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hntnnut Offline OP
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I'm getting the urge for a muzzleloader, I like the basic premise of a "Rockey Mountain Hawken" longer barrel with 2 hinge pins and open to percussion or flint. And now my question is what caliber. My minimum is .54 but is there any advantage to go bigger like .58 or greater?

Last edited by hntnnut; 04/24/15.

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54 & 58cal are my top favorites. Mine is a 58 cal cva hawken I put together. A bigger ball leaves a bigger hole but after shooting an elk with a 54cal I had years ago, I'd easily take a 54cal if a 58 was not available. When you can drop a cow from 148 yards with a single shot through both lungs with 80gr pyrodex and a .530 round ball and she only makes it 60 yards with a good blood trail.... Theres nothing better!

I got a cva .54cal flinter on the work bench right now if you are interested in a flinter. Also have an unshot 54cal cva hawken percussion coming in hopefully by the end of next week thats never been shot. I plan on working on it and adding my own personal upgrades and such.

The last cva hawken I rebuilt and updated.
[Linked Image]

One before that
[Linked Image]

My personal 58cal. I have this one out to 170 yards so far.
[Linked Image]

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Check out the Pedersoli Hawkens. They are pretty true to type and are available in walnut and maple. .54 is as large as they go, I believe. They also make a fast- twist that handles conicals. They aren't cheap, but based on the Mortimer I had and a 1861 replica I saw a fellow hunting with last season, quality is good. The Lyman Great Plains rifle is fairly authentic looking and less expensive.

Most of the "Hawkens" sold by various makers before the inline craze started are really semi-copies of New England half-stocks. Many are good shooters, just not very authentic, if that matters to you.


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I always wondered what the Browning Mountain Rifles in 54 were like. They look very true to the Hawken pattern. Never shot one, but should have bought several over the years.

I like the TVM Lemen and Early Virginians, but I already have a pretty nice Hawken. Lemen in 54 or EV in 58 would be nice.

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Originally Posted by hntnnut
I'm getting the urge for a muzzleloader, I like the basic premise of a "Rockey Mountain Hawken" longer barrel with 2 hinge pins and open to percussion or flint. And now my question is what caliber. My minimum is .54 but is there any advantage to go bigger like .58 or greater?


Lyman Muzzleloaders, for I could never pay $1300 (after tax) for any muzzleloader
Great Plains rifle for slow twist preference and Great Plains Hunter for fast twist preference.
(Link) Lyman Muzzleloaders

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I also have a H&R 58 Huntsman for 225 sent to ffl because you can put other barrels on it

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I have a .58 Green Mountain slow twist barrel for one of my T/C Hawken rifles. One advantage to the .58, besides the extra thumping power, is lighter weight given the same diameter barrel.

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I'm kinda liking the Kit Carson Hawken kit Looks like a 36" barrel and can be had in 58 cal. It looks like a more advanced kit but if I take my time I don't think I'll have any problem.


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Originally Posted by hntnnut
I'm kinda liking the Kit Carson Hawken kit Looks like a 36" barrel and can be had in 58 cal. It looks like a more advanced kit but if I take my time I don't think I'll have any problem.


Which kit? If it is a Track of the Wolf kit, it's not one you want to tackle for your first build. TOW makes good stuff, but none of those are "kit" guns.

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Get a slow twist 58. They are accurate, and shoot well with any charge from 70 to 130 grains of 2f black powder and a 570 patched round ball. The big deal is that they are a stone cold killer and put deer on the ground like nothing you have ever seen. A hit in the shoulder area simply turns them over, and they don't get up.

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Originally Posted by Huntingnut
Originally Posted by hntnnut
I'm kinda liking the Kit Carson Hawken kit Looks like a 36" barrel and can be had in 58 cal. It looks like a more advanced kit but if I take my time I don't think I'll have any problem.


Which kit? If it is a Track of the Wolf kit, it's not one you want to tackle for your first build. TOW makes good stuff, but none of those are "kit" guns.


Thanks that is the kit I was looking at. Could you give a little detail as to what makes these "kits" so difficult to build?

Richard


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they are not a kit that just needs a little shaping and some stain. They require drilling, tapping, carving, shaping, basically everything you do yourself. Not something i'd care to tackle.

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Originally Posted by bigblock455
they are not a kit that just needs a little shaping and some stain. They require drilling, tapping, carving, shaping, basically everything you do yourself. Not something i'd care to tackle.


What he said. There is a ton of work involved. I've built some flinter longrifles, and feel pretty comfortable doing them. A Hawken build doesn't interest me at all. To do it right you need to be a good wood worker, and an excellent machinist. Like Bigblock said, they're not at all a kit. It's all rough parts and you do all the inletting, finishing, drill & tapping etc. TOW is quality stuff, but if you've never done a build that's not what I'd start with. Do a couple kits, then if you still want to try a build start with a trade gun or simple flinter. Not trying to talk you out of doing it, but just suggesting it's not where you want to start. Hawkens are pretty complex builds.

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Also, when I say kits, I'd recommend a Lyman kit. CVA/Traditions stuff isn't all that good. A Lyman Great Plains Rifle is a good gun, and a good kit to start on.

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I break from tradition in that I require a real recoil pad, not a steel plate.

While I'd prefer conicals, my TC, despite a 1-48" twist, won't shoot them better than 2 minutes of dinner plate which won't cut it. (Probably a victim of QLA.) It does modestly ok to about 75 yards with patched round balls.

I was really surprised, in a bad way, to see how much the market had changed a couple years ago. I'd really like to upgrade my accuracy but so far I haven't found a rifle I'd buy.

If you can find one, i'd look for a TC Renegade .54 or a Big Boar .58. Discontinued, so you'd be looking at used, and you want to be sure the bore is in good shape.

Tom


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Plenty of Renegades out there. Bore condition is iffy. Check the Williams Gunsight used pages. Prices are good and hopefully they will allow an inspection. Recoil pads are likely only on Renegade Hunter models or on Big Boars. Look like crap, but if you need it, you need it.

Used to work with a guy who had a Big Boar. He had a stroke and strongly suggested the fierce recoil from the Big Boar was the cause. He shot conicals. Why he thought a skinny little VA whitetail required that much lead is a mystery.


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I Just noticed a new .54 Lyman in the classifieds:

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/9818488/gonew/1/WTS:_Lyman_Great_Plains_Rifle_#UNREAD

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hntnnut Offline OP
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I saw on another site where someone did a TOW full stock flintlock build and documented the whole thing, I didn't see anything I would be scared of tackling. Anyways Talking to a customer that has a CVA kit in flintlock and unknown cal. he bought in 1972 that is willing to sell me for 100.00 bucks. He is supposed to bring it in for me to look at. Not really what I want but I just may take him up on his offer.

Richard


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A full stock long rifle build isn't as bad as a Hawken. The older CVA's are okay, $100 is well worth it.

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Here is the link to the build I was referring to.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/100435142N08/sets/72157639906...

I believe this is the kit he put together
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categ.../EARLY-HAWKEN-FULLSTOCK-FLINT-PARTS-LIST

Actually I kinda like this kit.

Huntingnut could you go into a bit of detail of what would make a full stock flintlock Hawken easier to build than a half stock percussion Hawken does it have something to do with the under rib? Still trying to get a grasp on the diffrences. thanks for putting up with my questions.

Richard

Last edited by hntnnut; 04/30/15.

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