Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles 280 instead of 280AI????

I am riding the fence on 280 vs 280AI. Here is the deal, I am a small guy that hates recoil as I shoot a ton and love practicing with what I actually hunt with in the field. The thing is, I have a 280AI on order and am thinking about changing it to the standard 280 for a couple reasons. First off, the standard 280 loads will perform well enough for me, without the extra recoil of going to the 280AI. Also , I like the idea of being able to get NORMA 280 brass instead of NOSLER 280AI brass. I like that the Norma brass is a buck a piece as well as having a better reputation of quality brass over the Nosler 280AI brass being $1.75 a piece and having a little more of a spotty reputation.
What else am I missing here?
Which caliber will be easier on brass and barrel life? Also how noticeable is the recoil difference?
Im thinking hard about changing my order to the standard 280 instead of the 280AI....
I know the regular 280 isn't as cool, but then again Ive never been that cool anyways!!!

There is not going to be a significant recoil difference.

What action and stock?

Why the 280 at all. The ammo is not easy to find. Consider a 270 or less.

Here is an excellent slip on pad I use at the range.

Why not buy the Norma brass and fireform it? I personally couldn't tell the difference between the ackley and standard. If you are starting from scratch might as well go 280 ackley. Not costing you anymore or less. Dies, brass, and chambering is all same cost. And less trimming with 280 ackley

Norma manufactures Nosler's brass....

Recoil difference between the two would be insignificant.

If you're recoil sensitive buy a 7mm-08.

Load 140 Partitions at 2850 ft/sec MV and go kill stuff.



P

I've had both and still have 280s. The AI is not worth the trouble, IMO.

And the 280 is plenty cool.

But if you're really recoil sensitive, why not a 270, 25/06, 257R (it's cool ) , or even a 243?

^^^^ I'm with Pharm. You'd be set with a 7-08 shooting any 140-150 grainer.

The 270win shooting 110 barnes is another good, easier recoil load from what I hear.

Ok looks like the 280ai gets the nod over the standard 280. I kinda figured it would be preferred. I just wished there was a way of getting 280AI brass with the correct headstamp. I am anal as hell and would rather my brass have the right headstamp. Is nosler brass not a big deal to most of you? I just really like norma and lapua brass.
Scenarshooter....Are you saying that the nosler 280AI brass is actually made by Norma?
If so, that is awesome.

I thought hard about the 7-08 as I can get Lapua brass for it, but thought it may come up a touch short for Elk. I would rather have one rifle for everything from antelope to Elk. I want said rifle to be good out to about 600 which is my max comfort zone when conditions are perfect. The 7-08 Im thinking is really pushing it for elk at those ranges,

7-08AI?

I'm not sure how, based on the answers you got here, you came to that conclusion.

If you are really recoil sensitive, the 7/08 or a .260 would be a better choice provided you don't also decide to go to a lot lighter rifle as well. Another answer is to load light practice loads.

Also, if brass price and availability is a concern get a 7mmRM and have the best of both worlds: brass availability, lots of components. If recoil is too much, load it down to 280, standard or AI.

You will still have to burn more powder to load a magnum case down to standard case velocities.

I prefer the 280AI, but if you are a handloader, the 280 w/140 Parts would have slightly less recoil, particularly if you follow book loads for the 280.

I haven't had any issues with either version of brass from Nosler and have been using the AI brass since they came out with it.

I've shot the standard 280 for over 25 years and never found it lacking. I've had a 7 mag for 30 so I never went for the AI version. If I was sensitive to recoil I'd do a 7X57.

Norma does make 280 Ackley brass.

There are many good choices out there, but the 280AI is one of those rounds that I would consider nearly perfect.

That is ...if you're into headstamps!

Considering that what you want to do can be done nicely with a 308.

That is...if you're into bullets!

But if you really don't like recoil get a 7-08, 7-08AI or a Creedmore, and spend a few long nights on JBM.

But whatever you choose, I'd be more concerned with things that really do matter...like bullets, mag length, optics, etc...headstamps not so much.

