In 2013 Harrison Beene ar AR Performance introduced a cat for the AR-15 called the 270AR. Its based on a shorted 308 family case necked down to the 277 in order to fit in a AR-15. Performance is pretty good with a 130gr bullet going a around 2800fps from a 20in barrel. Last fall a few of us started chatting about the same concept but in a 7mm. Bruce Finnegan took the lead and a bunch of us jumped in and funded the reamers and other tooling he needed to make the cat a reality. At first we were discussing just necking up the 270AR to 7mm but it soon was aparent that the shoulder needed pushed back a bit more to allow for the longer bullets. Bruce now has a 24in AR and a 26in bolt and one of the early testers has a 16in AR and a 20in on the way. The rest of us have about 12 in all have a variety of barrel lengths ready to get reamed once the reamers are available to the smith.
The bolts and barrel extenstions used are from ARP what they call the 800 series bolt. It fits a normal AR-15 carrier and made for the 308 case head. Its pretty beefy with rounded lugs and can stand pressures up to 60K. Bruce has a pressure trace system and calling top loads at 57k to leave a margin of safety.
Leverevoution powder is the key enabler and was designed for max velocity from smaller cases and its no surprise its the top performer matching 7mm08 factory loadings. We are getting 2830fps from a 140gr Nosler BT. He got some 160gr Federal Fusion bullets from Rocky Mountain Reloading which aren't normally available as a reloading bullet. I called federal and they confirmed a BC of .528. Max velocity is 2660fps which is a 57K but the accuracy nodes seem to be at 2600fps and 2550fps from a 24in barrel.
The cartridge OAL is 2.295 to fit in a AR-15 magazine we are using 6.8SPC PRI mags which seem to work best. About 7 rounds will fit in a 10 round PRI mag. The mag limitations do limit some bullet selections i have put together a spreadsheet of the bullets that will work about 50 bullets so far which covers from 100gr all the way up to 168gr. Basically the bullets with longer nose cones probably won't work in the AR-15.
When using leverevolution factory 7mm08 performance is possible so this AR cat will be large game capable including Elk and Moose. If your interested in our community project you can read on this thread on msrhunt.com and or the 7mm Valkyrie AR Facebook Group if your on facebook. The cat is not for everyone of course the preferred parent brass is 6.5X47 Lapua which is easiest to form but does require neck turning. The new Hornady Lock N Load neck turning tool has made that part easy. I have a 270AR and messed around with the Forster lathe and recently got the Hornady lathe and its way better. Neck turning is now a breeze. We kind of expect this to stay a small enthusiast cartridge not everyone wants a higher performance AR-15 for hunting but thats ok. its a cartridge we wanted.
The 6.5X47 parent brass uses small rifle primers. Here's a video of me making 270AR brass the procedure will be the same for 7mm Valkyrie AR but will be expanded to 7mm vs 270.
Less case capacity, but same speed.. Can I get a free lunch with that?
Yes less case capacity but getting 7mm08 factory velocities (also notice i'm not saying a 7mm Valkyrie AR handloads can match 7mm08 handloads). Sounds fishy but we are using newer powders like Leverevolution which is tuned to push pills 100 to 150fps faster out of smaller cases. You don't need the same size case now to get the same results as you used to need. The 7mm VAR design is taking advantage of advancements it powder to get similar performance out of a smaller case that will work in an AR-15. The lunch is not free because other trades off exist like a 7 round mag capacity and not all 7mm bullets will work do to the shorter mag. VLD's for example will not work for mag length loads.
'Four legs good, two legs baaaad." ---------------------------------------------- "Jimmy, some of it's magic, Some of it's tragic, But I had a good life all the way." (Jimmy Buffett)
Yes in the original post there's a couple links and you can see all the range testing for velocity and accuracy and pressure trace results. Every week more testing data is added all of it both good results and bad. This is a community project
Go to the link and see real the results for yourself its all there pics of the shot groups with charge weights, pressure trace graphs and velocities. I have lots of ARs and yes some grendels. I don't care if you like it or not but its real.
Just like Hornady Super Performance factory loads? Are those "magic"?
I'll never trust factory claimed velocities. And I sure won't trust any magic powder and fairy dust claims.
if you think there is no such thing as a better powder over the years, N500 series is a prime example, as was TAC... you are dreaming.
