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Been working up loads for my 25-06 ackley and it's really diggin 115 grain ballistic tips. I've heard reports that they are fairly stout so was just curious if anyone has used one on an elk and if you'd do it again?

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Never put one in an elk, but last season I put one through the shoulders of a 175 pound whitetail buck at 30 yards....point of near shoulder, out the scapula of the off side from my .25-06 @ 3100fps.

I would say they would kill an elk, and based on what I have seen as far as penetration, if you put them in the vitals, stuff will die.

Luck to you this fall

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I hope some one here jumps up and provides one of those cut in half bullet photos of the 115 gr 25 cal BT. I have used 115gr nosler partitions in my 25-06 successfully for moose and elk, but have been a bit gunshy with the BTs.
In my 7WSM 140 BTs are too frangible for my liking, but I have found the 120 BTs are a much tougher bullet...thicker jacket than the 140 in comparison to their length. I am not sure if the 25 cal has the thinner jacket. If the jacket is as thick as the 120 gr 7mm BTs, I would give them a try.

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I use this bullet in my 257 Wby and 257 STW, it shoots like a laser and kills anything it hits. I would not have any problems using it on a elk even out of a 25-06.

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I've only ever killed one antelope with them out of a 257 weatherby at around 400 yards so wasn't much of a bullet test

Last edited by laker; 04/25/15.
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Two elk with a .257 Roberts, and honestly can't say I would repeat the process on heavy pressured public land.



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Saying that, everyone does have to try things for themselves.


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Originally Posted by K_Salonek
Two elk with a .257 Roberts, and honestly can't say I would repeat the process on heavy pressured public land.


What was it about them you didn't like?

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Good question. I don't know. Have taken several mule deer and a couple of pronghorn with the 115 Ballistic Tips, with great results. Excellent bullet for that purpose. Accurate, lethal, good combo of penetration & expansion.

Elk? Huh. I dunno. Think I'd be happier with Nosler Partitions in the magazine.

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Initially I didn't want to reply because I knew I'd get jumped by folks. This isn't mule deer or proghorn...you are talking about a much bigger and much tougher animal. Yes, I know everyone realizes this. I personally think an elk deserves a tougher bullet than what has been proposed...for two reasons. 1) there are much better choices and 2) prepare for the worst...not every shot ends up being a perfect broadside shot.

Referencing the 7mm 120 grain BT: I've heard many times, and seen in print, that this bullet was intentionally made tough from the get go. Think it was something to do with it being intended for long range pistol rounds but can't be sure.

I wish you luck with your choice!


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I would hunt Elk with your load and setup and be happy , but if given the choice i would use either the 100 gr Barnes TSX or Nosler 115 gr Partition if using the 25-06


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Why not a 110AB instead? Tougher, still slips through the air well

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Originally Posted by laker
Originally Posted by K_Salonek
Two elk with a .257 Roberts, and honestly can't say I would repeat the process on heavy pressured public land.


What was it about them you didn't like?

Originally Posted by K_Salonek
Two elk with a .257 Roberts, and honestly can't say I would repeat the process on heavy pressured public land.




Had a rag horn just stand there till he decided to get wobbely. Good close punch just above the heart, he took his time to his knees.

Had a cow take off in a short burst and then just keep walking. Lost her trail like she ran out of blood, and she laid down 60 yards past the last drop.
She went a long ways with both lungs defeated.

Neither were BTs,however I believe there a good choice, just sharing as it seems elk take a good thump to make a believers out of them.

Last thing I want is a dead elk walking on public land.
Leaving the quarter bores and 100grs lower on my list.

Most have to try things on things for themselves. High pressure areas are more of a concern.

Last edited by K_Salonek; 04/26/15.

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"What is our best advice? Choose the most powerful gun you can properly handle and practice with... (and choose premium bullets). M. L. McPherson- Metallic Cartridge Reloading.

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Will it work? Yes. Would I use it? No. There are better bullets for elk. Barnes, Nosler Partitions and Accubonds etc.


You did not "seen" anything, you "saw" it.
A "creek" has water in it, a "crick" is what you get in your neck.
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In a word........No

Sure you can rationalize how it will work well in within set parameters, but I don't know how anyone could sleep at night going after an elk with that bullet. If you can, power to you, but do it long enough, and you will regret it. JMO


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Originally Posted by txhunter58
In a word........No

Sure you can rationalize how it will work well in within set parameters, but I don't know how anyone could sleep at night going after an elk with that bullet. If you can, power to you, but do it long enough, and you will regret it. JMO


The old timers must have been dang near insomniacs shooting piles of elk with 87gr bullets in their 250-3000's!!!!


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I havn't shot enough elk in my entire life to have been enlightend as to why some tip over while others would rather walk off.

I like partitions and tsx out of the Roberts. In the .25-06 I've used the same but also am quite fond of the Hornady 120gr HP. It's way tougher than most would believe, expands in a relatively controlled fashion, and penetrates deep.


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Originally Posted by BigNate
also am quite fond of the Hornady 120gr HP. It's way tougher than most would believe, expands in a relatively controlled fashion, and penetrates deep.


I'm fond of it too. Just wish our friends at Hornady would decide to make a few once in a while.

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I check the shelf for these all the time and haven't picked any up in over a year. I'm mostly loading partitions now.


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Samuel Colt.

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Originally Posted by southtexas
Originally Posted by BigNate
also am quite fond of the Hornady 120gr HP. It's way tougher than most would believe, expands in a relatively controlled fashion, and penetrates deep.


I'm fond of it too. Just wish our friends at Hornady would decide to make a few once in a while.


That bullet was designed specifically for elk.


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Originally Posted by TheBlueMountainApe
[quote=txhunter58]In a word........No



The old timers must have been dang near insomniacs shooting piles of elk with 87gr bullets in their 250-3000's!!!!


The old timers didn't care that much or lose any sleep if they lost an elk, they would just go shoot another one. I am sure they shot and shot and shot until he went down too. And if they had a bigger gun/bullet, they would have used it.


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Originally Posted by txhunter58
Originally Posted by TheBlueMountainApe
[quote=txhunter58]In a word........No



The old timers must have been dang near insomniacs shooting piles of elk with 87gr bullets in their 250-3000's!!!!


The old timers didn't care that much or lose any sleep if they lost an elk, they would just go shoot another one. I am sure they shot and shot and shot until he went down too. And if they had a bigger gun/bullet, they would have used it.


I'm curious as to what you base your knowledge on....


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Laker, I have used the 115 BTBT a bunch of deer/antelope/coyotes.. If I were taking my .25/06 for an elk hunt, I would use my supply of 115 gr. Part.. I am certain a 115 BTBT behind the shoulder would kill and elk.. But I would like the added insurance of the Part. or Accubond.. That Ackley sounds like a winner.. Have thought of having mine punched out, but doubt I ever do it..


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tx58 has a point.. One of the guys in our valley told of shooting at 5 elk as they jumped the fence near his upper pasture.. He used a 99 .243.. The last elk stumbled and fell with in sight.. He loaded his elk and went home.. End of story..


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"I'm curious as to what you base your knowledge on...."