You can form either much cheaper '06 brass . . .

I'd take the 280. It never really needed any "improvement".

In the AI you can shoot either cartridge. Not so the other way around. Start off with the 280 Rem, then sell the dies when you have enough AI brass made by firing. Use the same powder, bullets, primers, and everything else. Best of both worlds, but once you switch to the AI, you will be glad you did.

As scenar shooter stated , Nosler brass is made by Norma....... Just sorted and chamfered and such.

I am a big fan of the 280 A.I. but there is nothing wrong with the 280 Rem. If you hand-load I would vote for the 280 A.I. If not you might consider the 280 Rem. I doubt you could tell any difference in recoil between the two in an 8 lb rifle unless you shoot heavy for caliber bullets. I shoot mostly 140 grain bullets in my 280 A.I. in a rifle that weighs exactly 8 lbs scoped up and recoil is pleasant to me. Noticeably less that a 30.06 shooting 180 grain bullets. Ultimately it comes down to a personal choice. Get the one the like the best.

OK, my mind is made up....lol
Im ordering a Montana rifle company 280AI with a custom #5 contour barrel and flutes in the morning. Thanks

Ummmm....

Ditto.

I think he had his mind made up before he asked the question, then looked for responses that supported his decision.





P

There are generally three types of folks that ask questions here:

1)Those who never listen to any type of advice. They simply don't listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.

2)Those who seem to think that the advice given makes sense, but do nothing about it. They’re usually very imaginative and make up all sorts of excuses for not following good advice.

3)Those who examine and analyze the advice carefully, find out that it makes a whole lot of sense, and actually embrace it.



billiam, we'll be changing your moniker to billiam#1.

If you REALLY have to ask about the differences between a 280 and a 280AI,well.....I guess you have to ask.


.....a #5 contour, on a hunting rifle, is off my radar.

Unless all your hunting is off your belly.

Looks like more folks here will have to recommend the #5 to get the OP off that kick.

Perhaps he has a gunbearer.....

Oughta tame some of that brutal AI recoil😜

Lay off the redbull and huntin' magazines as you've had too much of both.

You forgot one...

4) I have purchased or ordered something, am having second thoughts, and want someone to tell me I didn't make a mistake.

every one of you old hens has second, third and fourth thoughts over builds...or you don't have enough yet

choosing the 280AI was obviously divine intervention...:)

Skippy also wants to convert a 300WSM to a 260......

Lemme guess, mid 20's, monster truck, lives at home, camo hat w/fishhook on brim, wears work boots but don't work.

Loves Ted Nugent, has a hard on for AR's, never switches off the Sportsmans channel.

Cabelas catalog in the schitter. Wait, forgot........iPad (moms) in the schitter, Cabelas book marked.

Scope will most likely be a Vortex, lotsa X's. and turrets.

You guys remind me of growing up in down town Houston. When you would get in a fight with someone of a certain culture, you had to fight them all. They would all gang up on you in droves because they were a bunch of cowards that couldn't fight you one on one. I don't no what sparked the unfriendly or down right hateful responses, but hopefully you all feel better about yourselves now. Thanks for all of the help there tough guys!!!

You shoot "out to 600 when conditions are perfect" yet are stumped by 100ish FPS and a headstamp.

What's your "600 yard" bullet of choice?

Agreed.

I have both. I like both. As long as the meat is in the freezer it really doesn't matter what you whacked it with.

It's a given on this forum.

Maybe some of your comments caused others to question your knowledge. It happens on the internet from time to time. If it ruffles your britches, maybe you should try a knitting forum or something where opinions aren't a big part of the discussion.

Or simply "tuffen up", dude.

Lighten up, Francis. I made an observation and others agreed. You're not the first guy to ask for opinions after already making up your mind.



P

I think you made the right choice. Now you won't have to change your handle.