But I won't get into this exchange, either you like the proposed round or you don't. A million wildcats for all kinds of guns, take what you like and run it.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
I seen a guy on predator masters that did a 257 wildcat on the x47 case. IMO this is the best usable upgrade over the other cases out there. I think this wildcat makes the most sense in a 6mm version and a 22 cal version. near 22-250 performance. I hope the day will come when there are plug and play parts out there to build a standard bolt face ar varient. another interesting one is based on the br case
I seen a guy on predator masters that did a 257 wildcat on the x47 case. IMO this is the best usable upgrade over the other cases out there. I think this wildcat makes the most sense in a 6mm version and a 22 cal version. near 22-250 performance. I hope the day will come when there are plug and play parts out there to build a standard bolt face ar varient. another interesting one is based on the br case
Its the same guy hes calling his 257 the Bobcat. My 270AR is getting 2800fps with a 130gr Nos BT from my 20in barrel these velocities are real. I have not gotten my 7mm Valkyrie AR 20in barrel but when i do i'll video tape shooting it over a crony and show the primers. I don;t have a pressure trace system like Bruce does so can't show that.
yeah thats him, that is the most meaningful ar wildcat case I have personally seen yet. its not the WSSM case but it is a meaningful step up over say the grendel and 6.8 cases which IMO if they are loaded to equal pressures aren't enough of a jump over the 223 case to get excited about.
Here's some of the data Bruce has shared on www.msrhunt.com and the 7mm Valkyrie AR facebook page for the 160gr bonded Federal Fusion loaded with Leverevolution. Bruce is just shooting with a bipod and sand bags to make the results more "real world". A 7mm08 factory load gets right around 2600fps from a 24in barrel. In other words a 7mm valkrie AR with Leverevolution powder can get similar velocities with handloads.
Becasue of the poor performance for hunting. The 7mmBR cartridge is capable of 2,450 ft/s with a 139 gr. Compare that with 2800fps + with the 7mm Valkyrie AR.
I'm just a bit lost on the choice of a semiautomatic , magazine fed rifle with a 24" barrel. Why? If your founded in a semi there's a reason right? Fast follow up? So then why a 24" rifle. I'd rather see a pump carbine. Your not going to seeing that beast around fast enough to make semi matter.
I'm just a bit lost on the choice of a semiautomatic , magazine fed rifle with a 24" barrel. Why? If your founded in a semi there's a reason right? Fast follow up? So then why a 24" rifle. I'd rather see a pump carbine. Your not going to seeing that beast around fast enough to make semi matter.
I'm going with a 22in fluted barrel not a 24in barrel. Its due from Xcaliber this week.
My 7mm Valkyrie AR is coming together. This will be a high powdered AR-15 that matched 7mm08 factory performance but in an AR-15 thanks to leverevolution powder. All my parts choices were based around the intended hunting application.
I'm going with a magpul MOE stock and JP handguard both camoed. I got them from arhuntingrifles.com. For an upper i'm going with the Eisenach side charge upper with bolt combo. I think side charger uppers make sense because the charging handle is no longer under the scope getting in the way. I was going to use this stuff on the 300 Reaper but i'm getting the 7mm VAR barrels sooner so it's getting the stuff i already purchased.
For a lower i went with a billet lower from South Texas Arms. Brandon Sneed at South Texas Arms added the msrhunt logo if you want one contact him.
The upper and lower will then be camoed in the same pattern to match the other furnature. For a trigger i'm going with the Ruger 2 stage i think it will work well for the intended usage. For optics i picked up a Leupold AR Mod 1 4-12X40. While the rifle is capable for real long range shooting i don't think i need something more than 12 power for hunting. Jermey Beasey at Legond Armory is going to build it sense hes finishing the dipping work anyways.
I ordered a 22in barrel bolt combo should come in next week. Bruce (bigdawg) will ship it to legend-armory.com who is going to camo the lower and upper to match the furniture i got from arhuntingrifles.com. For a break i'm going Maxim Firearms they make a nice break. I want to be able still have the game in scope for a quick follow up shot.
You are soooooooo fhuqking amazingly full of fhuqking schit,that it borders on the fhuqking INCREDIBLE. Congratulations?!?
