equal pressures, the 30-06 will get more velocity than a .270. So, it is about a wash. Start faster or start slower and slow down slower, it is all the same in the end.
IMHO if I lived in the west where I could regularly hunt elk and moose and possibly run into a bear then I would think the 30-06 would be the ideal all arounder. Here in the east as a deer hunter then yes it is probably a bit more than is needed.
I am a fan of the 30/06, it may be a touch much for East TN whitetails but it has been effective. I can not warm up to a .270 Win, no idea why I just can't like'm. I shoot 130's from my 30/06 Ti and 180's from my Ruger MKII when I use the 30/06.
From looking around
270 Win with a 150 has around 16lbs recoil 30/06 with a 150 has around 17.5lbs recoil 30/06 with a 180 has around 19.5lbs recoil My 20 gauge with a 3" turkey load has over 30lbs recoil My 12 gauge with a 3" turkey load has over 50lbs recoil
I don't really think a 30/06 is a good 1st gun for a kid unless they can get some good reduced loads but I've not seen an adult that can't handle one.
I mainly shoot my .243 Win for everything now though.
I don't think anybody can say the 30-06 is too much gun.
Yeah. I can...
And not for any particular game animal, but for many circumstances where critters are shot the 30-06 is simply too much rifle. Flat land where the rural roads are laid out in township grids, and a school bus or feed and seed truck can pass by anytime call for a rifle that has easily frangible bullets.
There simply is no reliably frangible bullet available in .308 diameter.
Thus my decades long affair with the .243, and more lately the 25-06.
Too much gun for some shooters, probably so. Especially younger or inexperienced ones.
I cannot agree more.
For the typical hunter who's not into all the silliness that comes with being a firearms enthusiast, a 30-06 could give a lifetime of excellent service, and keep the chest freezer filled each year.
THE CHAIR IS AGAINST THE WALL.
The Tikka T3 in .308 Winchester is the Glock 19 of the rifle world.
IMHO if I lived in the west where I could regularly hunt elk and moose and possibly run into a bear then I would think the 30-06 would be the ideal all arounder. Here in the east as a deer hunter then yes it is probably a bit more than is needed.
Very sensible. .30-06 (168 gr.) is my elk gun and if I ever draw for moose, just reload a heavier bullet. Recently purchased a .243 for deer and antelope.
Thanks Bearcat,I am going to run the chart using 3050 for the .277 130 and the .308 at 2900 for the 150 and 2800 for the 165 to represent factory ammo.
I used to use Handloads.com but cant get it to load today
I don't think anybody can say the 30-06 is too much gun.
Yeah. I can...
And not for any particular game animal, but for many circumstances where critters are shot the 30-06 is simply too much rifle. Flat land where the rural roads are laid out in township grids, and a school bus or feed and seed truck can pass by anytime call for a rifle that has easily frangible bullets.
There simply is no reliably frangible bullet available in .308 diameter.
Thus my decades long affair with the .243, and more lately the 25-06.
Nice, this will be the next liberal agenda. They will ban the 30-06 because it can kill school buses and seed and feed trucks.... Please elaborate with some stats that show school buses and trucks being shot with rifles, and the 30-06 being the most deadly/damaging...
It could often be more gun than required for a particular job, just as it can give up some to 33/35 stuff on the same or shorter cases, for other jobs. Need has beans to do with caliber choice for rifle looneys. My love/hate for the '06 revolves around it's versatility: I have to constantly tell myself that it's a compromise, so I can shoot something (arguably) better matched to the job at hand. If I had to walk out the door and consider that any critter in the lower 48 might pop up out to 500, I'd hope I had really hot-rodded one of my .358s with some accubonds, or just grab a damned '06 and some 180s.
I find it remarkable we are still talking about this subject.
I have hunted solely with a 30-06 for the past 12 years. Whitetail, pronghorn, Mule Deer, cow elk, bull elk. I aim my 30-06, pull the trigger, and go retrieve the animal.
Is the recoil too much? I don't know, I shoot 180s mostly at 2775-2800 fps. In my 7.5 lb (scoped) rifle (6.75 lbs bare) it is reasonable. I shoot it a lot too, not just 2-3 rounds a year. I once put more than 100 rounds through in a range session, but I mostly shoot 40-60.
I have a few rifles in my safe. I have another at my gunsmith's. The truth be known that 30-06 is still my favorite rifle. Thinking about some hunts this Fall (if my back is up to it). My 06 is all I need.
I have a few rifles in my safe. I have another at my gunsmith's. The truth be known that 30-06 is still my favorite rifle. Thinking about some hunts this Fall (if my back is up to it). My 06 is all I need.
It will out live all of us.
Good man Randy...
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
I love the 30-06 classy with history. I currently only have 2 in the safe a Kimber 84L Classic Select and a Tikka 695 Hunter. Both are consistently sub MOA shooters with 150 thru 180 grain bullets I haven't tried lighter or heavier. I don't think its too much rifle for deer I prefer to call it power to spare. A 30-06 in my hands always just feels right.The only problem I can see with it is its popularity.The average few shots a year hunter does some research and decides the 30-06 will cover anything they plan on hunting and purchases one and they have made a great choice.The problem comes when its time to shoot it.The 30-06 just has too much recoil for the occasional shooter most wont admit it because do to its popularity they must be a wimp if it is kicking them silly.
JOHNW; Hate to disagree with you but,....wait. No I don't. There are too many reduced loads offered by ammo manufacturers down to the .30-30 level for there to be any argument that the -.06 is too much cartridge. In addition, there are reduced loads in manuals which are even further down on the scale. No reason whatsoever to not own an -.06. WILL.
DON'T SWEAT THE SMALL STUFF:......IT'S ALL SMALL STUFF! D@MN; I miss my meds. THE WINDS OF TYRANNY HAVE SHIFTED. BETTER TIMES AHEAD.
Does a 30-06 recoil too much? Is that the sorry state of shooters today? That sure seems to be different than when I was a kid. Could it be more of a reflection of the fact that most of today's shooters do so almost exclusively from the bench than from field positions. And from the bench, almost anything bigger than a .243 can on occasion deliver a sharp rap to your shoulder.
I have 3 30/06s at present,and am having another built this summer.
I never owned one that didn't shoot 180gr bullets very well. Even a 12 twist Mark X.
Gimme an Otter6 that shoots a good 180gr pill into little bitty groups,and I could finish out my days in blissful ignorance of all other rounds. (if this M700 build goes well that's just what will happen)
Respectfully,Otter6.
"Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."
Growing up under the influence of Jack O'Conner writings in "Peterson's Hunting" magazine I opted for the 270 win. Whitetail deer was the only big came I would be hunting and as a tall skinny kid the 30-06 was more cartridge than needed on the front end and back end. The .270 always worked.
Not too much; as others have said, just right for a "good enough for everything" rifle. That's why, when I came back to hunting after college, I bought one.
On the other hand, as a rifle loony I head afield with my 257 AI every year... As well as my 06, my 6-250, 7x57, 223, etc, all of which do nicely.
No, especially if its your only one. Its pretty much the measure for other cartridges. Shootable bullet weights, velocity, recoil, and powder used doing it. Kinda like vanilla ice cream. I would rather shoot prairie dogs all day with a 30-06 than bear hunt with a 223.
We have soooo many choices of calibers and rifles I have to wonder how they made something so good as the 30-06 so long ago.
I do not think this discussion would be possible if it wasn't for the 30-06 and the freedom it has protected.
A man only learns in two ways, one by reading, and the other by association with smarter people.
Too much gun is only a minor sin compared with too little.
Couldn't agree more. Sure the '06 is more than I need for the deer and hogs I shoot. But when I pull the trigger, I'm absolutely confident that if the animal doesn't die within 10 seconds it sure ain't the gun's fault.
Good stuff. Mackey - don't you shoot a Springfield short?
To the point on longevity n history, it is not by chance the 06 has downed so much game, yet part of the fact surely is a matter of how many of them are used afield.
My use was mostly w a Ruger laminate w hard pad. As well as a buddy's FN w same. Both using top loads in 165gr.