(personally, I thought a 7mm-08 was the best choice)

I see you say that you live in Wyoming. Thats great because I hunt in Duboise every year. I would be more than glad to give you the opportunity this fall to "toughen me up" as you put it. I have no problem passing info along this forum with you so that we could make that happen.
As for the rest of the tough guys here. I was just on the fence about my purchase because as stated before Im not a large guy, and As far as being RECOIL sensitive, I don't mean that I can't shoot heavy calibers. I can, but I probably shoot my "hunting rifles" more than most people do, because I believe in practicing with what I hunt with. As of right now I hunt with a Sako 270 WSM but after fifteen to twenty shots, I notice my groups starting to open a little. I am just getting BACK into reloading and was looking for something a little different than what I currently have. I have a 300wsm as well that I really like shooting 180's out of , and once again, after fifteen to twenty shots my groups start to open up a little. Im not an experienced reloader, but I do shoot a lot and shoot out to six hundred quite often. I don't have access to any land yet to shoot further.
On a final note, as for all the TOUGH guy comments, save them. I was simply asking some questions trying to get some friendly opinions. Sorry I ruffled so many feathers. As a guy who has practiced MMA for the last ten years I get my ass beat around on a daily basses in real life, I don't really want to have it done on the internet as well.
To all the people who tried to help, THANK YOU. I really appreciate you and your time. Sorry for all the ruckus.

The poll is in...you're still and idiot.

How did you come up with that conclusion by reading the posts here?

How far are these elk you're shooting that "the 7-08 will come up a bit short?"

I, for one, am impressed by the MMA comment.


P

Now that's some funny schit, I should guessed Monster Energy or Rock Star. And now you tell the rest of the story.



BTW, you'd be miles ahead with 1:8 twisted 260, sporter + balance and something Lapua shoved into a Lapua.

In fact, Tanner has a rig in the classifieds that would fit your bill......

16 bore......what rifle are you talking about in the classies? Thanks

Nobody's trying to act TOUGH. Pretty much everybody's trying to help. YOU came across in a way guaranteed to draw a bunch of wisecracks from the cranky old farts that frequent this place. Everybody here catches Hell, and dishes it out from time to time and everbody occasionally or frequently acts like an ass. We all think we're funny and sometimes we are. If the locker room atmosphere here rubs you the wrong way, better clear out. Otherwise, welcome.

Tanners badass rig


He's as good a dude as they come.....

I'm not that old.

Thanks 16bore!!

Agreed.

My first ".270" had ".280 Rem" stamped into the barrel. I got the .280 Rem dies and started working up loads. Sold that rifle, a nice Ruger #1, after 3 years and bought a Ruger Hawkeye All-Weather instead. Since I already had dies, the Hawkeye was also a .280 Rem rather than a .270 Win.

One thing I learned was that for many years, back before I had a chrono, I had been shooting my 7mm RM at .280 Rem velocities or just above. During those years the 7mm never let me down. With the exception of an unfortunate buck antelope that was the subject of a Barnes XLC bullet test, game went down quickly, often at the shot. (The problem with the antelope was a bullet problem, not a cartridge problem.)

While I don't have a problem with the .280 Rem AI per se, I do see it as a niche cartridge for loonies. (Full disclosure - I have a custom 6.5-06 AI, another loonie cartridge.) The gain over a standard .280 Rem is marginal and no matter claims to the contrary, it can't reach 7mm RM levels of performance. A claim has been made the .280 Rem burns less powder than the 7mm RM but that is debatable - to reach top performance the difference is negligible at best and requires compressed load densities up to 109% (better crimp those to keep the bullets from moving). In other cases the .280 Rem won't reach those levels of performance but might save 7 grains of powder or so - a 1 pound difference in consumption for every 1,000 rounds loaded (and with an even more marginal difference, if any, over standard .280 Rem performance, which burns even less powder). Do the math, 7 grains amounts to about 3 cents per cartridge and you're not getting top performance. When I have to worry about 3 cents difference in hunting cartridge costs it will be long past time for me to stop hunting.