Via your Magic Pixie Dust you compromise a 308 case to 1.600" trim length and it MAGICALLY bests a 1.500" 7BR by 350fps as per your Imagination and it's Pretend,at like pressures,bullets and barrel lengths?!? Then it smokes a 2.00"+ case length trim 7-08 Factory Fodder with like bullet weights and barrel lengths?!? Especially via them "Racy" 160gr Fusions and their fhuqking copious bearing surface?!?
Dumbfhuqk...you are in soooooooooooo farrrrrrrrrr over your pointy head,that it is simply Gawdammmned Fhuqking Amazing,that even someone as fhuqking STUPID as you,is oblivious to the fact! Bless your heart.
Ignorance IS Bliss. Laffin'!
Cheer up,I've shot more LeverEvolution in a day,than you have in your dismal "life".
Now in "fairness",I may or may not shoot the 308 case in a multitude of lengths/configurations in both SAAMI and Wildcat guise,via more than a few bore diameters. Hint. That defines "gross understatement". Re-hint. Laffin'!
"Flutted" was a nice touch too and rivals "break".
REALLY enjoyed the Case Forming Goat Fhuqk too! With a 7BRX you reap a 162A-Max in mag confines,with ogives above mouths(Stoner mags). Hint.
Keep making schit up,if only because it's fhuqking HILARIOUS.
The preliminary results are in on the performance of the 7mm Valkyrie AR as far as velocity over a large range of bullet weights. Thanks to new powders like leverevolution the 7mmVAR gets velocities normally associated with 7mm08 factory loads. A 140gr Nos BT at 2800 to 2830fps, 154gr SST at 2700fps and 160gr Fusion at 2600fps to 2660fps and lastly a 168gr Berger at 2600fps. These are well documented 7mm08 velocities and the hunting capabilities of the 7mm08 are well documented. In other words if guys are having success with factory 7mm08 ammo on particular game we can safely assume the same results or very very similar with the 7mm Valkyrie AR since the performance is the same as factory 7mm08. 7mm bullets have excellent sectional densities that are appropriate for medium to large game. For example a 7mm 160 grain, has a sectional density of .283 which is considered CXP3 which is the category assigned for large game such as red stag, kudu, elk and moose.
The 7mm also have ballistic coefficents (BC) in the high 400's to even low 600's for some bullets. The Federal 160gr Fusion bonded bullet has a BC of .528 for example. The Hornady 154gr SST has a BC of .525 better than a 140gr 6.5gr SST of .520. These high BC's mean that to get long effective hunting ranges and they don't require magnum velocities to get those ranges. Basically if your hunting in normal hunting ranges below 500 yards you don't need a canon to hunt with a 7mm. The 7mm08 has a well known record of taking everything from deer to moose. A google search of 7mm08 and moose brings up all kinds of examples of moose and some very large trophy moose taken with 7mm08.
Hornady came up with the H.I.T.S system for hunters to get general ideas for effective hunting ranges and to aid weeding through internet hype and forum spin that are ever so common. Its general it helps a hunter validate what they read online. Usually when someone says they don't trust Hornadys H.I.T.S system I find they are hyping an under powered caliber recommending it for game its not ethically capable of taking or simply don't like the results for there favorite caliber. You can get Hormady H.I.T.S numbers for a particular cartridge by running a bullets caliber, bc and muzzle velocity through a ballistic calculator to get velocities for various yardages. You then take those velocities and run them through Hornady H.I.T.S. For example get if want to see what H.I.T.S predicts for the 7mmVAR for a 160gr Federal Fusion with a MV of 2600fps with a BC of .528 to get the velocity at 400 yards. Then take that velocity at 400 yards and then run it in the H.I.T.S calculator on the hornady website. The results validate that the 7mm08 and 7mm Valkyrie AR are big game capable cartridges. A score of over 900 is considered big game capable for Elk and Moose. Hornadys H.I.T.S system indicates that a both the 7mm08 and 7mm Valkyrie AR are large game capable to past 350 yards. The H.I.T.S score drops below 900 at 390 yards which is a velocity of 1990fps at sea level as the elevation goes up so does the range its in the large game category.