Yes various loads are had in light bullets for loaders and reduced factory. Yet I pose the question for factory ammo. Having driven a .277 150 PT neck to ham on a Mulie I cannot imagine it not busting bone. I also ran ballistic tips often in 150. I know the 140 fail safe loads were said to also dump elk readily.
"I would rather shoot prairie dogs all day with a 30-06 than bear hunt with a 223."
I've shot quite a few prairie dogs with my 30-06. When I was a kid it was either that or a 22 long rifle...Using it on prairie dogs taught me a lot about field shooting and made me pretty familiar with that rifle and cartridge. I now have several other rifles but my '06 is still my favorite. I would be hard pressed, though, to say it is better or more capable than a 308, 270 or 280.
I suspect had I inherited a 270 from my father rather than a 30-06, the 270 would be my favorite...funny the things that endear rifles to us...
Good stuff. Mackey - don't you shoot a Springfield short?
To the point on longevity n history, it is not by chance the 06 has downed so much game, yet part of the fact surely is a matter of how many of them are used afield.
My use was mostly w a Ruger laminate w hard pad. As well as a buddy's FN w same. Both using top loads in 165gr.
Yes various loads are had in light bullets for loaders and reduced factory. Yet I pose the question for factory ammo. Having driven a .277 150 PT neck to ham on a Mulie I cannot imagine it not busting bone. I also ran ballistic tips often in 150. I know the 140 fail safe loads were said to also dump elk readily.
Thank for sharing your experience.
65BR,
It appears that the whole point of this thread was to reassure yourself that your personal choice of the 270 cartridge is a better choice as an all-around cartridge because the 30-06 is just a little bit too much of a good thing, and the hard pads on those two 30-06 rifles hurt you a little too much.
Well, rest assured, the 270 is a fine all-around cartridge and you can be happy with it for the rest of your days. The 270, as well as several other cartridges can do a thing or two slightly better than the 30-06, and in a dozen other areas your 270 will do almost as well as the 30-06.
The animals won't be able to tell the difference, and if you put a good pad on a 30-06 with a stock that fits well, you won't be able to tell the difference, either.
Nifty-250
"If you don't know where you're going, you may wind up somewhere else". Yogi Berra
I don't think anybody can say the 30-06 is too much gun.
Yeah. I can...
And not for any particular game animal, but for many circumstances where critters are shot the 30-06 is simply too much rifle. Flat land where the rural roads are laid out in township grids, and a school bus or feed and seed truck can pass by anytime call for a rifle that has easily frangible bullets.
There simply is no reliably frangible bullet available in .308 diameter.
Thus my decades long affair with the .243, and more lately the 25-06.
We can't be serious? Are we?
Pretty sure the 243 and 25-06 have hunting bullets that are not frangible.
Doesn't Horny Daddy have a 110 V-Max that is frangible? There, now go use a 30-06. No excuse that it is not "factory loaded".
Talking to you is like trying to nail jello to the wall.
True that loading the lighter weight bullets Cuts down on recoil
But it also cuts down on performance as Ballistic coeficient and Sectional density go way down .
That's where the versatility of having many different bullets to choose from comes in.
Besides light bullets, you can shoot heavies. Remember, the subject is the chambering, not the bullet.
Remember that I quoted You . You said the recoil was cut way down using the lighter bullets. Then when reminded that such bullets are not very efficient you remind me of the subject ?
You tried to make a point that the Chambering(30-06)kicked less with the lighter bullets then when I mentioned that they were not very efficient you now want to mix words and not talk about them. When talking about the chambering and op question the bullets are part of the equation. Thats some funny chit !
Is there anything it does that a say 270 or similar, smaller caliber, lighter recoiling rifle will not do?
What say you?
Its not legal in Alaska to hunt Bison with a rifle with performance under 30/06 with bullets 200 grains benchmark.
This isn't shooting a bison on a farm from a fence post but fighting through brush and swamps in close proximity.
There is a story about how a Pipeline 798er tried to engage a bison with a 270 Weatherby and ended up wounding the bison bull which tried to exact revenge. It chased him through the brush for more than 50 minutes before it lost interest.
I am taking my 338 Nosler 48 TGR for my bison hunt this October. My iron sighted 458 Win Whitworth will go along as a camp rifle. Sincerely, Thomas
Just a few thoughts on .30-06, light bullets and efficiency....
It is true that light bullets reduce recoil. It is also true that they have lower sectional density and ballistic coefficients. All of which is meaningless unless given some decisional parameters.
Frankly, the idea of a .22 Accelerator load in a .30-06 has always intrigued me. For light varminting of just plain fun, what is wrong with a 55g V-MAX cranking along at 4200fps MV? In a standard weight .30-06 that is about 11.5 ft-lbs recoil and MPBR zeroed for a 6" diameter target, the bullet is down only about 5.5" at 400 yards. At 300 yards retained velocity and energy are in the neighborhood of 2942fps and 1057fpe. Compare that to 150g Winchester .30-30 ammo that runs closer to 1400fps and 651fpe at that range. Granted that accuracy may suffer, accelerators still sound like a lot of fun. Great elk load? Probably not, but who cares?
Don't like Accelerators? How about a 110g Hornady V-MAX or Barnes TAC-TX at 3400fps? Should be good for up to deer-sized game to about 400 yards where a 6" MPBR results in a drop of about 12" with retention in the neighborhood of 2175fps and 1150fpe. And with recoil under 15 ft-lbs. Sounds to me like a good pair of loads with lots of practical uses, including light varminting, antelope and deer.
Hunting elk? Bump it up to a 130g or 150g TTSX at 3200fps and 3000fps respectively. Feeling undergunned? Why, when you're basically talking the same velocity and energy at 400 yards as a .30-30 delivers at 50?
Low efficiency? As defined by and compared to what, exactly - and even then, who cares? The last thing I worry about when buying factory ammo is "efficiency". As a handloader, I judge a load by its accuracy more than anything else. An increase in "efficiency" might mean more loads per pound of powder but that is only important to me when I'm building plinking loads - and lots of them. For example, 13.5g HS-6 under a 300g or 350g hardcast bullet makes for a fine and inexpensive .45-70 plinking load. "Efficiency" matters not at all for my hunting loads.
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
A long while back I shot about a 150 pound hog through the lungs with my .270 at around 50 yards. It dropped on the spot and I found the 130gr. Power Point nicely mushroomed against the off side hide.
For some reason I got the idea in my head that the bullet should have exited and made me start thinking I should limber up dads old .30-06 for more power on hogs.
The first hog I shot with it was about the same size and distance as the previously mentioned hog. Once again the hog dropped at the shot but this time I found a mushroomed .30cal 180gr. Power Point against the off side hide.
Its not legal in Alaska to hunt Bison with a rifle with performance under 30/06 with bullets 200 grains benchmark.
Just exactly how many hunters actually hunt bison. Or coastal brown bear. No one is saying the 30-06 doesn't work on those animals. Just that for at least 99% of us, if we are really honest with ourselves, we'll never need the power. And if we do need more power than rounds like 308, 7-08, 270 etc., then a 30-06 is only marginally better and we'd really be much better off with something a LOT bigger than 30-06.
I hunted with a 30-06 exclusively for almost 40 years, you'll never hear me say a bad thing about the round. But lately I've found a 308 just to work better for me, and I consider it to be bigger than really needed most of the time.
I'm shooting the same bullets 100-150 fps slower. (And modern 308 loads are 100-200 fps faster than 30-06 loads from the 1920's.) I figure all that does is force me to get 50-100 yards closer. And the 308 is still got enough pop to work on anything I'll ever hunt out to 300 yards. That is as far as I can shoot consistently anyway.
For giving up that 100-150 fps I get about 20-25% less recoil from rifles of the same weight. Or, I can carry my Kimber which is 1.5 lbs lighter and get about the same recoil as the heavier 30-06.
Most people don't really want the truth.
They just want constant reassurance that what they believe is the truth.
Just a few thoughts on .30-06, light bullets and efficiency....
It is true that light bullets reduce recoil. It is also true that they have lower sectional density and ballistic coefficients. All of which is meaningless unless given some decisional parameters.