History: read about shooting buffalo, etc

My own experiences: At 57 years old, I remember a time with it was "just an animal"

I think it is a good thing that today, we consider all life to be worth something. No, I don't go out and hug trees, but I lose sleep if I wound and don't recover game.


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Originally Posted by txhunter58
"I'm curious as to what you base your knowledge on...."

History: read about shooting buffalo, etc

My own experiences: At 57 years old, I remember a time with it was "just an animal"

I think it is a good thing that today, we consider all life to be worth something. No, I don't go out and hug trees, but I lose sleep if I wound and don't recover game.


You must have some dang interesting books if they tell stories of thinning down the buffalo herds with .250-3000's!!!!!


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Reread my post, it has nothing to do with what gun they used. I said in the past they didn't lose any sleep if they lost an an animal and you asked me how I knew this. History reveals wanton shooting of buffalo with little regard to wounding/ losing an animal. That is no longer the case

And you make my point for me. Of corse they didn't use such a small bullet for a buffalo. Just like I won't use the bullet in question for elk. With expert marksmen and within certain limitations the elk will die quickly with this bullet. I just won't take a limiting bullet on my personal hunts

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Originally Posted by txhunter58
Reread my post, it has nothing to do with what gun they used. I said in the past they didn't lose any sleep if they lost an an animal and you asked me how I knew this. History reveals wanton shooting of buffalo with little regard to wounding/ losing an animal. That is no longer the case

And you make my point for me. Of corse they didn't use such a small bullet for a buffalo. Just like I won't use the bullet in question for elk. With expert marksmen and within certain limitations the elk will die quickly with this bullet. I just won't take a limiting bullet on my personal hunts


Just as I suspected, no concrete information to base you claims on.


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LOL. If you say so. We will obviously never agree so I will stop trying smile I wish you well on your hunts. Really. I normally head to the Colorado elk woods shooting a 350--460 gr conical out of my 50 cal muzzleloader. This fall for the first time in 20 years I will be hunting with a centerfire rifle. I will be shooting a 165 gr trophy copper bullet out of my 30-06 and know it will come through for me for any reasonable shot presentation out to 400 yards. Last time I used a rifle I had a 160 gr nosler partition out of a 7 mm rem mag. Plenty of concrete out there on those being elk killers. We each have to go with our own comfort level. There really is no right or wrong. Only what works for you

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165gr by .308 wide seems very optimum for flat, with some zap when it gets there!

Favoring the upper end, it don't matter what I do to my 7mmRM does not like 160s, no how. To the extent of playing with the length of the bedding under the chamber, piller-block tension and playing with barrel supports, nothing. Load up some 140s and it's like adding a $thousand bucks to the rifle!

Took elk with 140gr nbts, gold results. Same exact data under 140gr Accubonds shoots just the same. But yet to take an elk. I would like to see little more penetration.

This rifle bullet subject seems to come up as often as best personal defense load for a .380 handgun.
Always the same answer, hard to pick a good .380 round, just as it's hard to pick a bad round for a .45acp .

Imo:
There is no replacement for displacement.

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I haven't seen Flinch post for several years but I knew he had some 1st hand experience with the 115 BT and elk/deer. I search back a few years and found this.

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/5950975/1

I killed a fat doe last October with my Bob and the 115. Worked quite well at 100; DRT.

[Linked Image]

Alan

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Originally Posted by GSSP

[Linked Image]

Alan

Beautiful rifle!


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Last fall's buck, .25-06, 115 Nosler Ballistic Tip. One of several over the years:

[Linked Image]

For elk though, well, that's why Partitions are available, no?

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Yep, I own a 25-06 too and it is one sweet deer rifle

Last edited by txhunter58; 05/04/15.

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I love my 25-06 and have taken a pile of Deer with it but I think there are a lot of better calibers for taking Elk out there. I have always believed bigger is better.

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I've shot the 257Ackley for 30years now and have killed a ton of deer w/it. I have always used the 115gr BT and it's always got the job done. If I was forced to hunt elk w/it I would use the 120gr Partition. The sheer mass of an elk would be my guiding reason behind my choice. Even though my gun is a 25-06 practically speaking...the heavier, tougher bullet would still be my choice. A lot of difference between a 150lb deer and a 600lb elk. powdr

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I tried the 115 bt's about 10 years ago. They were not tough at all - didn't like bone. I shot the rest of them into song dogs. They make a real good mess out of em. The Hornady 120 was the toughest I've used but starts dropping like a rock past about 250. I settled on the Sierra 120 because it really shoots well and falls right between the Nosler and Hornady for tuff. If I wasn't going to shoot a premium bullet for Elk I'd shoot the Hornady. I also heard a few good things about the 120 partition but never could get them to shoot worth a squat. Whatever you choose, just shoot strait and you'll do fine.

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257: I agree with you that the 120 gr Hornady and Sierras are good bullets, accurate and good terminal performance. But am confused that you picked the Sierra after commenting that the Hornady drops fast past 250 yds, since the Sierra's BC is worse than the Hornady's.

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There seems to a game with hunters to see who can kill an elk with the most inadequate bullet/caliber. The idea is to choose a bullet not recommended by the manufacturer and shoot it from a small caliber gun to see who can kill an elk without wounding too many. Nosler recommends the BT for deer and antelope, not elk. Their engineers have put in a lot of time testing it to know what it's good for. For elk they have AB's and PT's but those are too well built for the game players. To play the game, it's necessary to use the BT and hope it doesn't fail like Nosler predicts it will.

Have a heart. Elk are too great to wound. Use a bullet designed for the job.


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The b.c of hornadys 120 flat base h.p is better than the sierra 120 boat tail ? I wouldn't have thought that. All I'm going on, is what I've seen. Try the test, sighted at two, shooting at four, with the same load of powder. I'm interested if you'll get the same result.

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Originally Posted by Rock Chuck
There seems to a game with hunters to see who can kill an elk with the most inadequate bullet/caliber. The idea is to choose a bullet not recommended by the manufacturer and shoot it from a small caliber gun to see who can kill an elk without wounding too many. Nosler recommends the BT for deer and antelope, not elk. Their engineers have put in a lot of time testing it to know what it's good for. For elk they have AB's and PT's but those are too well built for the game players. To play the game, it's necessary to use the BT and hope it doesn't fail like Nosler predicts it will.

Have a heart. Elk are too great to wound. Use a bullet designed for the job.


+1


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Originally Posted by BarHunter
Originally Posted by Rock Chuck
There seems to a game with hunters to see who can kill an elk with the most inadequate bullet/caliber. The idea is to choose a bullet not recommended by the manufacturer and shoot it from a small caliber gun to see who can kill an elk without wounding too many. Nosler recommends the BT for deer and antelope, not elk. Their engineers have put in a lot of time testing it to know what it's good for. For elk they have AB's and PT's but those are too well built for the game players. To play the game, it's necessary to use the BT and hope it doesn't fail like Nosler predicts it will.

Have a heart. Elk are too great to wound. Use a bullet designed for the job.


+1
Since I've never seen one on here, I will comment this: -1. I doubt you want to hear any nuanced rebuttal anyway.