7mm VAR 160gr
Drag Function: G1 Ballistic Coefficient: 0.528 Bullet Weight: 160 gr Initial Velocity: 2600 fps Sight Height : 1.5 in Shooting Angle: 0° Wind Speed: 10 mph Wind Angle: 90° Zero Range: 100 yd Chart Range: 1000 yd Maximum Range: 6318 yd Step Size: 10 yd International Standard Atmosphere Altitude: Sea Level (0 ft) Barometric Pressure: 29.92 Hg Temperature: 59° F Relative Humidity: 50% Speed of Sound: 1116 fps
The 7mmVAR cartridge has a shorted over all length (OAL) of 2.295in to fit in a AR-15 . This smaller OAL means that not all 7mm bullets are appropriate for the 7mmVAR. The spreadsheet list is a good resource to check if a bullet will work. If the ogive is to far back the bullet may not work. We've documented about 50 bullets from 100gr to 168gr that will work in the 7mmVAR giving the hunter selections from varmints to Moose. Solids copper bullets for 7mm are generally 140gr pills but lower grain do exist like the 130gr Cutting Edge MTH and Barnes 120gr TTSX. Moose have been taken with the 7mm08 and the 120gr TTSX. The Cutting Edge MTH bullet has a decent BC of .460 so I would probably go that route as a full copper bullet. I mention that because California goes lead free in 2019 making the 7mmVAR and like calibers the 270AR being another example as good choices for that state. While the sectional density is lower the actual “terminal sectional density” has the same results as larger weight lead bullets. Tests of copper solids show that lower weight copper bullets penetrate flesh and punch through bone like much larger lead based bullets.
The velocities I mentioned are from a 24in barrel and compared to a 7mm08 24in barrel. Its likely as a hunter that you will not want to use a AR with a 24in barrel. Maybe a 20in or 22in fluted barrel make more sense which means effective hunting ranges will need to be adjusted down. Early testing indicates that velocity drop is about 28fps per inch with the same charge of leverevoultion. Some of that velocity could be gotten back most likely with faster powders in the shorter barrels. The most common barrel length for 7mm08 are also 20 and 22in barrels.
Taking the real world experience with large game and the 7mm08 and hunting effective range calculators like the Hornady H.I.T.S system shows that the 7mmVAR is a large game capable cartridge with in reason. If your an ethical hunter and don't take what I would call unreasonable shots at game the think the 7mmVAR makes a good choice for medium to large game in the AR-15 platform. In fact the 7mmVAR actually delivers more energy down range and gets higher H.I.T.S scores than some calibers only available in the AR10 like the 308, 6.5 Creedmore and 260 Remington. You read that correctly because of the velocity and big BC's and high sectional densities the 7mmVar actually has competitive or in some cases better stats than main stream cartridges in the larger heavier AR10. If your like me your going to run those numbers to challenge that statement please do you'll see what i'm talking about. For example a 308 with a 165gr SST at 2840fps (factory hornady) is in the large game category to 330 yards according to H.I.T.S compared to a 160gr 7mm at 2600fps with a big game capable range of 390 yards to give you some perspective.
Hornady came up with the H.I.T.S system for hunters to get general ideas for effective hunting ranges and to aid weeding through internet hype and forum spin that are ever so common. Its general it helps a hunter validate what they read online. Usually when someone says they don't trust Hornadys H.I.T.S system I find they are hyping an under powered caliber recommending it for game its not ethically capable of taking or simply don't like the results for there favorite caliber.
Hmmm.... Internet hype and forum spin you say?
What does the H.I.T.S. system say about the .220 swift and feral burros at 4,140 with a 45gr bullet?
Screw you! I'm voting for Trump again!
Ecc 10:2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the 24HCF.
Hornady came up with their hits system to sell loaded ammo to boobs whose effective range is limited by their ability rather than their cartridge. They get to look at the box and believe that it immutes the ability to kill things at the listed distances, and it is always more profitable to sell a dream than reality.
I ran into a snag the shop that was going to match the camo can;t get the pattern that i already have the furniture dipped in. It does not seem to be on the market right now. I decided to have new parts dipped for this build. Going to still use the Magpul MOE stock but for the front stock i'm going to use a Bushmaster free froat tube they are commonly seen on Remington R-15's. For a camo pattern i'm going to use True Timber MC2 its got a sage type pattern.
Another 7mm VAR owner got some good data this weekend on performance. You can see all his data and results on the 7mm valkrie AR facebook group. This verifys Bruces pressure data.
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