Frankly, the idea of a .22 Accelerator load in a .30-06 has always intrigued me. For light varminting of just plain fun, what is wrong with a 55g V-MAX cranking along at 4200fps MV? In a standard weight .30-06 that is about 11.5 ft-lbs recoil and MPBR zeroed for a 6" diameter target, the bullet is down only about 5.5" at 400 yards. At 300 yards retained velocity and energy are in the neighborhood of 2942fps and 1057fpe. Compare that to 150g Winchester .30-30 ammo that runs closer to 1400fps and 651fpe at that range. Granted that accuracy may suffer, accelerators still sound like a lot of fun. Great elk load? Probably not, but who cares?
Don't like Accelerators? How about a 110g Hornady V-MAX or Barnes TAC-TX at 3400fps? Should be good for up to deer-sized game to about 400 yards where a 6" MPBR results in a drop of about 12" with retention in the neighborhood of 2175fps and 1150fpe. And with recoil under 15 ft-lbs. Sounds to me like a good pair of loads with lots of practical uses, including light varminting, antelope and deer.
Hunting elk? Bump it up to a 130g or 150g TTSX at 3200fps and 3000fps respectively. Feeling undergunned? Why, when you're basically talking the same velocity and energy at 400 yards as a .30-30 delivers at 50?
Low efficiency? As defined by and compared to what, exactly - and even then, who cares? The last thing I worry about when buying factory ammo is "efficiency". As a handloader, I judge a load by its accuracy more than anything else. An increase in "efficiency" might mean more loads per pound of powder but that is only important to me when I'm building plinking loads - and lots of them. For example, 13.5g HS-6 under a 300g or 350g hardcast bullet makes for a fine and inexpensive .45-70 plinking load. "Efficiency" matters not at all for my hunting loads.
Who cares? Well the Op does, I suppose that is why he asked the question. I dont really think the OP was talking about Varminting when he mentioned Nort American Game . And the effeciency I speak is not neccasarily getting the most rounds per pound . As far as big game goes anything in the lighter weighs in the 06 does can be accomplished using the 270 with lighter bullets. Apples to apples of course for comparisons. And not apples to oranges. Efficiency may not concern you , and I personally see where you are coming from however considering the op question I contend that effeciency plays a huge part in answering the question.
65BR Offline Campfire 'Bwana
Registered: 02/22/07 Posts: 12412 Loc: NW Louisiana For North American game excluding big bears.
Is there anything it does that a say 270 or similar, smaller caliber, lighter recoiling rifle will not do?
What say you?
I say as much as I like the 30-06 there are smaller less recoiling calibers that will do the job. Which is by any rational exactly what the op asked. I like the 06 and as I have said have killed more deer with the cartridge than any others BUT I just like the 270 Better ! Less recoil,less wind drift etc. And still does the job an 06 will do on the game mentioned.
A lot of people are suggesting the 270 as a lesser kicking relative. I can't really tell that a 270 kicks less, feels about the same to me. 243, 7x57, sure yeah, kicks less but a 270, I can't tell any difference.
Yes, the old '06 is too much gun. Not much too much.....just a little more ruckus than we really need.
It's a relic of those grand old times before the improved bullet construction of today. A natural evolution happened as bullet construction got better and better.
We went from the 45-70 to the .400 Whelen to the .35 Whelen and the 30-06........now we have the .270 Winchester.
The '06 is dead, it just doesn't know it.
The .270 can do everything better.
Where do we go from here? Who knows?
The Tea Party Movement is pretty much the same as a bowel movement except that it smells worse and has far less in the way of intelligent content. --DancesWithGuns
So you could neck it up to 30 cal and have a 30-7-08?
If the thread asked...is a 270 too much...a 308 too much...the answer for all of them would be the same as this thread. No, not too much. Kills [bleep]. Yes, too much recoil or burns too much powder, too long a bolt throw, whatever.
Seriously, rifles shoot bullets. When bullets at high velocity destroy tissue, make hearts stop working or lungs stop being inflated or stop blood flow to the brain or spinal column animals die. I have killed hogs with knives, beef cattle with hammers, animals with bullets or arrows...amazingly they all work.
I love the 30-06, but it isn't special. But it is all around a great compromise of recoil, energy, ballistic coefficient, velocity, and bullet performance.
And nobody needs a small-block V-8 engine in any vehicle. But they still feel good and sound good and are as enjoyable to own as they ever were, when efficiency isn't the top priority.
Long live the 30-06.
Nifty-250
"If you don't know where you're going, you may wind up somewhere else". Yogi Berra
One son inherited a 270, the other will need a good rifle as well. Since neither handloading not expect to do so, not likely prairie dogs or bears will be on the menu, nor bison though I know many have fallen to lesser than 06's.
Main game likely for them during theirs lives will be deer, hogs, and occasional elk. Factory ammo is about a given when I'm not around.
Seems John Wooters (or another old time writer in the 70-80s) wrote a good piece long ago on 270 loads and the 100-110s were fast n flat. I loaded some in the past. Recoil not much lower as I had them redlining. Sure made a mess of things hit
When I load for the one, it's been 150 PT, BT or 140 AB/BTs.
My experience - 150 BT deadly on WT and PT equally - end to end on a Colorado Mulie at 275 yds. 130s never grouped as tight IME as 150s in the few rifles I worked with, though I did a double on two crows once, 100 Rem PSP bulk bullet - about 300 yds w a former 1B w 6x. Got lucky
I see lots saying the recoil on an 06' is too much... really? Have you ever felt the recoil on any rifle when you have a deer or elk in your sights, and you focus and pull the trigger? probably not... The only place you'll find recoil being an issue is if you're going paper-punching and shoot a hundred rounds... at that point, take your 22lr with you, instead.
“Even if you’re on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there.” --- Will Rogers
Recoil is always an issue and a little bit less is a little bit better.
You can illustrate this by going with a LOT less.
Take the average guy out with a .223 and a 45-70 and see if he doesn't make much smaller groups with the .223 and much larger groups with the 45-70.
That's just the way it works. Recoil is always the enemy of accuracy.
The Tea Party Movement is pretty much the same as a bowel movement except that it smells worse and has far less in the way of intelligent content. --DancesWithGuns
Point well taken, DancesWithGuns... I agree with you. But, I am a big-guy, and don't find an 06 kick objectionable at all, and don't have trouble "staying with the shot" and shooting little groups... I suppose it's all pretty subjective based on the size of the shooter, weight and setup of the rifle, etc. etc. (But I do agree with your point)
“Even if you’re on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there.” --- Will Rogers
06 is a perfect elk round. you don't need anything more. Unless you are shooting past 400 yards. but thats just my opinion. It's all about shot placement anyways. 06 is too much gun for deer IMO. I think my 270 is too much gun for deer. I still use my 06 as main gun and 270 is a back up.
All of them do something better than the 30-06, but none of them do everything as well.
Maybe not TOO much, but certainly more than necessary.
donsm70
Life Member...Safari Club International Life Member...Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation Life Member...Keystone Country Elk Alliance Life Member...National Rifle Association
I have 4 30-06 rifles not because I love the cartridge but because I wanted the rifles and they were chambered for 30-06. You can tailor your loads for any game on the continent same as a lot of other cartridges. Too much? too little? that's a bs perspective, you can control the power level on that. Some folks have no interest on owning more than 1 CF rifle and go to Whatevermart the day before the season starts and buy whatever is on sale. They usually do ok too. Pointed at the right place most always get the job done. Magnum Man
It's purely a matter of personal preference and sometimes even convenience.
For example, if I needed a rifle and preferred the .270 but got offered a fantastic deal on a high quality '06 of a desirable make and model.......I would take it without a second thought.
I, too......can shoot either about as well, I just see a slight advantage to the .270 overall.
The Tea Party Movement is pretty much the same as a bowel movement except that it smells worse and has far less in the way of intelligent content. --DancesWithGuns
The -06 has too much recoil? Really? Sure grandpa's old M54 with a steel buttplate off the bench is uncomfortable but in the right stock with a decent pad if you can't shoot a 30-06 you should stay on the porch. Bolt throw too long? Again, Really? Learn how to operate your firearm pilgrim. There are better cartridges TODAY for various applications but given the 30cal of 1906 head start of about 30 years on most other cartridges, the others have a lot of catching up to do. Don't get me wrong, the 30-06 isn't the be all and end all of cartridges and if the US had adopted the 7x57 the -06 would be about as popular as the 300 Savage but we did and thus many bullets are made for it and it is the parent of a whole variety of other cartridges. There are very few who have experience with the -06 that don't like it.
