Home Forums Reloading Bullet Casting neck expanding cases

HI..do I have to expand the neck of the 30-30 case if I am going to reload cast bullets...

Everything I have read says so. Lyman has some "M" dies that bell the case mouth for lead bullets: http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/dies/rifle-die-details.php?brand=3&cartridge=26&die=52

Driftless, differentiate between expanding and flaring. 2 different things and both necessary in the main. The idea is to not deform the bullet during seating. Expanding the neck follows sizing and if insufficient can result in reduced bullet diameter a small bit, maybe a thou or two. Lead bullets are dependent upon proper fit to great degree and poor fit can degrade accuracy. Flaring is done to preclude shaving lead off the side of the bullet for the same reason. It does not require a lot of flare however. If the bullet base will fit without impinging on the case mouth you're good to go.

Thanks.I guess I need a die to flare the case neck a little bit to prevent shaving lead when seating the bullet.I want to load some light plinking shells with Trail boss and commercial 160gr lead bullets from Acme.

I like the RCBS neck expanders. Works better than the M dies. I have used both.

As an alternative you can use a vld reamer or bridge reamer to put a very mild chamfer on the case mouth after trimming your brass. I've found brass chamfered thusly will allow seating cast bullets with no lead shaving.

get a needle nose pliers, close it, put in the case mouth then press and twist, it only takes a little, tadaaa, case flared to seat cast in.

I'v tried to put a mild chamfer on the case and seat lead bullets, they work well sometimes. that is until you tilt the bullet a tad sideways, in the seater die (you won't know this until it's too late)and it shaves one side.

blammer I like the price of your reloading die.I was thinking of using the flaring die form my 32hr mag dies.

When loading cast bullets in my .35 Whelen I use the Lyman M die, no shaved lead.

Being a user of various dies for that purpose, I will admit to just putting a heavy chamfer on the case mouth a lot too. The key is a heavy chamfer, not just a couple twists with a chamfering tool. No lead shaving , but straight line seating is critical- as it should be regardless of one's approach. I started doing that 45 years ago when I didn't know any better and adjunct loading tools such as neck expanders weren't in my lexicon.

Interesting - I use both also and find cast bullets seat straighter for me in cases belled with the M-die. With jacketed bullets, I have no preference - different stokes...

Shooting cast in a rifle, your accuracy can go up or down because of neck tension. Hence NECK EXPANDERS. I have found that if you remove the expander ball from your dies and use a expander like the RCBS or a custom made one your accuracy will improve way more than using the conventional way of pulling the expander threw the neck. The necks are way straighter. Using needle nose pliers is a sure way for your bullet to enter not straight.

JGray, it also helps if you use a Foster Benchrest seater.

It sounds like we may not be comparing apples to apples. I have almost zero experience with cast bullets in bottleneck cases requiring neck expanders. Almost everything I do with cast is in straight wall cases (handgun and rifle) where sizing and belling is all that's needed. With straight wall cases, I back off the sizing die quite a bit so I'm partially resizing to achieve just enough tension to hold the bullet. Are the custom expanders you refer to larger to reduce bullet tension with cast bullets?

First buy the Lyman cast bullet book. 22 bucks on Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/Lyman-Cast-Bu...=8-2&keywords=lyman+cast+bullet+book

Suggest you join site www.castboolits.com (note spelling). A great site for newbies or those that have been casting for 60 years.(me)

The M expanding dies are great, You buy 2 die bodies (long and short) and what ever screw in buttons you need. From 22 Hornet to (at least) 500 S&W you are covered.

Just bell the case enough to avoid shaving the bullet. A hard roll crimp in the crimping groove is required for heavy kickers. I find for light loads in rifles the Lee crimp die works better.

41 Swiss with a 44 Magnum level load @ 50 yards



450/400 No.1 with NEI 395 grain wheel weight gas checks lubed with SPG @ 1600 fps 50 yards.(5 shots)



three 45 caliber round balls @25 yards from my 458 No. 1, loaded on my porch in Key West. @ 900 fps they would hurt a lot.

Short answer, as others have indicated, is "yes".

How and how much depends on several factors including the design of the bullet and case, alloy hardness, gas check or none, how deep to set the expander plug, and inside and outside diameters. Very small dimensional differences do matter.

I load cast bullets in the 30-30. After sizing I expand with a Lyman M die. As with all sizing operations, the more you work the brass the shorter its life, so I strive for the minimum that will work. One thing I found is that a conventional inside deburring tool doesn't relieve enough inside edge to always prevent lead shaving. Following up with a low angle chamfering tool takes just enough off to increase the taper and prevent shaving. It may only need to be done once. I haven't tested it enough to determine if I need to do it after the first reloading of the case.

With a 30-30 and tubular magazine, you will have to crimp the bullet after seating, taking out the flare. I prefer the Lee factory crimp die. This is another step that works the brass, so the case mouth is the part that takes the most beating from repeated working.

Loading cast bullets can be fun and produce good results, once you have your procedures down pat. It isn't for the lazy, though.

Paul

7x64fn I to take my reloading outside from time to time.I use mostly lee stuff for my on the move reloading.It seems to work as good as my higher dollar stuff...Paul39 thanks for imfo I will bell the cases just enough to prevent shaving just like I do with pistol shells and lead..Yep reloading takes time but the time is mine and its all for funnseys

Just to be clear, I deburr and chamfer (sort of the same thing) along with the bell that the M die produces, if you set it deep enough. It may be that if you produce enough bell you won't need to chamfer, or not as much. It seems that belling and chamfering work hand-in-hand.

In any event, you'll know you're good to go when you can seat a bullet smoothly without shaving lead. You'll probably have to tinker to get just the right combo.

Paul

I've tried the RCBS expander, the Lee Flarer, Lyman M die, and even the pliers method in the beginning! Great minds...

The Lyman beats the others by a mile when it comes to straight seating with a std seating die, in my experience. I also learned that a combo M die and Lee case flare works best going from sized case to .311" bullets in 30-30 and 30-06. I don't mind working a press a few times, and through a lot of trial and error I have found what works best for what I shoot. I think all of us develop our own little tricks, once we've gotten an assisted start and much trial and error under our belts.

tomme boy, how in God's name do you seat cast bullets with a Forster BR seater die? Did you have them polish the chamber sleeve out to a specified diameter? I ask because both my .260 Rem and .308 Win Forster BR seaters won't permit cast bullets to enter the chamber sleeve because they are too tight. They "float" .308" and .264" jacketed bullets when I seal the other end of the sleeve. I size to .311" and .266" for cast bullets in those guns. I have tried all of them and prefer the Lyman M die by a pretty good margin.