Had that Ruger #1 been chambered for a .280 Rem AI, I would have purchased it just as quickly. After it was sold and I bought the Hawkeye it would still have been a .280 Rem rather than a .270 as I already use 7mm bullets. It is highly doubtful, though, that I would have rechambered the .280 to an AI configuration, opting instead just to buy a standard set of .280 Rem dies. My 7mm RM will do everything the .280 Rem will do and then some and I can easily download it to .280 AI or .280 velocities if desired.

Give me the standard .280 Rem. No muss, no fuss, lots more load data, easily obtainable and inexpensive brass with the proper headstamp and more factory ammo options for those times when such is needed. And performance that is more than adequate for most tasks. (And when it isn't, I wouldn't be reaching for a .280 Rem AI.)

YMMV

OP, from the responses, a lot of people here are reading you like an open book.

I think I better move before next hunting season. Now that I know the OP is into MMA, I'm feeling insignificant and vulnerable, and I'm not sure if my life is in jeopardy or if he just wants someone to drink coffee with him. Or maybe he plans to invite me for coffee and then karate chop me in the throat when I have a mouthful of coffee.


It's all pretty scary either way.

Cranky Old Fart (C.O.F.) is a state of mind.

We all do that.

Bayou....You are the one who is easy to read. Anyone who goes to your profile and looks at your posts which I have, can see there is nothing of substance there. Every one of you comments are demeaning and belittling, no matter what the subject. I can't find where you have tried to help anyone anywhere on any subject. You are a smart ass bully, and that is the exact type person I can't stand. You come on the internet and look for any opportunity to degrade someone, and why? All because momma didn't play with you enough.....oh yeah, and dad played with you a little too much possibly! Im done with you, have a great day. BTW, there is NO SUCH thing as a Karate chop, those are only in the movies. lmao
Enjoy you coffee

Several thoughts:

A) I have a 280 AI & like it a lot

B) the factory 280 Rem out there is loaded to lower pressure than similar cartridges (25-06 & 270), but hand-loaded 280 Rem gets close enought to AI velocities when loaded to like-pressures

C) 280 Rem factory ammo is nearly as difficult to find as 280 AI

D) there are different versions of the 280 AI and Nosler brass doesn't work in them all, while 280 Rem factory will fireform in all chambers

I think they're both fantastic cartridges but don't think you'll be able to tell a difference between them recoil-wise.

The only thing that needed improving in the 280 Rem was SAAMI pressure specs. Otherwise it's superfluous to AI it.

Have you taken a look at these in a side-by-side comparison in a ballistics calculator?

I was astounded at the minuscule difference between the two when I started loading them at about the same time.

There isn't an elk on the earth that'd tell the difference between them.

I'm impressed that you took the time to read everything I've posted here and from that you then have the ability to characterize a complete stranger with lewd outrageous remarks about his parents. My parents raised me just fine with no problems and I was taught to never talk down to anyone with remarks like those. I'm truly sorry that you obviously missed that in your raising.

As for the karate chop remark, I injected that to counter your silly remark about being martial arts trained; as thought that might make some of us cower in fright in your presence.

I'd buy the 280 AI if I were you just because its obvious that you're special and you seem to want a bunch of complete stranger to validate your decision.

Carry on dude. You're impressive in your own special ways.

See what happens when you forget to call "No Mothers"?

Actually, where I grew up, it was "No Muvs, Man".

I bounced between the two cartridges myself a few months ago. I decided on the 280 Rem, and a #5 contour, 27in stainless Shilen bbl. I built mine for hunting out of blinds, while using sandbags. Nope, no long walks with this rifle. I have a Ti in 7-08 for that!

Going to start working loads soon.

This.

There isn't 75 ft/sec between them if you load them to equal pressure and similar barrel lengths. I've only had both a 280 and 7 RM since 1982 and may have shot a thing or two with both. For deer size game at 'normal' deer ranges, I'll take the 280.

based on what's been said on the fire regarding the 120 grain ballistic tip. I'm going to try that bullet this year and my new M70 FWT 280 (when it arrives) . Should be able to reach 3100+ which would make it a faux 25/06. and I know that combination works well for deer

The biggest single reason I could never gin up to the 280AI, is that with a Rem 700 action (or any action long enough) you could throat a 280 long with anything from a 140 to 160 gr bullets,seat longer, and in a 24" barrel the velocities were almost indistinguishable from what a 280AI gives.