I am continually astounded at how quickly people make up their minds on little evidence or none at all. Jack O'Connor
I haven't seen one person say the /06 has to much recoil so they don't use it, or seen anybody say anything about bolt throw either.
Have used an /06 quit a bit and agree with many that my 308's recoil less. I have been unable to see a difference between the 2 on animals, so why put up with more recoil?
I haven't seen one person say the /06 has to much recoil so they don't use it, or seen anybody say anything about bolt throw either.
Have used an /06 quit a bit and agree with many that my 308's recoil less and I have been unable to see a difference in the 2 on animals. So why put up with more recoil?
The last time 'I fired' an '06, it was pointed toward a moose this past January. I don't remember touching the trigger or feeling anything other than a mild 'pop' and then seeing moose legs flailing skyward. I'm thinking the moose either shot himself or the gun did. Recoil might become a factor if a person wanted to punch PDs with 180 grainers all day long, but it certainly doesn't qualify as heavy otherwise. And, depending on the maker of the rifle, there is some access advantage to the "06" length receiver opening when using a rifle in cold weather since some short actions can be more challenging to refill or maintain when temps are low. And moose hunting 'perfection' begins with the 30-06.
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
Never seen a moose, much less shot one, but from the antelope, deer, elk and oryx I've shot/seen shot with both an /06 and 308 I have seen no difference between the two. I can feel a difference in a day of shooting targets/rocks etc. between the two.
Keep in mind that for those who feel the 06 might be to heavy for them recoil wise, when it comes to re-barrel time, get yourself a set of 280 Ackley dies and you'll be a (much) happier camper down the road. Felt recoil is less and hopefully you still have plenty of (mis-stamped) brass to shoot till your hearts content. You'll have a new rifle that will do anything with good 160's that the 06 would/could do with 180's and just be missing what the 06 can do with 200's (and that probably subject for some debate as well).
Recoil is always an issue and a little bit less is a little bit better.
You can illustrate this by going with a LOT less.
Take the average guy out with a .223 and a 45-70 and see if he doesn't make much smaller groups with the .223 and much larger groups with the 45-70.
That's just the way it works. Recoil is always the enemy of accuracy.
I will not totally disagree, but my last range session saw me putting up smaller groups with my Mod70 300WM than I was with my Ruger 77 in 223. Both were shooting well under an inch. Of course I burn more than a few rounds each week.
Nut
Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.
Now it time to mention the 25-06. The necked down version of a 30-06 cartridge. I have harvested at least 30 deer with this cartridge. I like this one in the 100-120 gr. bullet size, flat shooting and accurate.
Have you ever seen someone who "isn't bothered by the recoil" accidentally pull the trigger on an empty chamber?
Truth!! Most would not admit. Obviously to have nearly 11,000 views, this thread has some attention. Could it be many owners question if they could do as well with less punishment?
I like to shoot plenty at the range and improve my skills. Less recoil = more rounds able to be fired without the wear on me, or adversely affect my shot placement.
Not knocking the round or owners. Just a matter of "Do you Need" that much gun for your hunting. Some may. Many may not. Interesting the folks who have gone full circle and end up Effectively using a 223 or 243 for a bulk of hunting - and I do believe Deer are the most commonly hunted big game in NA.
If I simply wanted to Only fire a rifle to check zero and hunt, a 338 WM would certainly fix a fella up, IF the shooter can consistently place shots thru vitals. Some can. Likely more would pull the shot - at least more so than a lighter recoiling round.
As mentioned before the 06 is known for versatility but a master of none. Likely at the upper limit of recoil tolerance for many. No doubt an 06 will get the job done when steered properly.
I admit I hate recoil and If I never hunted anything larger than deer/hogs I would be happy with a 6BR or if not a hand loader a 243. Proven to me over and over. I do feel a 120-140 grain bullet properly constructed with good SD (or a mono that will expand at ranges hunted) is better mousetrap for Elk.
MY experience with 06 were wood and laminate stocks without recoil pad. No doubt a synthetic with a good pad would have reduced felt recoil. I still rather incur less recoil.
Good thread. Albeit yes some hilarious posts. Enjoyed the humor mixed in
I killed my first deer and a bunch of ground hogs as a youth with my pops .30-06. I have only owned two of them over the last 25 years. a 54 winchester I bought cheap and a sportsman 76 i got even cheaper. Never killed anything with either of them. I have deep respect for a .30-06 but no need to own one. I have a .243 , a .260 , a 7x57 , a 8x57 and a .300 win mag. so I have the .30-06 area cover and it only took 5 rifles to covered the same ground that 06 of dads covered. Now that is Rifle Looney math!
I haven't seen one person say the /06 has to much recoil so they don't use it, or seen anybody say anything about bolt throw either.
Have used an /06 quit a bit and agree with many that my 308's recoil less. I have been unable to see a difference between the 2 on animals, so why put up with more recoil?
You are an idiot...
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
My Ruger M77 .257 Roberts is easily my favorite rifle. Recoil is minimal and it is certainly capable of taking elk, the largest animal I hunt. So why has the Roberts NEVER been the gun I carry opening day or even until I get my first elk down or am specifically hunting deer? The short answer is that for all its merits, I've historically preferred a larger cartridge with heavier bullets for elk (7mm RM, .30-06, .300WM, .338WM, .45-70).
For fun I ran the calculations on four of my loads, two for the .257 Roberts and two for the .30-06. These loads were as follows:
.257 Roberts, 110g AccuBond, 3163fps (my "antelope" load for the Roberts) .257 Roberts, 120g A-Frame, 2947fps (my traditional "elk" load for the Roberts) .30-06, 150g AccuBond, 2991fps (last elk I took with a .30-06 used this load) .30-06, 165g AccuBond, 2900fps (not a load I use, but easily doable)
For my calculations I assumed MPBR zeros for 6" diameter targets and 22" Ruger M77 or MKII rifles, 8.3 lbs each, scoped and ready to shoot. wind drift was calculated for a 10mph wind.
In the 33 years I've been hunting Colorado big game I've only taken one animal past 400 yards. That one was a cow elk at 487 yards with the .338WM. The vast majority have been at 300 or less. The Roberts is looking better and better...
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
I haven't seen one person say the /06 has to much recoil so they don't use it, or seen anybody say anything about bolt throw either.
Have used an /06 quit a bit and agree with many that my 308's recoil less. I have been unable to see a difference between the 2 on animals, so why put up with more recoil?
You are an idiot...
Originally Posted by SLM
Are you still angry you can't produce a single pic of anything you've killed with an /06?
Come on, post one pic of you and anything you've killed.
You tried to make a point that the Chambering(30-06)kicked less with the lighter bullets then when I mentioned that they were not very efficient you now want to mix words and not talk about them. When talking about the chambering and op question the bullets are part of the equation. Thats some funny chit !
You're not very bright, are you. I did not "try to make a point" about anything, other than answering the question by making the observation that the '06 can handle a wider range of bullet weights than lesser cartridges. You can see that for yourself if you actually read what I wrote (quoted below). The reason I mentioned lighter recoil was not to make a point, it was because he specifically referenced "lighter recoiling rifles" in his question.
In answering the OP's question, which was "Is there anything it does that a say 270 or similar, smaller caliber, lighter recoiling rifle will not do?" , I said this:
Originally Posted by smokepole
Originally Posted by 65BR
For North American game excluding big bears.
Is there anything it does that a say 270 or similar, smaller caliber, lighter recoiling rifle will not do?
What say you?
If you reload, it can handle a wider range of bullets, from 110-220 grains. Loading 110s or 125s makes recoil a non-issue.
Have you ever seen someone who "isn't bothered by the recoil" accidentally pull the trigger on an empty chamber?
This is an excellent exercise my friends and I run together. We'll load each other's rifles and once in a while pass an empty chamber.