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Originally Posted by J257
The b.c of hornadys 120 flat base h.p is better than the sierra 120 boat tail ? I wouldn't have thought that. All I'm going on, is what I've seen. Try the test, sighted at two, shooting at four, with the same load of powder. I'm interested if you'll get the same result.


Hornady BC: .394
Sierra BC: .350

What are your MVs? N

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Originally Posted by HuntnShoot
Originally Posted by BarHunter
Originally Posted by Rock Chuck
There seems to a game with hunters to see who can kill an elk with the most inadequate bullet/caliber. The idea is to choose a bullet not recommended by the manufacturer and shoot it from a small caliber gun to see who can kill an elk without wounding too many. Nosler recommends the BT for deer and antelope, not elk. Their engineers have put in a lot of time testing it to know what it's good for. For elk they have AB's and PT's but those are too well built for the game players. To play the game, it's necessary to use the BT and hope it doesn't fail like Nosler predicts it will.

Have a heart. Elk are too great to wound. Use a bullet designed for the job.


+1
Since I've never seen one on here, I will comment this: -1. I doubt you want to hear any nuanced rebuttal anyway.


It wouldn't bother me. Everybody is entitled to an opinion.


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Originally Posted by BarHunter

It wouldn't bother me. Everybody is entitled to an opinion.


My opinion is if one keeps a 115 BT, within a reasonable distance and velocity parameter it will work just fine on a bull, small or large, or cow.

When even Nosler does not advise the use of a 130 Accubond out of a 270 Win for elk, I question Nosler's wisdom.

Alan

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Originally Posted by GSSP
Originally Posted by BarHunter

It wouldn't bother me. Everybody is entitled to an opinion.


My opinion is if one keeps a 115 BT, within a reasonable distance and velocity parameter it will work just fine on a bull, small or large, or cow.

When even Nosler does not advise the use of a 130 Accubond out of a 270 Win for elk, I question Nosler's wisdom.

Alan
There's a +1. I am not Nosler. Why would I care how or why they do what they do if I am not trying to be Nosler? Can I not decide for myself if something works or does not work? It seems the bullet manufacturers can't decide whether a particular product is for hunting or not. And that is what bullets are: they are products sold with marketing. Bullets sold as fancy for hunting because of some particular property demand a premium. That is why they are called premium bullets. A hunk of metal propelled at speed will kill. The variables define the what and the how. Certainly, within the realm of human ingenuity, I can work some things out for myself, given my purpose and my tools. I will certainly take a manufacturer's recommendations as a kind of input, but some of you seem to think that advertising somehow becomes unbiased and factual where bullets are involved. That is not the case, if for the simple reason that every manufacturer is biased toward the sales of their own products, at the exclusion of other comparable products. I'm not trying to be a dick; I am trying to point out a few simple realities.

I'd sure like an example of one of these 115gr 25 cal BTs that blew up on the hide of the ribs, or failed to break the spine or the skull on a well-placed shot propelled at modest speed. Even thin-jacketed varmint bullets become controlled-expansion bullets at the right muzzle velocity.


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Sure you can decide yourself. When a BT made for deer blows up and leaves a wounded elk, you can watch it limp over the hill and say "Now I know, they don't work."

I just just can't understand a mentality to use a product specifically NOT designed for the job.


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Rock Chuck, I prefer to think for myself. I can see that you have yet to learn what that means.


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"My opinion is if one keeps a 115 BT, within a reasonable distance and velocity parameter it will work just fine on a bull, small or large, or cow."

I can make the same argument for a 22-250 with a 55-60 gr bullet.

Power to the minimalists!


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Originally Posted by txhunter58
"My opinion is if one keeps a 115 BT, within a reasonable distance and velocity parameter it will work just fine on a bull, small or large, or cow."

I can make the same argument for a 22-250 with a 55-60 gr bullet.

Power to the minimalists!


Now give us your real opinion.


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Originally Posted by WyoCoyoteHunter
tx58 has a point.. One of the guys in our valley told of shooting at 5 elk as they jumped the fence near his upper pasture.. He used a 99 .243.. The last elk stumbled and fell with in sight.. He loaded his elk and went home.. End of story..


Thats pretty scummy. Sad to hear of slob hunters in Gods country.


Originally Posted by Archerhunter

Quit giving in inch by inch then looking back to lament the mile behind ya and wonder how to preserve those few feet left in front of ya. They'll never stop until they're stopped. That's a fact.
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We've used the 115 ballistic tip on elk, mule deer, whitetails, and mountain goat with no issues. Works well. I like bergers and scenars better these days but lot of stuff will get the job done.

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I had a 7mm ballistic tip 150 grain more or less blow up on a bull's ribs from 250 yards quartering away. The entry wound was the size of your palm and he covered over 500 yards before the shrapnel in his lungs bled him out. It was an easy trail to follow in the snow but a long way have a wounded elk walk that was hit right where I aimed.

Since then I've gone with Barnes TTSX bullets and will stick to deer sized game with the NBT's. They work great most of the time but id rather not take the chance that they wont at the wrong time.

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Any time I hear of a story where a BT "blew up" on the surface of a game animal, I immediately think of two things.

1. How old is the bullet? Was it pre BT "Hunting" where the jackets were thin like a varmint grade bullet or the newer, more modern, heavy jacketed BT where the jacket is thick towards the base, just like an Accubond?

2. What caliber/rifle did it come from and what was the impact velocity? Did it come out of a 308, 7-08/7Mauser, 257 Roberts or did it get launched from a 257 Weatherby, 7mm Mag....something, or a 300 Wissum, etc?

I'm not pointing fingers at anyone on this post.

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120 Partitions always shot very well out of my A-Bolt II .25-06 over RL-22 (don't remember the exact charge). Of course, a dink whitetail and a couple coyotes don't prove a whole lot about a bullet's integrity.
I did figure if I were ever lucky enough to go after an elk, they should kill one with any shot I had any business taking and always thought that would be my bullet of choice.

Of course, all but the greenest of newbs know that A-Bolts are totally unsuitable for the rigors of elk hunting....... grin

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A couple failures from the first version of the 7mm 150 on the shoulder of an elk from a 280 at about 250. Eventually a neck shot put him down. My brother was doing the shooting. This was early or mid 90's. We still debate why he kept shooting for the shoulder, instead of aiming 6 inches to the right. Both bullets 'varminted' in the meat of the shoulder. It was a mass of blood and mess, but there was no evidence that any fragments made it into the chest cavity, or if any did, there was no obvious damage. No idea of the impact velocity, but I do know that chrono'ing more recent fodder in that gun suggests velocities more associated with 7-08 than typical 280. He won't use BT in 7mm to this day. He loves them in 30 cal though, particularly the 180s.

I'd like to get my hands on some old 30 cal 150s or 165s for a 30-30 Contender. They rated them for opening at 1600. Not sure how much different today's version is, but Nosler doesn't seem to want to budge from the current 1800fps min.