This was especially true with double based powders like MRP and the Reloder22. And of course,the 7 Rem Mag handily and routinely beat both if you wanted a step up in velocity with heavy bullets in the same action and barrel length,without pounding on the petal.

In circles of shooters I communicated with everyone"knew" this even as far back as the 1980's-90's. So very few bothered with the AI.

Among those few who did, the disappointment rate was high;they all abandoned it.

At any rate I have fired many thousands of 280AI rounds....from a 7 Rem Mag loaded less than full throttle.So the cartridge squeezed into too narrow a niche between a standard 280 and a 7 Rem Mag for me to ever bother with.

I was surprised when I got on the CF and discovered the 280AI had any traction at all. I had no idea anyone used it.

Musta been the circles I ran in....

Bob I agree 100%

One of my friends in constantly on me to punch the chamber on my 280 Mountain Rifle. I always respond I have a 7 Mag

Since, I hand load 95% of the ammo I shoot and have for decades, I saw no downside to the AI version last month when I bought my new Kimber Mountain Ascent. With the same costs and labour, I an have about 100 fps. more with my favoured 160 bullets, so, why not.

I bought my first .280Rem. in 1981, built my first custom, synthetic stocked one in 1985 and currently own three very choice mountain rifles so chambered. I know what it can do, it is my favourite standard cartridge and all my AI will do is give me even more performance and fun......end of story, IMO.

People like saying salsa.....

Its a Judy chop....get this stuff right

Gentlemen we are all products of our experiences and feed back therefrom..

Sometimes logic even sneaks into the equation.

You will be assimilated. The aura of the .280AI is too strong to resist forever.

But this one goes to "11".....

Why not a .270 Win. and avoid the hassles involved with the .280 Rem. or the .280AI. All three are great cartridges; in fact they are almost as good as the 30-06!

And there he is

Any of the .284 diameters are vastly superior to a .270...


And they're not gay.

Yup,just little sissies.

I have parked my 270










for now

I don't believe you...

You shouldn't

Whatever it is, I'm sure it will be on me before I can fend it off. Just like a thief in the night.

I'm dreading hunting season.

The prey usually does.

7mm08, 120 TTSX at 3,000 fps. I'd think that would work on elk....

Under 140 gr. they vastly ain't.

I heard a .277 130TTSX at 3,100 bounces off. Be careful.

True that.

We need to tell the 270-defunct animals all about this. I'm sure it'll make them feel better.

Yes but will it make them feel .007" better?

'cause that's what he wanted in the first place.

What else could an MMA fighter chose?

Bob, if stuff died in front of a .270 it must have been some kind of anomaly...Ive never personally heard of it happening, but theres always that chance..

Seems no consideration is ever given to the platform, but just the slight difference performance. Maybe someone's making 7# 7mags somewhere, but I've never seen one. Montana 7WSM will go 7# done. If an 8# rig is whats on the table, might as well fill the chamber to the top I say, and keep it simple.

I don't see an 8# 280 as worth the effort. If I were after 7#, then yes to the 280.

Remmie's box and throat in 7RM is perfect as far as I'm concerned.

Tikka makes a 7 Rem Mag that'll go 7# all up, not that I'd own another...

Tanner

I didn't even think about Tikka. Pretty funny actually. I'd pass on a 7# 7RM myself.


And did.

You'd have a ball with the 1:8 223 T-3 SL/SWFA10MQ, BTW

Just for grins, I googled "Is 280 AI gay?"

I got this:



I tried "Is 280 Remington gay?"

I got this:



I think I'd stick with the 280 Rem.

Lots of seamen either way.

Man, if only you could have a rifle that could shoot BOTH .280 Rem AND .280 Ack.

Wouldn't that be something?

Purefuckingenius.

That makes far too much sense and will never catch on. Now, if you neck the case down to .277 and rework it a bit, you might really have something inferior that will drive Joe Public wild.