I have to admit I've been caught flinching on rifles that recoil less than an 06.
My 30-06 is a hunting rifle. I take it out for steel & recyclable whacking at distance and May Fire it 3-4x, each time on a cold barrel, but the bulk of my shooting is done with smaller cartridges with milder recoil & blast.
Thing is, when I point & click that 06 shhitt falls. Hard. No question.
And that's why when I travel that rifle nearly always makes the trip. Confidence in both the rifle & the cartridge.
You tried to make a point that the Chambering(30-06)kicked less with the lighter bullets then when I mentioned that they were not very efficient you now want to mix words and not talk about them. When talking about the chambering and op question the bullets are part of the equation. Thats some funny chit !
You're not very bright, are you. I did not "try to make a point" about anything, other than answering the question by making the observation that the '06 can handle a wider range of bullet weights than lesser cartridges. You can see that for yourself if you actually read what I wrote (quoted below). The reason I mentioned lighter recoil was not to make a point, it was because he specifically referenced "lighter recoiling rifles" in his question.
In answering the OP's question, which was "Is there anything it does that a say 270 or similar, smaller caliber, lighter recoiling rifle will not do?" , I said this:
Originally Posted by smokepole
Originally Posted by 65BR
For North American game excluding big bears.
Is there anything it does that a say 270 or similar, smaller caliber, lighter recoiling rifle will not do?
What say you?
If you reload, it can handle a wider range of bullets, from 110-220 grains. Loading 110s or 125s makes recoil a non-issue.
Are you saying I'm wrong about that?
smokespoles, The statement that lighter bullets makes recoil a non issue is true HOWEVER the OP was obviously talking about BIG game and the use of 110 and 125 grain bullets out of a 30-06 are not the best for hunting.
Originally Posted By bcraig True that loading the lighter weight bullets Cuts down on recoil
But it also cuts down on performance as Ballistic coeficient and Sectional density go way down .
Then you post this .
That's where the versatility of having many different bullets to choose from comes in.
Besides light bullets, you can shoot heavies. Remember, the subject is the chambering, not the bullet.
I realize the chambering is what the discusson is about ! My point was that although lighter bullets do indeed cut down on recoil the OP is talking about for big game and most arent going to be shooting a 30-06 with 110 or 125 grain bullets just to cut down on recoil.
And as far as brightness goes ,well the OP didn,t ask about the versatality of using a 30-06 with lighter bullets . You may or may not be that bright but certainly your reading and comprehension skills are a brick shy of a full load .
Have you ever seen someone who "isn't bothered by the recoil" accidentally pull the trigger on an empty chamber?
This is an excellent exercise my friends and I run together. We'll load each other's rifles and once in a while pass an empty chamber.
I have to admit I've been caught flinching on rifles that recoil less than an 06.
My 30-06 is a hunting rifle. I take it out for steel & recyclable whacking at distance and May Fire it 3-4x, each time on a cold barrel, but the bulk of my shooting is done with smaller cartridges with milder recoil & blast.
Thing is, when I point & click that 06 shhitt falls. Hard. No question.
And that's why when I travel that rifle nearly always makes the trip. Confidence in both the rifle & the cartridge.
I've read that some people run a variation of this drill where instead of using friends and an unloaded rifle they load the rifle with random ammunition in a variety of chamberings pulled from their pocket and attempt to shoot an elk.
My youngest son started using the .30-06 in 2009 when he started hunting for bear. It was a big step up from his 6mm Remington. He's done just fine with the .30-06, taking a couple of bear and two bucks with it. No recoil problems:
Yeah, that's an ancient Model of 1917 he's using, updated a bit by me with a Bell & Carlson stock and the 6x Leupold. Sure works well for him. Or me, when I carry it.
My youngest son started using the .30-06 in 2009 when he started hunting for bear. It was a big step up from his 6mm Remington. He's done just fine with the .30-06, taking a couple of bear and two bucks with it. No recoil problems:
Yeah, that's an ancient Model of 1917 he's using, updated a bit by me with a Bell & Carlson stock and the 6x Leupold. Sure works well for him. Or me, when I carry it.
And try not to take a half page. It's not that complicated.
Originally Posted by bcraig
Originally Posted by 65BR
For North American game excluding big bears.
Is there anything it does that a say 270 or similar, smaller caliber, lighter recoiling rifle will not do?
What say you?
Still waiting. If you're implying that the 125 grain .30 caliber bullet is no good for hunting, or that the .270 can shoot as wide a range of bullets as the '06, you'd be wrong.
And try not to take a half page. It's not that complicated.
Originally Posted by bcraig
Originally Posted by 65BR
For North American game excluding big bears.
Is there anything it does that a say 270 or similar, smaller caliber, lighter recoiling rifle will not do?
What say you?
Still waiting. If you're implying that the 125 grain .30 caliber bullet is no good for hunting, or that the .270 can shoot as wide a range of bullets as the '06, you'd be wrong.
You just cant seem to comprehend the op question can you? He did not ask which had the most Facroey loads or bullets. BUT since you insist Look at either Speer,Barnes,Hornady,Nosler,etc and I bet there is ENOUGH different bu;;ets weights and construction in .277 to satisfy anyone. Sorry it took almost half a page but you just catch on sooo SLOW.
My opinion is just that and probably worth less. Since this site exists on broadstrokes and at the same time slices a molecule wide, I'll hazard an opine.
It's a little heavy for all up to very big deer; about right for most elk hunting, and always practical.
I have recommended it to the one-gun Hunter who wants to include elk.
And try not to take a half page. It's not that complicated.
Originally Posted by bcraig
Originally Posted by 65BR
For North American game excluding big bears.
Is there anything it does that a say 270 or similar, smaller caliber, lighter recoiling rifle will not do?
What say you?
Still waiting. If you're implying that the 125 grain .30 caliber bullet is no good for hunting, or that the .270 can shoot as wide a range of bullets as the '06, you'd be wrong.
And no I am not implying that the 125 grain out of an 06 is not any good for big game hunting. I am Saying that MOST would not choose that weight in a cup and core for generalized deer hunting much less larger. WHO CARES if there is more 30 caliber bullets? There is enough in other calibers AND that wasn,t the op Question !
You just cant seem to comprehend the op question can you? He did not ask which had the most Facroey loads or bullets. BUT since you insist Look at either Speer,Barnes,Hornady,Nosler,etc and I bet there is ENOUGH different bu;;ets weights and construction in .277 to satisfy anyone. Sorry it took almost half a page but you just catch on sooo SLOW.
Well, I don't recall talking about "Facroey loads," or "bu;;ets weights" but I do find it hilarious when a guy who doesn't know a proper noun when he sees it, can't spell, and can't use punctuation questions my comprehension.
Is that your final answer?
And I don't recall talking about how many bullet weights it would take to "satisfy anyone." That's subjective, I was just dealing with facts. And the fact is, the '06 is more versatile than the .270 in that it can and does handle a wider variety of bullet weights.
Again smokespoles the OP question is not about my use or knowledge of proper nouns,my spelling or punctuation. Nor did he ask if the 30-06 is a more versatile catridge than any other cartridge. And that IS a fact. I suppose that when you read the OP question you SUBJECTIVELY read into the question what you THINK he is asking instead of reading what it actually says ? Reading is fundamental. Comprehension Helps
Is there anything it does that a say 270 or similar, smaller caliber, lighter recoiling rifle will not do?
What say you?
Here ya go,once again. And the Answer is,especially concerning the 270 Winchester is NO
So your answer about more bullet availability,Light bullets in the 06 BLAH BLAH is correct! However it doesn,t make any difference as there are more than enough bullets and Loads for a wide variety of calibers that will accomplish the things the 06 does on the game the op mentioned with less recoil. Which is EXACTLY what the op asked. YOU could say that 16 ounces is a pound and you WOULD BE RIGHT BUT that is not answering the op question !
So your answer about more bullet availability,Light bullets in the 06 BLAH BLAH is correct!
My answer was correct alright, but I said nothing about bullet availability, or "Light bullets" in the '06.
