Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles When will 30-06 not work?

Reckon if it weren't loaded it wouldn't do ya much good.

The only time a .30/06 will not work is when it is unloaded and packed in its case.
Tremendously underrated
Under complicated
Vertatility that matches the greater majority of hunting applications
Recoil within manageable levels.
More than addquate bullets and powder choices
Been everywhere, Done everything
Progressively improves with time like a good wine which is a more perfect scenario than most users face.

speculation to be sure, same goes for the "luck" factor. All I can tell you is that *I* won't be using an 06 when the day comes. I'm certainly not in your league or Phil's (and by a long shot) but experiencing what I have experienced, there is just no way I would even consider an 06 for brown bear. I know it will work, I'm just not willing to slice it that thin.

I can recall, quite a few years ago now, shooting a sub 150 pound caribou with a 200 NBT from a 340 Weatherby. Instead of squarely drilling that young meat animal in the lungs, I very neatly splattered the paunch. I had done a sighting check just a few days before in a pretty good crosswind and had made an excessive amount of appropriate adjustments apparently. What should have been either a neat tip-over, or at least a brief circle and down, instead turned into a defiant stance against the efforts of gravity. To say I was surprised that a small animal could withstand that much 'energy' would be an understatement. It certainly never occurred to me that I failed to bring enough gun. I was quite embarrassed about the errors I had made in directing the bullet however.

Enough gun falls behind 1.) enough placement, and 2.) enough bullet in my book...

Count me in with the people who wished they had used something bigger. Last year I lost a cow elk, after shooting it broadside at just under 400 yards. The cartridge used was a 7mm RM with 160g North Fork SS @ 3048fps. The calculated wind drift at that range is a hair over 13 inches with 2166fps and 1666fpe. This load has never let me down before. Based on blood trail evidence (very dark blood and lots of it, including blood chest high on the brush on both sides of the trail), I believe the North Fork bullet hit the liver behind the lungs just under the spine and exited.

Assuming I could have made the shot with the same POA and my .338WM and a 225g AB launched at 2742fps, wind drift would have been a calculated 10.2 inches, possibly enough difference to hit the back of the lungs, and drop would have put POI about 3 inches lower. The bullet would have retained about 2144fps, not much different, but with 2296fpe, a 38% increase. Would the difference in POI (possibly three inches further forward and 3 inches lower), the additional frontal area of an expanded .338 AB bullet and an additional 600+fpe in retained energy made any difference? Unfortunately, no one can answer that question with any authority.

It is possible that I might have shot poorly with the .338WM, with similar results, although my last elk taken with the .338WM was at 487 yards with similar shooting conditions. After running through the scene hundreds of times in my mind, my own feeling is that it may have been one of those marginal situations where "something bigger" like my .338 might have made a difference in the final outcome, even if POI had been the same.

Sample of one, and no one will ever know for sure.

Jorge,

The question that started this thread wasn't, "What would you use if you ever hunted brown bears? Instead it was: "When will .30-06 not work?"

Please explain how your post has anything to do with answering that question.

Not trying to be a smart-ass, just trying to stay on point.

Coyote Hunter,

What does losing one cow elk right with a 7mm Remington Magnum have to do with when the .30-06 won't work? You can quote all the theoretical numbers you want, but any cartridge "won't work" when you shoot animals in the wrong place.

+1
Size will rarely, if ever make up for a poor shot. Had the bullet been through the lungs, it would not have been an issue. If a 7 mag won't get it done on an elk then nothing else will either. As to the 30-06 I have one that shoots very well, and I have complete confidence in it to 600yds, although I have not had to shoot any game with it that far. Last big mule deer I killed with it was 200yds, and a coyote at 310yds. If and when I can hunt one of our Montana grizzlies, I will use it. If I lived where the big coastal bears were I would go up to a .338, but not down here.

Accordingly, as "bwinters" asks, the 30-06 will not work when the user fails their intended purpose by poor shot placement. The 30-06 will always work if aimed properly.

Bla Bla bla bla bla, all I can tell you is that this Grizzly was mighty close and that hole is from a 25-35. I have heard people claim a 30-06 will bounce of a grizzly skull, well I haven't seen that happen...

Ah yes the semi regular thread where guys who have never seen or hunted grizzlies "know" they need a huge gun and those who do seem to somehow survive using guns that average smaller

Can we also talk about the 22 LR in this thread? (Seen a skull being fleshed once which also turned into an "unleading" procedure as a 40 grain - or was it 36 grains?- lead slug was extracted from a similar location on the skull's surface. [I'm calling the chicken who did that a decent shot, but a weak hunter: he should have gotten closer. ] ).



….. or used the more commonly issued Hornet.

Did you not read your own post, to which I was responding?



My response was to point out that there are in fact times when people wished they had used "something bigger" because "something bad" actually did happen. Admittedly this was a sample of one, as I pointed out. While it had nothing to do with dangerous game, that was not a requirement in the OP's original question. In this case it had nothing to do with a .30-06, either, but if you read your post, it did not specify a .30-06 as the base level cartridge against which the desired "something bigger" cartridge was measured.