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Originally Posted by Godogs57
Initially I didn't want to reply because I knew I'd get jumped by folks. This isn't mule deer or proghorn...you are talking about a much bigger and much tougher animal. Yes, I know everyone realizes this. I personally think an elk deserves a tougher bullet than what has been proposed...for two reasons. 1) there are much better choices and 2) prepare for the worst...not every shot ends up being a perfect broadside shot.


I've seen the 223 with 55 FMJs used successfully more than once on our big northern moose. I also know that a person really needs nothing more than a 22 mag for these big elg if you know what you're doing and use some discretion in choosing your shots. Then again, I once had an opportunity to try my new 340 Weatherby on a big bull in a classic broadside presentation. I placed 3 200 NBTs behind the shoulder- missing the big bones- and all were recovered against the hide on the far side. All were lethal, but a classic broadside isn't much of a test for a 340 considering that the same presentation can be as readily handled with just about anything else too.

The bottom line question hinges on how a fellow hunts the quarry in question. If you're willing to wait for another day to get the shot you need, go for it. If you'll use the bullet (and cartridge) in question to take whatever shot you've got today, then something tougher would seem prudent.


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I had such good results from BT's that I always discounted the blow up stories before it happened to me. The bullet could have been an old original model it was traveling about 3000 FPS at the muzzle so at 250 yards maybe 2700 or so as an impact velocity. Fragments in the lungs and a big hole for blood to spray out is what killed him.

I suppose if I shot every BT on hand loaded or boxed, and only bought from Cabelas you could count on them being new models - but I still wouldn't trust them for elk with the Barnes available that shoots just about as well in my rifle.

Those give me broken bones and exit holes, not usually available with BT's.

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Originally Posted by laker
Been working up loads for my 25-06 ackley and it's really diggin 115 grain ballistic tips. I've heard reports that they are fairly stout so was just curious if anyone has used one on an elk and if you'd do it again?



I'm guessing with an AI you'll be launching the 115g BTs at a minimum of 3100-3200fps. My primary concern would be with a high-velocity (close range) impact.

When my .257 Roberts gets carried in elk season, it is loaded with a 120g A-Frame at 2947fps. I don't worry about it splashing on a rib.

My choices would be the 120g A-Frame, 120g Partition, 110g AccuBond or 110g TTSX, all of which shoot iwell in my rifle.


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Originally Posted by laker
Been working up loads for my 25-06 ackley and it's really diggin 115 grain ballistic tips. I've heard reports that they are fairly stout so was just curious if anyone has used one on an elk and if you'd do it again?


Does Montana have a law on adequate bullets?

Such a tiny 115 gr bullet on a big animal is just looking for trouble.



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From Nosler's website:

Game Recommendations:
Hogs, Antelope, Deer


http://www.nosler.com/ballistic-tip-bullet/


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I have to go along with Coyote Hunter, the BT might work but there are better choices. The 120gr Partition killed the biggest mulie buck I've taken, nearly end to end penetration and exit. A couple of friends use the 110gr AccuBond and declare them to be the flavor of the month.

I have no problem using the 257Bob for elk, but the bullets are really important.


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Originally Posted by Savage_99
From Nosler's website:

Game Recommendations:
Hogs, Antelope, Deer


http://www.nosler.com/ballistic-tip-bullet/



Guess it won't work on coyote then either if nosler doesn't recommend it. Wonder if I can put those hides back on those coyotes and they will be fine?

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Originally Posted by laker


Guess it won't work on coyote then either if nosler doesn't recommend it. Wonder if I can put those hides back on those coyotes and they will be fine?

It takes a 270 for coyotes. Anybody knows that.

The experience I've had with ballistic tips is that they explode crows. I would not consider them for elk.


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Originally Posted by Bugger
Originally Posted by laker


Guess it won't work on coyote then either if nosler doesn't recommend it. Wonder if I can put those hides back on those coyotes and they will be fine?

It takes a 270 for coyotes. Anybody knows that.

The experience I've had with ballistic tips is that they explode crows. I would not consider them for elk.


You're misinformed. A .270 is only good for squirrels. Small squirrels.


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Originally Posted by Bugger

The experience I've had with ballistic tips is that they explode crows. I would not consider them for elk.


So if a bullet explodes stuff, does that mean it won't work on elk? Here's a 255 gr LBT hard cast wide flat nose at 2218 fps from my 9.3x62 exploding a gallon milk jug. Bet a crow wouldn't fair any better.

http://vid26.photobucket.com/albums...202218%20fps%20110%20yds_zpsomf5d2cr.mp4

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I've seen Ballistic tips fail too many times on deer to ever think about using them on elk. In a perfect situation with the elk broadside and standing, a lung shot would be fatal.
But where I hunt (In timber) perfect bullet placement isn't always possible. I use Barnes X bullets,Nosler E-tip or Hornady GMX bullets. The solid bullets work infinitely better on raking shots or frontal shots IMO and experience.

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Originally Posted by shootbrownelk
I've seen Ballistic tips fail too many times on deer to ever think about using them on elk. In a perfect situation with the elk broadside and standing, a lung shot would be fatal.


Which BT's? Older style? Newer "hunting" style? Which caliber running what velocity and at what range was impact?

Every time I see a post like this I basically ignore it unless their is the questioned information accompanying the post.

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Originally Posted by Bugger
Originally Posted by laker


Guess it won't work on coyote then either if nosler doesn't recommend it. Wonder if I can put those hides back on those coyotes and they will be fine?

It takes a 270 for coyotes. Anybody knows that.

The experience I've had with ballistic tips is that they explode crows. I would not consider them for elk.



Lol. A high power rifle made a crow explode so it's not a good choice for larger game. Crows are great test media.



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Originally Posted by Kaleb
A high power rifle made a crow explode so it's not a good choice for larger game. Crows are great test media.


I never considered bullet testing on crows. Thanks for the tip! Yeah, the elk I hunt are the same size and density as a crow, so it makes sense that I should test bullets on crows. I should look for a controlled-expansion wound cavity, I suppose...


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I blew a prairie dog up with a 375 ruger and a 260 grain accubond. So that basically tells me it would have bounced off an elk

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Originally Posted by Savage_99
From Nosler's website:

Game Recommendations:
Hogs, Antelope, Deer


http://www.nosler.com/ballistic-tip-bullet/

Funny they add hogs into their recommendation, ever look at the bone and muscular structure of a boar anything over 250 pounds....... much stouter then the average deer.
Antelope are built like birds, thin bones for speed.
My point being is there is more differences in a 80 lb. antelope doe and a 350 lb boar then there is between a 350 lb boar and an elk.
I know more then a few people around here that consider their 25-06s big elk guns and use factory loaded 120s ( figure .257 Roberts velocity) and do not litter the forests or mesas with wounded animals........ JMHO

P.S. I will be carrying a .300 with some type of Partition or big core lokts and the wife will carry the 7x57 with 160 gr. Partitions, so you know where my money is on.

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It must be very confusing to be Nosler. Or Sierra. Or Speer. Or Hornady. I don't think I've seen consistency in any of their recommendations. Nor do those recommendations match my or others' experience consistently.


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Bullet manufactures play it safe. They don't want to recommend a bullet, and have it fail.