What I said was, the '06 handles a wider variety of bullet weights. I know that's a lot for you to keep track of, but try to keep up
And if you want to talk about "BLAH BLAH," go back and look at the length of your posts, and compare them to mine.
The BLAH BLAH is all yours, chief.
You seem to be obsessed wit being "right" AND either your memory is shot to chit or you are a liar as you post that use of the lighter bullets in the 06 would lessen the recoil.
My post are longer than yours in an effort to get accros to you what the op asked and not your bullchit that the op did not ask for.
You seem to be obsessed wit being "right" AND either your memory is shot to chit or you are a liar as you post that use of the lighter bullets in the 06 would lessen the recoil.
You seem to be obsessed with coming off like an idiot. And you're damn good at it.
I know what I posted. But thanks for repeating it. It's still right.
IF you know what you posted then WHY try to say you did not say anything about lighter bullets in the 06 ?
AND even though it was not the OP question SINCE you mentioned the Wider range of bullets for the 06 85,90,100,110,130,140,150,165,180 grains in the 270 A wide enough range of bullets for ya ?
Why is alot of the post concerned with 30-06 recoil? When did humans become such pu$$ies that a 180gr bullet out of a 30-06 is just too much recoil. People has become weak, I shoot 208gr amax's almost exclusively in my sporter TC Venture 24" with no brake. If the 30-06 is too much then you probably squat to piss or to damn old to be shootin. Suck it up!!! My little 130 lbs wife shoots my 30-06 with hot 178 Amax loads and doesn't say "oh it kicks too hard" people used to cut timber with cross cut saws and hunted with 30-06's with metal butt plates, they moved mountains with a pick and wheel barrel. Now were just fuggin weak, its pretty pathetic....
The Tea Party Movement is pretty much the same as a bowel movement except that it smells worse and has far less in the way of intelligent content. --DancesWithGuns
Why is alot of the post concerned with 30-06 recoil? When did humans become such pu$$ies that a 180gr bullet out of a 30-06 is just too much recoil. People has become weak, I shoot 208gr amax's almost exclusively in my sporter TC Venture 24" with no brake. If the 30-06 is too much then you probably squat to piss or to damn old to be shootin. Suck it up!!! My little 130 lbs wife shoots my 30-06 with hot 178 Amax loads and doesn't say "oh it kicks too hard" people used to cut timber with cross cut saws and hunted with 30-06's with metal butt plates, they moved mountains with a pick and wheel barrel. Now were just fuggin weak, its pretty pathetic....
So I take it your still using a cross cut saw instead of a more efficient chain saw?
Why is alot of the post concerned with 30-06 recoil? When did humans become such pu$$ies that a 180gr bullet out of a 30-06 is just too much recoil. People has become weak, I shoot 208gr amax's almost exclusively in my sporter TC Venture 24" with no brake. If the 30-06 is too much then you probably squat to piss or to damn old to be shootin. Suck it up!!! My little 130 lbs wife shoots my 30-06 with hot 178 Amax loads and doesn't say "oh it kicks too hard" people used to cut timber with cross cut saws and hunted with 30-06's with metal butt plates, they moved mountains with a pick and wheel barrel. Now were just fuggin weak, its pretty pathetic....
So I take it your still using a cross cut saw instead of a more efficient chain saw?
No I use a Stihl 660 and a Husky 395 but I'm not afraid of my 30-06 or my unbraked .300 Win mag, if you can't handle a 180 out of a 30-06 you definitely couldn't handle a Win mag shooting 208's. I have big guns and big saws, I suppose they make some people a little tougher than others. Cry babies that have no calluses are the ones who are "afraid" of all things a damn 30-06. Ask your wife if you can have your balls back...
06 is about what most folks can handle recoil wise, at least it is the standard to compare too. Can't think of too many situations that I would feel over gunned. Perhaps varmints, not pleasant to shot all day long. It has so many bullet weights and is very flexible. If I were to have just one the 30-06 would be very high on the list.
Recoil never bothered me all that much, until I stated shooting more than a little. Even then not right away, then one day my finger didn't work. It is the rare person that is immune to the cumulative effect of recoil and it makes little difference if they have a pair of balls.
I have found with 06 and up about 10 shots off the bench, and then I am aware of the recoil. Much past that and I am thinking about recoil. Groups go down from there. Hunting it does not matter, I know the rifle fired, but recoil is not really felt. Then again where I hunt two shots at game is the max. Trees etc. Perhaps a Cu Degas shot.
Recoil never bothered me all that much, until I stated shooting more than a little.
Yup. It's not a matter of "being afraid" or "not being able to handle" something. It's how much you want to shoot. I was shooting two .264's this weekend, one out of a .308 case and one on the '06 case. Once I got over 50 rounds each, you can guess which one got put away.
I know this thread is about hunting and not shooting, but if you want to be good at the former it's best to be good at the latter.
Originally Posted by 28lx
It has the ability to get a couple members to argue back and forth
Why is alot of the post concerned with 30-06 recoil? When did humans become such pu$$ies that a 180gr bullet out of a 30-06 is just too much recoil. People has become weak, I shoot 208gr amax's almost exclusively in my sporter TC Venture 24" with no brake. If the 30-06 is too much then you probably squat to piss or to damn old to be shootin. Suck it up!!! My little 130 lbs wife shoots my 30-06 with hot 178 Amax loads and doesn't say "oh it kicks too hard" people used to cut timber with cross cut saws and hunted with 30-06's with metal butt plates, they moved mountains with a pick and wheel barrel. Now were just fuggin weak, its pretty pathetic....
Why is alot of the post concerned with 30-06 recoil? When did humans become such pu$$ies that a 180gr bullet out of a 30-06 is just too much recoil. People has become weak, I shoot 208gr amax's almost exclusively in my sporter TC Venture 24" with no brake. If the 30-06 is too much then you probably squat to piss or to damn old to be shootin. Suck it up!!! My little 130 lbs wife shoots my 30-06 with hot 178 Amax loads and doesn't say "oh it kicks too hard" people used to cut timber with cross cut saws and hunted with 30-06's with metal butt plates, they moved mountains with a pick and wheel barrel. Now were just fuggin weak, its pretty pathetic....
So I take it your still using a cross cut saw instead of a more efficient chain saw?
No I use a Stihl 660 and a Husky 395 but I'm not afraid of my 30-06 or my unbraked .300 Win mag, if you can't handle a 180 out of a 30-06 you definitely couldn't handle a Win mag shooting 208's. I have big guns and big saws, I suppose they make some people a little tougher than others. Cry babies that have no calluses are the ones who are "afraid" of all things a damn 30-06. Ask your wife if you can have your balls back...
You're either 5'3" or you're compensating for other inadequacies. A lot of us love the .30-06 but a lot of us are smart enough to realize many of the lesser cartridges kill deer just as well as the .30-06. And if you actually shoot more than 10 shots a year (didn't Stick say 1 box was a lifetime supply of .30-06? :D) its a lot more fun shooting these lesser cartridges.
I know people vary in recoil tolerance,but I've never seen a trained, experienced rifleman who couldn't turn in good performance while hunting with a 30/06. Not if he were used to shooting rifles in the first place.
It might not be the tool for a 50-100 round session in an afternoon,from a 7.5 pound hunting rifle, but there are other cartridges for that. It's still possible to do intelligent practice with one without developing bad habits.
I think the flaw in some folks thinking is that they judge by the largest animal to be taken rather than the stuff you hunt MOST of the time.
Truth is, the old '06 is only a great all-around gun if you think you need more than the 150 grain .270 for the big bears.
I consider the 150 grain .270 enough for the big bears. It has performed capably in that role enough times to be trusted.
That decision means you benefit on the smaller stuff like sheep and deer and antelope where the 130 grain .270 is slightly better in both killing power and trajectory than is the '06.
And, of course, the .270 is far better if employed in a varmint-killing role. That 110 grain '06 bullet has never been much loved by the long range shooters of smaller critters.
Recoil? It is a fact that a little less recoil is a little better. Not much, but every little bit helps when you're going for the smallest group you can get.
The Tea Party Movement is pretty much the same as a bowel movement except that it smells worse and has far less in the way of intelligent content. --DancesWithGuns
And no one has brought up how the .270 is so.......Gay!