Lastly, it is my belief, as stated in my post, "that it may have been one of those marginal situations where "something bigger" like my .338 might have made a difference in the final outcome, even if POI had been the same. " So in this particular case for me, wishing I had used something bigger is not just a "great cliche".

Yeah it is, because you're a cliche.

For years on the Campfire you've been one of those guys who insists on using super-bullets (especially expensive bullets) like the North Fork even on deer, because you don't want "a bullet that will work when everything goes right, but when things go wrong." What good did your North Fork do when things went wrong?

Now you've morphed into another cliche: The guy who makes a lousy shot and all of sudden a cartridge that's been proven for decades on big game isn't enough. You've decided, through some mathematical rationalizations, that a much bigger cartridge would have killed the poor cow elk. You gonna use North Forks in the .338 too, and hope the combination of a really expensive bullet in an Elmer Keith cartridge will kill cow elk when you hit them in the wrong place?

No, I didn't specify the .30-06 in my post because after dozens of posts on this thread, all on the specific subject "When will .30-06 not work?" I assumed EVEN YOU might realize my post was about the .30-06 as the "base level cartridge."

Back about twenty five years ago or so, I was talking with Mike McDonald, the now retired biologist for ADF&G, about bear guns. Since he did most of the necropsies on bears killed in "Defense of Life & Property" I was wondering what he saw successfully used and his answer took me by surprise. He said that more bears were killed with a 180 grain bullet out of a .30-06 than any other, by a large margin. He said that included DLP cases where it was killed or be killed. He said that most DLP cases were by folks moose or caribou hunting and had a run in with Ursus Horribilis.

Living in Alaksa for most of my life, carrying a .270 Win with 150gr C&C bullets for 14 years for everything, then moving up to a .338WM and a .458WM for another twenty some years, I finally settled on a .30-06 with either 165gr or 180gr bullets as my primary smokeless centerfire rifle.

Just my $0.02

Ed

The '06 is so ubiquitous that it is likely to show up in the top of any 'I killed it with this' list. Anyone who thinks the '06 is inadequate on anything in North America given its track record over the past century is...well...(I'm trying not to call Elmer a fool). If anything, modern bullet tech has elevated the '06 to the only thing you need for the entire continent.

Buy a .30-06, a .223, a 12 gauge, and a .22 and go kill every game animal on the continent and never lack for anything caliber wise. Of course, that's not the rifle looney way.

Use the wrong bullet at the wrong distance (velocity / energy)on the wrong critter and failure will be the order of the day. Put the right bullet for the job in the right spot,at the right distance,and the 06 will provide all the success you could want.

If you want more than that it's easy to find. Unfortunately bullet selection becomes more critical. The wrong bullet takes on more meaning from say a 300 ultra. More likely to need (want) a premium pill for a given job. The same can be said for the 243. You will be more likely to use a premium bullet in the same situation that an old cup and core would be applicable in the 06. At least that is what we are led to believe here in the funny papers. The 80gr TTSX in a 243 is touted to be a lightning strike on moose to mice. But,we still can't come to grips with the good old 30/06.

Hey,my 243(s) have been good to me. It's one of my favorite rounds.As is the 300 Ultra. I chose these 2 chamberings as examples based on personal experience. The 30/06 won't work when you are convinced you need a new rig. But you need to know that no matter what you choose,it has limitations. And not always in the form of effective range. I shot a little whitetail with a 270 Weatherby once with a 130 gr cup and core. Talk about bullet failure! Softball size entrance. Apparently 125 yards was a little too close. Had it been 450 yds,I'm sure I would have been quite pleased with the performance. On the same animal,at that same distance with say a 30/06 165gr cup and core of your choosing I bet the results would have been text book.

If the bullet selection and given velocity achieved from the 30/06 isn't suitable for your style of hunting don't buy one. I'm just lucky to be one of the fellers that can live out my days with the old girl. I've never seen a polar bear or rhino in the Gunny. No cape buff here in PA either. Oh it may be a little much for 200 lb deer. They never complained. Heck,now a days the 308 can be loaded to nearly 06 levels,and folks think it's the bee's knees for deer.

Summer time is the time to discuss the finer points of the 30/06. It's all about perspective. Cut and dried? He!! no. Thank goodness. I just love these threads.

Sometimes we overlook the obvious and make things far too complicated - as in 8 pages on this topic.

Maybe but I've rather enjoyed the conversation. I also think it demonstrates that a 30-06 with today's bullets (if you consider the Partition as one if today's bullets) covers a lot of ground as witnessed by the testimony of many on this thread.

If we skip over the discussion of which bear we are hunting, the 400 lb version or his 1000 lb cousin and we ignore bad shooting, something we have all done or lie about not doing, we can get back to the OP's question.
If you load the dang thing, have modest marksmanship skills, have confidence in the rifle and your ability to use it and match the bullet to the game, there are an extremely small number of anecdotal incidences to supply the exceptions to the idea that .30-06 Springfield is an entirely adequate firearm for hunting just about anything and everything.
The venerable ought-six is about as close to the fanciful "all-around" hunting rifle anyone could want. But then none of us want just ONE perfect rifle.......... It's easier to find the "perfect woman" or win the lottery than it is to live with one rifle. m2c