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I was just looking in the Hornady #7 bullet list in the front of the manual. I picked up some 150 SST to try out in a 30-30 Contender 14", and took a peek at what Hornady thinks of this bullet: Muzzle velocity 2700-3600, recommended for medium and large game. Who here agrees with that? Anyone loading a 150 SST in their RUM for elk/moose? Yikes! I've seen them near-varmint at 3k on deer. Which isn't a bad thing at all.

From what I've seen, they should do just fine at 2100-2150 MV from the Contender for deer, and elk if I ever end up trying that. Maybe more expansion tests are in order?


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They should do ok at your velocities. I will never load them again for hunting, personally. I had 150 ssts dynamite on small
white-tail does. This was from an 18.5 inch barrel on a .308, so the velocity was only around 2600 fps. It was a lung shot also, which should not have done that if this junk bullet was as good as they profess. They are accurate, but I think that I would even prefer an a-max over the sst.

Neither are very durable, however. I much prefer the Interlocks.


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A "creek" has water in it, a "crick" is what you get in your neck.
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Bugger (and everybody else who thinks because a bullet "explodes" small varmints it won't penetrate on bigger animals),

Contrary to popular belief, big game bullets expand rapidly, usually within their own length after they hit skin. This has been proven over and over again both in media and game, and is the reason the most severe damage is around the entrance hole.

The exception to this is some hollow-points with tiny holes in the tip, such as Bergers, where the hole is actually closed during forming. These usually penetrate a couple of inches or so before starting to expand. But except in rare circumstances when they don't expand at all, soft-points, plastic-tips and hollow-points with actual holes in their tip all start to expand as soon as they hit something.

I have "exploded" varmints with various big game bullets over the years, including 100-grain Speer Hot-Cors from the .250 Savage, 180-grain Winchester Power Points from the .30-40 Krag, 220-grain Hornady flat-nose Interloks from the .38-55, and even 270-grain Core_lokts from the .375 H&H, which not only scattered prairie dogs all over but left a nice crater in the ground. Have also used various Nosler Partitions from the 60-grain .224 to the 180-grain .30, with the same effect. The very first Barnes Triple Shock I ever saw hit an animal was a 140 at around 3000 fps from a .270 Winchester, which hit a coyote right behind the shoulder at around 200 yards, leaving an ENTRANCE hole I could have shoved my fist into. I suspect it would have exploded a crow or prairie dog or even a jackrabbit just fine. Two days later the same rifle and load killed a spike elk, and the bullet exited the chest.

If you're going to come up with examples of why a certain bullet won't penetrate an elk, you'll have to come up with something other than blowing up varmints.


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The older I get the more I like the .25 cals, Ive had very good luck with accuracy and doing the job on whitetails up to 225# with 110 gr accubonds. A couple have been head on shots and both stayed together very well ,jello ed the vitals and ended up down around the cod sack just under the hide. In fact the first three bullets I have ever recovered in whitetails have, are accubonds,very best WinPoor

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Not a .25 fan, but this research article does the .25 proud. This study was covered by Layne Simpson in Petersen's Hunting, Oct. 2011, ppg. 64-69.

http://www.dnr.sc.gov/wildlife/deer/articlegad.html

Bottom line, .25's were at the top of the list of effective WT rounds. Also, soft C&C bullets killed WT's faster than harder premium bullets, runners covered half the distance before dying.

I think the sample number of 493 WT's was enough to establish statistical probability, soft bullets kill WT's faster than hard bullets.

I don't think the sample number was sufficient to prove .25's are superior, the differences were too subtle. Quarter bores looked good, nonetheless.

DF



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If your rifle will stabilize that bullet it will kill elk just fine. Been there, done that.


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This is a rare study for states, is it not? I don't know if I've seen its like before from a state DNR. Interesting data, but there are a lot of holes. Broad, generalized conclusions can be reached, but not answers to very many specific questions. It is surprising how different the 25 cals were in their ability to put down deer. I've been an advocate for fragile bullets on deer since I started paying attention to such things, but once again, there are holes in the study. Certainly, hitting a deer in the shoulder/spine with a hard bullet is just as effective as with a soft bullet. And impact speed matters, to an extent. And hard bullets in smaller cals vs soft bullets in larger cals, etc. So many holes. Still, I'm glad such studies are being done using sportsmen's dollars, if nothing else, to dispel some common myths.


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You are right, many unaccounted for variables.

About the only thing that comes close to a conclusion, WT's hit with soft bullets, those that didn't drop DRT, traveled about half the distance as those hit with hard, premium bullets. With such a spread in numbers and with nearly 500 deer, those data may be trying to tell us something.

Variations in calibers and rounds, too close to even form an opinion, must less show statistical relavence. But, of course, .25 cal. advocates can lean pretty heavy of those numbers... laugh

Yes, it is good to see someone willing to accumulate and report such data.

DF

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I watched a hunting show where the guy was shooting from a blind in TX. I only remember some details: he was shooting up a road, it was thick all around the road, his chosen load shot a Barnes something, he hit a good buck well, he lost it.

I quit watching TV altogether shortly after I saw this. They can't hear me when I yell at them.

I hope more and more people get over NEEDING a hard premium bullet for deer. Anything that shows that to be a less-effective plan is worth spending a few tax dollars.


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Sometimes it take an agnacy like that to collect and publish data.

But, you'd think we wouildn't need the govt. telling us the obvious, which bullets kill WT's better...

But, maybe so...

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Well I don't NEED the government for anything. I hope to convince others of the same day by day. That's another story...

Voices of reason are seldom heard in the din of the marketing blitz even within the realm of outdoor sports products. When people begin to realize that you don't get hot chicks by drinking a particular brand of beer, or you don't feel satisfied by driving a particular make of vehicle, nor is anyone guaranteed hunting success by using a particular brand of bullet; only then will things change.

We really can come to conclusions on our own. Every single one of us. Through actual experience. I doubt there are many adults in America that don't understand the basics of the scientific method, or the nature of basic cause-effect relationships. We get it wrong, all of us, at one time or another, but it seems to be a core aspect of human reasoning that is hard-wired into us.

Those in marketing know this. Their jobs are based on it. They help us misidentify. Those high in government have known this for ages. They are experts at misapplication and misapprehension of the basic law of cause and effect. Their power depends on it.

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I don't think you mean the only way people learn is by personal experience, but that's how it sounds.


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If everyone has to reinvent the wheel for himself, why have books, why have education?

In that scenario, we all enter this life in a cave with nothing, starting from scratch... frown

The beauty of civilization is accumulated knowledge and wisdom. giving us a jump on cave men.

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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
I don't think you mean the only way people learn is by personal experience, but that's how it sounds.


There are many ways to collect information. I don't know if I'd call that learning. I think that information should come from trusted sources, whether that is personal experience, or a widely accepted authority- such as yourself, John, or their father/grandfather, etc.

Some who claim authority don't deserve it. Many sources of authority are specious. Personal experience directs me who to trust. Beyond all that semi-ether, marketing is not an authority. There is no right of claim on valid information from marketing; in fact, the contrary.