Shew me thy ways, O LORD: teach me thy paths. "there are few better cartridges on Earth than the 7 x 57mm Mauser" "the .30 Springfield is light, accurate, penetrating, and has surprising stopping power"
And, of course, the .270 is far better if employed in a varmint-killing role. That 110 grain '06 bullet has never been much loved by the long range shooters of smaller critters.
You could've said the same about the '06 in general, regardless of bullet weight. But then again, the question wasn't about varmints.
And no one has brought up how the .270 is so.......Gay!
Silly boy.
The .308 caliber is not enough bigger than .277 to get you out of the gay category.
You have to get into at least the 45-70 to do that.
Last edited by DancesWithGuns; 04/27/15.
The Tea Party Movement is pretty much the same as a bowel movement except that it smells worse and has far less in the way of intelligent content. --DancesWithGuns
smokespoles, The statement that lighter bullets makes recoil a non issue is true HOWEVER the OP was obviously talking about BIG game and the use of 110 and 125 grain bullets out of a 30-06 are not the best for hunting. ...
Why not? For many species of big game 110-125 grain .308" bullets are way beyond "overkill". A 125g AccuBond (B.C. .366) stepping out at 3300fps makes for a pretty flat shooter with a calculated 2109fps and 1235fpe at 500 yards. Zeroed at 200 yards, the drop at 500 yards is only 34". While that wouldn't be my first choice for elk, it is very comparable in terms of retained velocity and energy to a 150g .30-30 with 2300fps MV at a mere 50 yards.
The classic .270 Winchester load is a 130g bullet at around 3060fps (Winchester Power -Point X2705). At 500 yards with a 200-yard zero, this equates to a 42" drop, 1904fps and 1046fpe. Recoil from 8.3 lb rifle will be in the 16-17 ft-lb range depending on the amount of powder burned. Compared to the 125g .30-06 load referenced above, at 500 yards the .270 Win 130g load adds 8" of drop and loses 171fps and 318fpe. (It does, however, deliver a bullet with higher, but at .242 not great, S.D. with about 1-2 ft-lb less recoil)
Using your logic, a .308" 220g bullet is "not the best for hunting" either. Very few people choose them because they are slow (around 2500fps), generate a lot of recoil (about 25 ft-lbs) and have a B.C. about that of a cement block. Well, just what are we hunting? If hunting big bears a 220g bullet might be just what I want. In any case I would much prefer it to anything a .270 Win could throw.
Time to throw out all the .30-06 rifles? I don't think so...
Quote
... My point was that although lighter bullets do indeed cut down on recoil the OP is talking about for big game and most arent going to be shooting a 30-06 with 110 or 125 grain bullets just to cut down on recoil. ...
What "most" people do has never mattered much to me. After I zeroed a .30-06 for a good friend's son, he proceeded to take his first elk with it - using a Remington "Managed Recoil" load. The bullet weight was 125g with a claimed 2660fps MV.
The question posed by the OP, with regard to the .30-06, was this:
Quote
Is there anything it does that a say 270 or similar, smaller caliber, lighter recoiling rifle will not do?
The answer is an obvious "yes" for a variety of reasons, some or all of which may or may not be important to a particular individual.
1. Versatility. The .30-06 can shoot bullets from 110g to 220g. With the right loads it is suitable for light varmint loads to loads suitable for the biggest animals in NA.
2. Ammo availability and variety. Midway usa.com lists 54 different .30-06 ammo types as "in stock" compared to 114 types total. For the .270 Win it is 21 types in stock out of 54 types total. For the .260 Remington the numbers are 5 of 15. For the .257 Roberts it is 0 of 13. And so on...
3. Ammo prices. .30-06 plinking ammo is often much cheaper than the least expensive ammo for other cartridges.
4. A .30-06 can often be downloaded to provide performance similar to the smaller cartridges, at very similar recoil levels.
5. Try as I might, I cannot upload my .257 Roberts to do what I can do with my .30-06 rifles. The same is true with many of the smaller cartridges.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not against small cartridges per se, and in fact like them a lot. My .257 Roberts is my favorite rifle and it does ***most*** of what I need done. It has been an awesome dual-purpose deer/varmint rifle. A good argument can be made for the .308 Win and while I like mine, it will not handle heavies as well as my .30-06s. My 7mm RM was my first centerfire and while I have a lot of sentimental attachment to it, I've never asked it to do anything I couldn't do with a .30-06. My 6.5-06AI is a great rifle, as is my .280 Rem, which will be my elk rifle this year. That said, if I had to let all my rifles go but one, I'd be left with a .30-06.
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
Why is alot of the post concerned with 30-06 recoil? When did humans become such pu$$ies that a 180gr bullet out of a 30-06 is just too much recoil. People has become weak, I shoot 208gr amax's almost exclusively in my sporter TC Venture 24" with no brake. If the 30-06 is too much then you probably squat to piss or to damn old to be shootin. Suck it up!!! My little 130 lbs wife shoots my 30-06 with hot 178 Amax loads and doesn't say "oh it kicks too hard" people used to cut timber with cross cut saws and hunted with 30-06's with metal butt plates, they moved mountains with a pick and wheel barrel. Now were just fuggin weak, its pretty pathetic....
So I take it your still using a cross cut saw instead of a more efficient chain saw?
No I use a Stihl 660 and a Husky 395 but I'm not afraid of my 30-06 or my unbraked .300 Win mag, if you can't handle a 180 out of a 30-06 you definitely couldn't handle a Win mag shooting 208's. I have big guns and big saws, I suppose they make some people a little tougher than others. Cry babies that have no calluses are the ones who are "afraid" of all things a damn 30-06. Ask your wife if you can have your balls back...
You're either 5'3" or you're compensating for other inadequacies. A lot of us love the .30-06 but a lot of us are smart enough to realize many of the lesser cartridges kill deer just as well as the .30-06. And if you actually shoot more than 10 shots a year (didn't Stick say 1 box was a lifetime supply of .30-06? :D) its a lot more fun shooting these lesser cartridges.
5'10" 210 lbs, and I put a little over a 1000 rounds thru my '06 last summer. Never thought I would be accused of compensating for something, because I shoot a 30-06.
smokespoles, The statement that lighter bullets makes recoil a non issue is true HOWEVER the OP was obviously talking about BIG game and the use of 110 and 125 grain bullets out of a 30-06 are not the best for hunting. ...
Why not? For many species of big game 110-125 grain .308" bullets are way beyond "overkill". A 125g AccuBond (B.C. .366) stepping out at 3300fps makes for a pretty flat shooter with a calculated 2109fps and 1235fpe at 500 yards. Zeroed at 200 yards, the drop at 500 yards is only 34". While that wouldn't be my first choice for elk, it is very comparable in terms of retained velocity and energy to a 150g .30-30 with 2300fps MV at a mere 50 yards.
The classic .270 Winchester load is a 130g bullet at around 3060fps (Winchester Power -Point X2705). At 500 yards with a 200-yard zero, this equates to a 42" drop, 1904fps and 1046fpe. Recoil from 8.3 lb rifle will be in the 16-17 ft-lb range depending on the amount of powder burned. Compared to the 125g .30-06 load referenced above, at 500 yards the .270 Win 130g load adds 8" of drop and loses 171fps and 318fpe. (It does, however, deliver a bullet with higher, but at .242 not great, S.D. with about 1-2 ft-lb less recoil)
Using your logic, a .308" 220g bullet is "not the best for hunting" either. Very few people choose them because they are slow (around 2500fps), generate a lot of recoil (about 25 ft-lbs) and have a B.C. about that of a cement block. Well, just what are we hunting? If hunting big bears a 220g bullet might be just what I want. In any case I would much prefer it to anything a .270 Win could throw.
Time to throw out all the .30-06 rifles? I don't think so...
Quote
... My point was that although lighter bullets do indeed cut down on recoil the OP is talking about for big game and most arent going to be shooting a 30-06 with 110 or 125 grain bullets just to cut down on recoil. ...
What "most" people do has never mattered much to me. After I zeroed a .30-06 for a good friend's son, he proceeded to take his first elk with it - using a Remington "Managed Recoil" load. The bullet weight was 125g with a claimed 2660fps MV.
