Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles 24HC Black Rifle Challenge Thread

UPDATE:
IF you wish to look back at a post referenced in the rankings, go to your preferences and set up your profile to view 25 post per page. Thanks.

Current Rankings:

Optics:
1) scenarshooter: .475 MOA (page 6)
2) tex_n_cal: .783 MOA (page 10)
3) KeneticPerformance: .819 MOA (page 8)
4) Fiddy: .896 MOA (page 14)
5) Certifiable: .935 MOA (page 10)
6) TWR: 1.083 MOA (page 12)
7) jimmyp: 1.085 MOA (page 5)
8) TWR: 1.110 MOA (page7)
9) Certifiable: 1.155 MOA (page 5)
10) wareagle700: 1.246 MOA (page 1)
Bluedreaux: 1.251 MOA (page 12)
BGunn: 1.265 MOA (page 2)
348srfun: 1.449 MOA (page 7)
tex_n_cal: 1.461 (page 5)
jimmyp: 1.537 MOA (page 5)
fredIII: 1.736 MOA (page 5)
Formidilosus: 1.787 MOA (page 4)
Mathsr: 1.928 MOA (page 4)
wareagle700: 1.968 (page 5)
TWR: 2.308 MOA (page 1)
deflave: 2.292 MOA (page 15)

Iron Sights:
1) rost495: 199-8x / 1.351 MOA (page6)
2) wareagle700: 167-0x / 3.320 MOA (page 1)

I don't agree with this. I had a Sako in the truck the same day I shot the AR, and I shot a 10 shot group with it before leaving. Measured 1.4 with a 7X scope.

Also, look at the number of times I shot my AR and what the groups averaged. 3/10" difference for six groups fired in different conditions with different optics by the same shooter? That makes it pretty clear it's a 2-2.5" gun for 10 shot groups.

IMO this is a test of the rifle/load. Not the shooter.



Travis

I think it's a test of both. I really wanted to give it a second try yesterday with a better rest but life got in the way.

Yep, definitely a test of both. For some the rifle is the weak link, some its ammo, some its the shooter. However, this challenge puts it all to the test.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, I'm confident enough in my own abilities to know that nobody is going to take my rifle/load combo, shoot 6, 10 shot groups, and walk away with a 1.5MOA average.

Likewise, if I shoot a proven 1.5MOA gun, it isn't going to average 2MOA.

I hear it CONSTANTLY at the range. "This one's a called flyer." Is it? Or can you just not admit your Savage/Vortex combo isn't as amazing as you thought it was?

Either way. Great thread, and thanks to wareagle for keeping track of it all.



Travis

It is what Travis says and what the rest say.

IF you know you shoot fine, its strictly a gun/ammo marriage test.

If you are not sure then it can be both.

Travis has enough rounds downrange and is one of those somewhat rare folks that may come across arrogant, but its confidence actually. That takes some doing and repetitive for some folks.

I used to think I really sucked, until I was having a bad day, and a Palma shooter I know very well says, how long are you goign to be miserable and shoot a worn out barrel? I says you really think so? Yep.

Put a new Krieger on as soon as I could, first 10 shots out of the Krieger were better than a LOT of the last shots of the old tube... I realized I had progressed, and since I had, I could concentrate more on both being even a better shto, AND knowing that I had to tweak the max out of the gun/ammo combo because I was at that point, somewhat capable.

FWIW on a side note, it still took me a few years to get to the point of being able to shoot 22 shots in a row without muffing a shot due to stress.... read a few mental books, figured that out, once I figured out how to shoot mentally, life was really better.

PS wish some more would plya irons. Sure hope I get time to shoot a few more irons to see if I can actually remember how to shoot again too.
Life keeps throwing curves... last was the storm that dropped a 40 inch post oak in the road... at least got part of that cut last night after work... 3 hours work there and we have about 25% of it somewhat cut up.

And a note, if anyone wants to play irons, I'll drop this info... you HAVE to focus on the front sight at all times, if it becomes blurry, you have lost... rear sight, blur, target as sharp as can be, BUT the front sight has to be the one thats sharp.

1.) I'm arrogant as well.

2.) I don't have irons on my AR. Gruff has an RRA with irons but I'm not sure if he'll let me use it or not.



Travis

I might take a stab with irons. I have a decent set of Troys on my .300 Blackout. And in fact it would be fun to try some other calibers too. There's a new AR10 barrel that needs installing.

But I think I'd really like to beat DeFlave using a Sharps...

That'll just lead me to beating your Sharps score with my 03A3.

Vicious cycle.




Travis

My guns will outshoot me. I am the weak link.

Take my first group, I was shooting pretty decent then pulled the 8th shot out 2", the next group, pressure had gotten to me and the jitters so it wasn't much better. I go back on my second attempt and shoot a .980 group then another flyer opened up the second target. Possibly a problem with the load or the gun but you just know when a shot feels right and when it doesn't.

I am going to shoot irons and the scoped challenge again but tropical storm Bill dumped another 8-9" of rain on us the past few days so it may be awhile.

Well, that's news.........thought you were just a little cocky.

MM

We could use an inch or so here. Its been in the 100's the last few days. Not much fun to shoot in and definitely no fun to work in.

1A. I always took that to be childish, and now I find out its been arrogant all along.

I remember getting up from 600 prone, some 15 minutes or so in a shirt, sweatshirt, and heavy leather shooting coat, in the summers here..... 3 specific times and seeing stars and being very wobbly... one of those times I almost hit the ground again before I got sat down.

100s plus ain't no fun. Its why I can't wait for retirement and AK at least 9 months of the year.

Thankfully my buddy Gruff is one that thinks ahead. He keeps irons on his AR just in case his optics fail. Unfortunately, his irons couldn't hit a 2X3' piece of cardboard @ 100yds.

So I improvised and borrowed this Colt A1 hunk of schit.


I had to do some zeroing and taping, but hey. It wears irons so it counts.











Travis

Nice. What's the correct sight picture for iron sighted AR's? Do you cut the target in half, set the target on the post, or float your target above the sight post? I have done it several different ways depending on the target and rifle but didn't know what the service rifle guys preferred while shooting at black dots.

Just got a NM carry handle. Will try with irons again on Sunday.

I honestly don't know how others hold and I had never really held on a bullseye before. All the targets I have shot irons with were the shape of a person.

I much prefer center mass to the 6 o'clock but I was more than done fugking with the A1 sight arrangement. I just held six o'clock to get it done.

I made my bullseyes after a few vodkas last night.



Travis

From the shooters I talk and compete with, more of the masters and high masters seem to shoot center of black. I shoot with a six o'clock hold and I'm nowhere close to being master status, I can occasionally shoot an expert score.

Short answer, yes.

1:9 Rock River LAR 15, National Match trigger
Burris AR532 scope
55 grain FMJ, Rem brass, CCI primer, 27.5 gr TAC. I have not tried anything else as far as reloads go. I loaded up several hundred of these for function and concistancy in hitting a gong in various positions. I most definitely need to work on my loads and my shooting. I tired using good technique on the first group and shot like crap. I just shot straight through on the second group and tightened up quite a bit.
3.28"average