The guy who builds houses should be able to tell you how to build houses. The guy who shoots a lot and kills a lot of animals should have something valuable to say regarding some effective ways to go about that. The guy who markets bullets may or may not know anything. It isn't his job to know. It is his job to promote bullet sales. He isn't bound by any claim to be openly factual or honest. That isn't the best way to sell things. That is what I am claiming.

Governments are filled with 'authorities'. They have to be. They have to market themselves as such. If it were widely understood that they are not needed, and aren't worth what they cost, and that there are better, faster, and cheaper ways to do those things that governments claim authority over, then they wouldn't exist must longer. Once again, honesty is rarely the best way to garner opinion.


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Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer
If everyone has to reinvent the wheel for himself, why have books, why have education?

In that scenario, we all enter this life in a cave with nothing, starting from scratch... frown

The beauty of civilization is accumulated knowledge and wisdom. giving us a jump on cave men.

DF


I didn't enter this world in a cave. Did you? None of us start from scratch. We look around and see a world in front of us. We let others make sense of it for us to a large extent. Those others may or may not be correct in their interpretations either. This is one of the core conflicts in the life of anyone who must take responsibility for their own life. We all build upon the ideas of the past, whether they are true or false, valid or invalid. There is no other way to do it.


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Sorry for the philosophy. I've got a migraine. Don't want to give anyone else one.


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Originally Posted by HuntnShoot


I doubt there are many adults in America that don't understand the basics of the scientific method, or the nature of basic cause-effect relationships.



Surely you meant "I doubt that there are many adults in America that do understand the basics of the scientific method, or the nature of basic cause-effect relationships"...?

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It is the case that many get it wrong in some ways, but in general, humans, even the dumbest turds mama ever crapped out, understand what to do when they are hungry, horny, or tired. Like I said, it is hardwired.


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That migraine must be kicking in around now... whistle

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In the immortal lyrics of Creedence Clearwater Revival: "There's something happening here. What it is ain't exactly clear."


“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
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Originally Posted by laker
Been working up loads for my 25-06 ackley and it's really diggin 115 grain ballistic tips. I've heard reports that they are fairly stout so was just curious if anyone has used one on an elk and if you'd do it again?


There seems to be a "coolness" factor around here for going minimal.

It works ok if you get that perfect shot and nothing else goes wrong.

I tend to be of the "Use Enough Gun" school. Big Northern Whitetails can easily weigh up to 300 pounds and you want to be prepared.

Elk, of course.....are just more of the same, maybe much more.

I feel happy with premium bullets in the 150 to 180 grain range in .270 to .30 Caliber, and I'd trust them for elk as well.

Things have always gone well for me. I like it that way.

Last edited by DancesWithGuns; 05/17/15.

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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
In the immortal lyrics of Creedence Clearwater Revival: "There's something happening here. What it is ain't exactly clear."

Buffalo Springfield, John?


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huntnshoot. The bullets I saw fail were early ones. I don't see a difference in the newer or older designs. If the new ones work so wonderfully, why did Nosler make the Accubond with the thicker jacket? The Accubonds work well, as do the Partitions.
I however like Barnes X bullets. No jacket or core to separate.
I just prefer not to use BT's on anything but paper. Ignore away!

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Originally Posted by HuntnShoot
Originally Posted by Mule Deer
In the immortal lyrics of Creedence Clearwater Revival: "There's something happening here. What it is ain't exactly clear."

Buffalo Springfield, John?


yep

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Yep.

That's what happens with an, uh, middle-aged memory.


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Originally Posted by shootbrownelk
huntnshoot. The bullets I saw fail were early ones. I don't see a difference in the newer or older designs. If the new ones work so wonderfully, why did Nosler make the Accubond with the thicker jacket? The Accubonds work well, as do the Partitions.
I however like Barnes X bullets. No jacket or core to separate.
I just prefer not to use BT's on anything but paper. Ignore away!


Seriously? You don't know the difference? Doing a little research and I found pictures of the differences in like, 2 minutes.

2nd from the left is the "new" BT with a jacket just like the the AB, 2nd from the right.

[Linked Image]

The "old" BT, on the far right, a 150 gr 7mm BT with it's older, thinner jacket.

[Linked Image]

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GSSP is that an amax on the bottom picture on the left? What is the middle bullet? How does one go about sectioning a bullet like that?

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Per the caption that accompanied the pictures, left to right; 162 AMAX, 162 Hornady BTSP, 150 BT.

When i've sectioned bullets, i've pinched them in vice grips and ground the bullet down, 1/2 way, against a rotary grinding wheel. Not as clean as the pics I posted.

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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
Yep.

That's what happens with an, uh, middle-aged memory.


CCR was better, anyway. smile

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Originally Posted by southtexas
Originally Posted by Mule Deer
Yep.

That's what happens with an, uh, middle-aged memory.


CCR was better, anyway. smile
Yep!


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Originally Posted by GSSP
Originally Posted by shootbrownelk
huntnshoot. The bullets I saw fail were early ones. I don't see a difference in the newer or older designs. If the new ones work so wonderfully, why did Nosler make the Accubond with the thicker jacket? The Accubonds work well, as do the Partitions.
I however like Barnes X bullets. No jacket or core to separate.
I just prefer not to use BT's on anything but paper. Ignore away!


Seriously? You don't know the difference? Doing a little research and I found pictures of the differences in like, 2 minutes.

2nd from the left is the "new" BT with a jacket just like the the AB, 2nd from the right.

[Linked Image]

The "old" BT, on the far right, a 150 gr 7mm BT with it's older, thinner jacket.

[Linked Image]


Thanks GSSP! I am not savvy enough to be posting pics like that, and I didn't know how I was going to convince shootbrownelk that he was seriously mistaken. Then I read down, and this awesomeness appeared!


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And once again, I'd love to get my hands on some 1st generation BTs in 30 cal. Hint.


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Originally Posted by HuntnShoot
And once again, I'd love to get my hands on some 1st generation BTs in 30 cal. Hint.


Why, unless you want to make a mess. I shot a total of two coues whitetail with them and both were total decapitations.


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Poked 2 or 3 of those in 180 grains through ol' Bull-alces with nary a fragment recovered.


......wait, there was one, a messy deal which encountered willows along the way and strayed rearward. I remember finding green plastic in the meat. (But the lung shots were clean and thorough.)


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Originally Posted by dennisinaz
Originally Posted by HuntnShoot
And once again, I'd love to get my hands on some 1st generation BTs in 30 cal. Hint.


Why, unless you want to make a mess. I shot a total of two coues whitetail with them and both were total decapitations.


Because the are more cases that shoot 30 cal bullets other than those that hold 50+gr of powder.


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Originally Posted by HuntnShoot
Originally Posted by dennisinaz
Originally Posted by HuntnShoot
And once again, I'd love to get my hands on some 1st generation BTs in 30 cal. Hint.


Why, unless you want to make a mess. I shot a total of two coues whitetail with them and both were total decapitations.


Because the are more cases that shoot 30 cal bullets other than those that hold 50+gr of powder.



You're missing the point. The old ones were grenades at times. The new ones, not so much.