The question posed by the OP, with regard to the .30-06, was this:
Quote
Is there anything it does that a say 270 or similar, smaller caliber, lighter recoiling rifle will not do?
The answer is an obvious "yes" for a variety of reasons, some or all of which may or may not be important to a particular individual.
1. Versatility. The .30-06 can shoot bullets from 110g to 220g. With the right loads it is suitable for light varmint loads to loads suitable for the biggest animals in NA.
2. Ammo availability and variety. Midway usa.com lists 54 different .30-06 ammo types as "in stock" compared to 114 types total. For the .270 Win it is 21 types in stock out of 54 types total. For the .260 Remington the numbers are 5 of 15. For the .257 Roberts it is 0 of 13. And so on...
3. Ammo prices. .30-06 plinking ammo is often much cheaper than the least expensive ammo for other cartridges.
4. A .30-06 can often be downloaded to provide performance similar to the smaller cartridges, at very similar recoil levels.
5. Try as I might, I cannot upload my .257 Roberts to do what I can do with my .30-06 rifles. The same is true with many of the smaller cartridges.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not against small cartridges per se, and in fact like them a lot. My .257 Roberts is my favorite rifle and it does ***most*** of what I need done. It has been an awesome dual-purpose deer/varmint rifle. A good argument can be made for the .308 Win and while I like mine, it will not handle heavies as well as my .30-06s. My 7mm RM was my first centerfire and while I have a lot of sentimental attachment to it, I've never asked it to do anything I couldn't do with a .30-06. My 6.5-06AI is a great rifle, as is my .280 Rem, which will be my elk rifle this year. That said, if I had to let all my rifles go but one, I'd be left with a .30-06.
Laffin', run comparable bullets and it will mean something.
I've been shooting a 30-06 in one form or another for 35 years, mostly at whitetail deer, but a few other things here and there. Outside of a brief interval back at the beginning, where I was being handed obnoxiously loaded 180 grain handloads, I have never had a problem shooting the '06. For a while there, I was even using it as my primary groundhog chambering.
I don't mean to call out anyone in particular. I can see where a fellow with an rifle that is not properly fit for the shooter (or vice-versa) could cause someone to think 30-06 is too much, that is a simple matter of ignorance. However getting all uppity and name-calling just, because some folks can handle the round and don't see a problem is somewhat beyond my ability to understand. I've been called a booger eating moron on the 'Campfire for shooting a 30-06. I've been called gap-toothed trailer trash for for it too. I just don't see the problem.
The top deer getter in our camp is '06 followed by 35 Whelen. Now, I'll admit the 35 Whelen is overkill, but I just like shooting my "Whelenizer" and it has been following me out to top off the freezer the past 10 years. The ought-sixes? Those are bread-and-butter rifles.
smokespoles, The statement that lighter bullets makes recoil a non issue is true HOWEVER the OP was obviously talking about BIG game and the use of 110 and 125 grain bullets out of a 30-06 are not the best for hunting. ...
Why not? For many species of big game 110-125 grain .308" bullets are way beyond "overkill". A 125g AccuBond (B.C. .366) stepping out at 3300fps makes for a pretty flat shooter with a calculated 2109fps and 1235fpe at 500 yards. Zeroed at 200 yards, the drop at 500 yards is only 34". While that wouldn't be my first choice for elk, it is very comparable in terms of retained velocity and energy to a 150g .30-30 with 2300fps MV at a mere 50 yards.
The classic .270 Winchester load is a 130g bullet at around 3060fps (Winchester Power -Point X2705). At 500 yards with a 200-yard zero, this equates to a 42" drop, 1904fps and 1046fpe. Recoil from 8.3 lb rifle will be in the 16-17 ft-lb range depending on the amount of powder burned. Compared to the 125g .30-06 load referenced above, at 500 yards the .270 Win 130g load adds 8" of drop and loses 171fps and 318fpe. (It does, however, deliver a bullet with higher, but at .242 not great, S.D. with about 1-2 ft-lb less recoil)
Using your logic, a .308" 220g bullet is "not the best for hunting" either. Very few people choose them because they are slow (around 2500fps), generate a lot of recoil (about 25 ft-lbs) and have a B.C. about that of a cement block. Well, just what are we hunting? If hunting big bears a 220g bullet might be just what I want. In any case I would much prefer it to anything a .270 Win could throw.
Time to throw out all the .30-06 rifles? I don't think so...
Quote
... My point was that although lighter bullets do indeed cut down on recoil the OP is talking about for big game and most arent going to be shooting a 30-06 with 110 or 125 grain bullets just to cut down on recoil. ...
What "most" people do has never mattered much to me. After I zeroed a .30-06 for a good friend's son, he proceeded to take his first elk with it - using a Remington "Managed Recoil" load. The bullet weight was 125g with a claimed 2660fps MV.
The question posed by the OP, with regard to the .30-06, was this:
Quote
Is there anything it does that a say 270 or similar, smaller caliber, lighter recoiling rifle will not do?
The answer is an obvious "yes" for a variety of reasons, some or all of which may or may not be important to a particular individual.
1. Versatility. The .30-06 can shoot bullets from 110g to 220g. With the right loads it is suitable for light varmint loads to loads suitable for the biggest animals in NA.
2. Ammo availability and variety. Midway usa.com lists 54 different .30-06 ammo types as "in stock" compared to 114 types total. For the .270 Win it is 21 types in stock out of 54 types total. For the .260 Remington the numbers are 5 of 15. For the .257 Roberts it is 0 of 13. And so on...
3. Ammo prices. .30-06 plinking ammo is often much cheaper than the least expensive ammo for other cartridges.
4. A .30-06 can often be downloaded to provide performance similar to the smaller cartridges, at very similar recoil levels.
5. Try as I might, I cannot upload my .257 Roberts to do what I can do with my .30-06 rifles. The same is true with many of the smaller cartridges.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not against small cartridges per se, and in fact like them a lot. My .257 Roberts is my favorite rifle and it does ***most*** of what I need done. It has been an awesome dual-purpose deer/varmint rifle. A good argument can be made for the .308 Win and while I like mine, it will not handle heavies as well as my .30-06s. My 7mm RM was my first centerfire and while I have a lot of sentimental attachment to it, I've never asked it to do anything I couldn't do with a .30-06. My 6.5-06AI is a great rifle, as is my .280 Rem, which will be my elk rifle this year. That said, if I had to let all my rifles go but one, I'd be left with a .30-06.
I wouldn,t say that the 110-125 grain bullets out of the 30-06 are overkill but that is just an oppinion as is your oppinion that they are. The comparison to the 30-30 ?
OP specificly said excluding the Big Bears so any comparison between the cartridges for bears is moot.
Never said that it was time to throw out all the 30-06 rifles
The fact that what most people do has never mattered to you and that you Zeroed a good friends Sons rifle for him and the the son was able to take his first elk with it using Managed recoil load has absolutely nothing to do with the op question.
You only listed part of the op question. The Question from the Op was for big game other than Big Bears
The OP Did NOT ask about Versatility AMMO availability AMMO prices Downloading a 30-06
But to address those issues Versatitily-the 270 Winchester for example with the right loads can be used for Varmints to the Largest game in NA as well as the 30-06
Ammo Availability- In the first place Midway USA is not the only place to buy ammo,In the second place Just how Many loads does one need for big game? A man can only shoot one load at a time out of his rifle ! And I suspect for the 270 Winchester as well as other cartridges that a person can find an a Factory load for the game animal they choose to hunt. In addition Bullets for the 270 Winchester and again enough bullets for other calibers can be found that are suitable for the game being hunted.
Ammo Prices- is really a moot point considering the amount of factory Ammo shot in getting ready to and shooting big game animals. That having been said I have many times seen 270 Winchester priced as cheap and sometimes cheaper than 30-06 ammo.
The 30-06 being the last rifle you would let go ? I could definetly have a 30-06 for a one rifle big game rifle for everything but the Big bears and would not have an issue doing so. I like the 30-06 HOWEVER the 270 Winchester Will be fine for every thing else and Kick me less in the process.
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