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No 25 caliber cartridge or bullet has given me the slightest problem killing deer or antelope, but I've chased enough wound channels through elk with them to say they never impressed the hell out of me either in that role,compared to other stuff.

Even a pair of 120 Partitions fired into good sized mule deer bucks were riveted,bases squished and lead protruding,and lacked the muscle and jacket thickness to do a thorough job of smashing off side shoulders,unlike 270-130's and 7mm 140's, which blow right through the same mess leaving good sized exits at any distance from a few feet to several hundred yards. I can't imagine things would get any better on an animal weighing two to three times more. Maybe they have beefed them up.I'm no bullet engineer but seems there's only so much room to work with jackets and cores in a bullet that squeezes down a 25 caliber tube.

My own personal (bull) elk bullet criteria is that it has to smash (break) an on side shoulder,quartering on,reach the vitals and tear them up....and from quartering away do the same thing from the last ribs and have enough muscle to still smash a shoulder on the off side.(it doesn't have to go end to end since I don't generally shoot things that way).

But if I have to wait for a perfect broadside rib shot on any elk because I lack confidence in the bullet, I done brought the wrong stuff. Elk aren't so tough when you simultaneously bust up means of locomotion while destroying vital plumbing,too.

If there's any doubt it will do those things to an elk, I leave it home.I have to admit I have never used any mono on elk, but a 25 is still a 25 and straight line penetration is not the only part of the killing equation.There's frontal area of an expanding bullet as well,and enough weight retention to keep the expanded portion moving forward through heavy resistance.

I know enough about 25's to know they kill elk,but also know they aren't "ideal",at least to me. Maybe the new beefed up 115 BT will do these things and maybe it won't. The manufacturer doesn't mention the bullet being intended for elk. I think they make other bullets for that. Maybe it will on a meat sized cow but not on a herd bull...I don't know and have no intentions of finding out. It's just as easy to shoot them with something better suited to the task. JMHO. YMMV.

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Originally Posted by dennisinaz
Originally Posted by HuntnShoot
Originally Posted by dennisinaz
Originally Posted by HuntnShoot
And once again, I'd love to get my hands on some 1st generation BTs in 30 cal. Hint.


Why, unless you want to make a mess. I shot a total of two coues whitetail with them and both were total decapitations.


Because the are more cases that shoot 30 cal bullets other than those that hold 50+gr of powder.



You're missing the point. The old ones were grenades at times. The new ones, not so much.


I hate to state the obvious, but it is you that have missed MY point. Bullet performance has EVERYTHING to do with impact velocity.

Start the most frangible bullet at moderate to low speed and it performs admirably in tissue, expanding enough to damage what needs to be damaged, and holding together to penetrate on through. Doubt me? Take your most fragile game bullet outside and throw it at something. I'll bet it held together just fine.

As I alluded to, there are platforms to propel bullets like the first version of the BT that will allow them to perform admirably on game. I think Nosler knew what they were doing the first time, and I think they had good reason to revamp the line later. That doesn't make the first versions worthless. They are still bullets made with Nosler quality specs, designed for hunting game, with ideal expansion properties for my purposes.

I am not asking you to use them. You obviously don't want to. I am stating that I want to use them. The new ones are a bit on the tough side.


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One of the problems with the early ones was that the poly tips were defective and caused problems. They fixed that eventually. I much prefer a Nosler Solid Base over the original BTs and I have laid in a life time supply.


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Interesting. I killed some animals with the Solid Bases in calibers from 6mm to .30 and found them on the hard side, even though muzzle velocities were all in the 2900-3000 fps range. Much preferred how Partitions in the same sizes killed, probably because of the relatively soft alloy they use in the front core.

Like a lot of people I wasn't crazy about the first Ballistic Tips, but they solved the problems and I like them a lot now. They tend to both kill quickly and penetrate well. Oh, and shoot accurately too!


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I had good luck with the solid base bullets, and initially was pretty irritated about the new-fangled plastic-tipped Ballistic Tip Noslers...

But.. They sure did shoot well. Grudgingly, as I ran out of Solid Base bullets, I started using the B-Tips. Learned to put 'em in the chest rather than through a shoulder. Really quick kills!

Now I like them better. They've been wonderful from 6mm Rem, .25-06, .308 and .30-06, absolutely wonderful in the later versions. Still shoot great. Open fast. Penetrate very well.

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There is never a dead horse around when you need one.....


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I think the Ballistic Tips make an interesting point- The point being, by the time the average hunter shoots enough game with a bullet to make a valid assessment of it, they change the damn thing and you have to start all over again.

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Ironic ain't it?

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Originally Posted by DancesWithGuns

There seems to be a "coolness" factor around here for going minimal.

It works ok if you get that perfect shot and nothing else goes wrong.

I tend to be of the "Use Enough Gun" school. Big Northern Whitetails can easily weigh up to 300 pounds and you want to be prepared.

Elk, of course.....are just more of the same, maybe much more.

I feel happy with premium bullets in the 150 to 180 grain range in .270 to .30 Caliber, and I'd trust them for elk as well.

Things have always gone well for me. I like it that way.


You have got it all figured out...at least the way I see it. If I were King for a Day, I'd name you Secretary of State. It seems when you use enough gun, as you say, less crap happens. Provided we put the bullet where it's supposed to go. I am way too risk averse to trust a 115 grain BT on an elk, even though I love BT's on deer. Love your quote about "coolness factor going minimal"....I got torched for calling it "stunt shooting". Just hitched up my asbestos underwear a little tighter and rode on.


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Did i get lost in this conversation or did it switch from Ballistic tip to boat tail. i have used 117gr ballistic tip on 25-06 on elk out to 100yds and they work great as long as they are put in the right place as always.


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Either you're using some 117-grain bullet other than a Ballistic, or simply typed the wrong weight. To my knowledge Nosler never has made a 117-grain .25-caliber Ballistic Tip.


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You are correct it was the Boat tails that was 117gr and 115gr on the ballistic tip.

I can always stand corrected:-)


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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
Interesting. I killed some animals with the Solid Bases in calibers from 6mm to .30 and found them on the hard side, even though muzzle velocities were all in the 2900-3000 fps range. Much preferred how Partitions in the same sizes killed, probably because of the relatively soft alloy they use in the front core.

Like a lot of people I wasn't crazy about the first Ballistic Tips, but they solved the problems and I like them a lot now. They tend to both kill quickly and penetrate well. Oh, and shoot accurately too!



I agree, they are harder- much harder than the first generation BTs. I killed more than a dozen coues whitetail with the 60 grain solid bases and quite a few other deer with 165 grain version in 30 caliber. I suspect that they are no better than modern day BTs but much cheaper- my biggest knock on the BTs.


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Find something bigger. I know it can be done, just think that elk deserve better.

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dennis,

Your post reminded me that I also used the 60-grain .224 Solid Bases as well as "big game" sizes from 6mm to .30. But I used it only in the .220 Swift on animals from prairie dogs to pronghorns. In fact it was my favorite .224 bullet for big game back then, probably because it was tough enough to hold together when started at 3650 fps. It killed antelope about like a typical 100-grain softpoint from a .243, leaving a quarter-sized exit hole and putting them down pretty quickly.

It worked fine on rockchucks as well, but prairie dogs didn't perform the usual Swift aerials....


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Good times. I thought the 22-250 was the best caliber in the world back then!


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Seriously I don't care. You'll never convince me that a cheap Nosler ballistic tip is a better performing bullet than what I use. Thank goodness for the internet and all it's accurate information that can be had in like 2 minutes. I've seen those bullets used in real world hunting situations. Accubond do well and so do partitions. Hornady SST's and Nosler BT's, not so much. Barnes works well for me, I stick with them.

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I always get a laugh out of the phrase "real world".. Like most of the guys are living in a fake world??


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WyoCoyoteHunter,

Quote
I always get a laugh out of the phrase "real world".. Like most of the guys are living in a fake world??


I think lots of internet posters live in an imaginary world. Last summer someone told me they were going to kick my butt. So I told them I am 6'2", 240 pounds, twenty-five years old, been a Navy SEAL for ten years so come on. The very next post was by a guy from my town. He posted, "Didn't you just have a birthday yesterday? Aren't you 70?"

So much for the "real world" cramping my internet world.


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Originally Posted by Ringman
WyoCoyoteHunter,

Quote
I always get a laugh out of the phrase "real world".. Like most of the guys are living in a fake world??


I think lots of internet posters live in an imaginary world. Last summer someone told me they were going to kick my butt. So I told them I am 6'2", 240 pounds, twenty-five years old, been a Navy SEAL for ten years so come on. The very next post was by a guy from my town. He posted, "Didn't you just have a birthday yesterday? Aren't you 70?"

So much for the "real world" cramping my internet world.


LOL! Lots of truth about the 'net experts right there.


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You may well be right!!!


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the only difference between a 257 WBY. and a 25-06 is about 100 fps and I don't think the Elk will care at all. I have killed them with both rounds using a BT. and it did not look to me like the Elk could tell any difference

Last edited by REDMAN; 08/02/15.

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Originally Posted by REDMAN
the only difference between a 257 WBY. and a 20-06 is about 100 fps and I don't think the Elk will care at all. I have killed them with both rounds using a BT. and it did not look to me like the Elk could tell any difference


Agree with everything you stated...except the 100 fps difference. You can get quite a bit more than that.

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I'm talking standard load, yes you can soup them both up and the speed difference will expand but how much harm are you doing to your barrel? Would it be worth it, if they can't tell the difference? It is not worth it to me.


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Originally Posted by REDMAN
I'm talking standard load, yes you can soup them both up and the speed difference will expand but how much harm are you doing to your barrel?


New barrels are made every day. If you shoot a barrel out, that's a good thing. Means the rifle actually got used.

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Originally Posted by prairie_goat
Originally Posted by REDMAN
I'm talking standard load, yes you can soup them both up and the speed difference will expand but how much harm are you doing to your barrel?


New barrels are made every day. If you shoot a barrel out, that's a good thing. Means the rifle actually got used.


Yep. Plus I don't know many who load for a .257 Wby who put much thought into long term barrel life.

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A .257 Be will last about 1000 rounds if you range shoot it as well as hunt and if used ofr hunting only in the US, a lifetime and more is likely.

John


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It amazing how quick a 1000 rounds get spent:-)


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When i gave up Elk hunting i traded off my 257 WBY for a
25-06 TK3 with $500 boot,it's about 4lbs lighter, it does a good job. I could not be more pleased


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Originally Posted by REDMAN
It amazing how quick a 1000 rounds get spent:-)


If you’re worried about barrel life, a 25-06 isn’t a much better choice than a 257 Roy. Think 250 Savage, 260, 7mm-08, or something along those lines.

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It's been a good year, 2015, even though it ended on 2 Jan 2016. My son took his first deer at 200 yds with my custom pre '64 M70 in 257 Roberts and the 115 BT running 2965 fps. Hit in the neck she dropped like a rock, the bullet severing the spine.

[Linked Image]

Yesterday morning I spied 3 cows up the mountain behind my house. Texted Cory, a young friend and he was Johnny on the Spot getting here. The cows were up and moving but to "eat" so they weren't but a few yds from where I'd last seen them. After a 45 minute hike through the snow, I literally crawled into position and used my Eberlestock Team Elk pack as a rest. Layed there in the snow for some 15 minutes waiting for the perfect broadside shot, again, using my beloved custom pre '64 M70 in 257 Roberts and a 115 gr Nosler BT. At 220 yds I put one behind the left shoulder; no reaction. Turned quartering to me. 2nd one through the front left shoulder; she lifted up her leg. 3rd a few inches away. Front left quarter was pretty broken up. She turned to go into the draw and piled up only 20' from where it all started. Cory, thank goodness, offered to take out both hind quarters and I got the rest; all in one trip.

[Linked Image]

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GSSP, nice... I love the Rob, and the wood on yours, to quote the young, is "sick!"


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Fantastic! a case of prep. and opportunity meeting again.that 25 cal combo is heard to beat.


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Congrats on the fine cow and a great hunk of wood on the stock.


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Bullet recovery? I'm especially curious about how the one into the cows shoulder did.


Originally Posted by shrapnel
I probably hit more elk with a pickup than you have with a rifle.


Originally Posted by JohnBurns
I have yet to see anyone claim Leupold has never had to fix an optic. I know I have sent a few back. 2 MK 6s, a VX-6, and 3 VX-111s.
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Congratulations, on the deer and the elk!

And my goodness - what a beauty of a rifle...

Regards, Guy

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I wish I had recovered a bullet but alas, we used the gutless method to break the carcass down and pack it out. The left shoulder, being hit 2x from the the front quarter was pretty busted up; all wobbly with broken bone. Upon examination, we saw zero bullet fragments in or around the shoulder itself and the surface of the rib cage after the shoulder was removed. What we did see was 3 entrance holes into the thoracic cavity. Also, blood was coming from the nose/mouth of the cow indicating lung blood. Something to note: At the two entrance holes into the thoracic cavity that went through the shoulder, their was vegetation. We ascertained it was from the Esophagus as their is no way vegetation, from the gut area, could have made it forward to the entrance hole area.

To reiterate, it was a clean broadside 1st shot to the left side. I even waited until she put her left leg forward, exposing her rib cage even more. I used an aim point mid torso, just behind the left leg, trying to drive the bullet towards the right/off leg. A few seconds after the shot, she turned quartering to me and the next 2 shots went into/through the left shoulder. I know my shooting position, over the pack, was optimal and I wasn't shaking even though I'd been laying in the snow for almost 15 minutes and the ambient temp was about 20 deg F. My B&C crosshairs were very steady, shooting within 1-2 seconds of rechambering a fresh round.

Once she was down the 2 other cows had zero ideas of where I was; one running up the mountain draw at 10 o'clock, away from me and the other running nearly directly towards me, getting to within 50 yds of of me before veering off to go over the ridge to my left. Here is where I shot from, the elk being just below the tip of my barrel.

[Linked Image]

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