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anyone used 1680, when the temps rise up around 90 to 100 degrees?

got some loaded up, that are fine at 60 degrees, but wondering what to expect if loaded ammo is what I have with me when the summer temps hit in the rodent fields...

load is 20 grain behind a 32 gr V Max in a 20 Practical...

getting great accuracy, and got a couple of pounds given to me in lieu of payment on a debt...

thanks in advance...

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It's not particularly temp-resistant, the reason I load H4198 in my .17 Hornet for hot-weather shooting.

What sort of ballistics are you getting?


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Seafire, I would like to find some of that temperature sensitive Accurate 1680. That propellant is not available anywhere I've checked. Still have 3 lbs., but that is just one more reloading session.


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I just found a bunch in a local store. Dunno where they got it, as 1680 has been scarce both around here and on the Internet for a while now!


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John, I have used 1680 in my hornets for probably twenty years. Used it from below zero to over a hundred and not seen any difference. Now the hornets may not be the best test but that is what I use.


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Used it year round in my Hornet, never saw any differences.


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In the .22 Hornet you're never going to see much difference, even in hot weather, because you can't get enough 1680 in the case to cause any pressure "symptoms." But in the .17 Hornet there's plenty of room still left in the case even with 20-grain bullets in max loads, and yes, you can see signs of high pressure in hot weather.

Seafire doesn't have any idea of what the pressure is in his .204 load, because there's no loading data for 1680 in the .204. He likes to experiment with various powders and often works up to where pressure "appear" safe. It may be a very low-pressure load, but nobody knows.


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1680 seems like an odd choice for the 204, and far from ideal. Seems like it would make more sense to sell it, since it's been so hard to find, and use a more appropriate powder??

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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
I just found a bunch in a local store. Dunno where they got it, as 1680 has been scarce both around here and on the Internet for a while now!


John if there would be anymore 1680 powder available at that store and they ship, please send me a PM. (Unless you purchased it all) LOL Thanks....Chainsaw


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Can't speak to your application, but I've had it get sticky in the .357 Max when it's hot out. That was using book max loads worked up in moderate temps (50-70) that got sticky in 90-100 degree weather.
These loads where being shot in a TC Contender, which would show hard extraction long before a bolt gun.


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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
In the .22 Hornet you're never going to see much difference, even in hot weather, because you can't get enough 1680 in the case to cause any pressure "symptoms." But in the .17 Hornet there's plenty of room still left in the case even with 20-grain bullets in max loads, and yes, you can see signs of high pressure in hot weather.

Seafire doesn't have any idea of what the pressure is in his .204 load, because there's no loading data for 1680 in the .204. He likes to experiment with various powders and often works up to where pressure "appear" safe. It may be a very low-pressure load, but nobody knows.


just for clarification, it is in a 20 Practical, not a 204 Ruger.

I found some data in a cast bullet manual for the 223 and the 221 Fireball that I used as a basis and worked up... also cross referencing some 222 data...utilizing bullets at 40 grains..

took those and worked up some with the 32 V Max and the 24 grain NTX...

tested 20 grains of 1680 with the 32 V Max and 22 grains with the 24 NTX...

these have proven to be safe in the Ruger chambered in the 20 Practical....no pressure signs or issues...

so now need to get over to the range and see how they group on a target when shooting off the bench... they shot good enough off the hood of my vehicle,..

will bring along the chronograph to see what kind of MV they yield...

These are not probably top velocity loads... but I have enough powder for roughly 700 rounds so I thought I'd give her a whirl....

got some BLC2, some TAC, some H4198 and H 322 loads to test them out against...

since there is little to no data for the 20 Practical, this is sorta how you have to figure it out anyway...

my ballistic's lab is in the shop... whistle


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What is the difference between a 20 Practical and a 20 Tactical?


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Originally Posted by Chainsaw
Originally Posted by Mule Deer
I just found a bunch in a local store. Dunno where they got it, as 1680 has been scarce both around here and on the Internet for a while now!


John if there would be anymore 1680 powder available at that store and they ship, please send me a PM. (Unless you purchased it all) LOL Thanks....Chainsaw


different JOHN, here...

but when I was in Portland last week, and stopped in the Cabelas store off of I 5, they had an entire bunch of 1680 in one pounders there...so maybe check out Cabelas, and see if they can deliver to a local store near you...

a Sportman's Warehouse up there in Clackamas also had some on hand, about 20 one pounders of it...

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Originally Posted by HuntnShoot
What is the difference between a 20 Practical and a 20 Tactical?


The Tactical has a different shoulder angle evidently...

the Practical is just a 223, with the neck narrowed to take a 20 caliber bullet....

I volume shoot, so I often look for ways to cut down on the amount of powder needed to get an acceptable load for varmint fields where I can shoot 500 or more rounds in a day.... not heat up the barrel and extend barrel life..

ran one Ruger 223, 15,000 rounds plus with that....traded it in on a Savage BVSS... that rifle and $125 for the new Savage....
the guy that bought it from the gun dealer, ran into him at the range, and he'd put 2,000 more rounds thru it and you could still cover a 3 shot group with a dime at 100 yds...

he was using 25 grains of H 335 and 55 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips.. he got in bulk as he was related to someone at the factory over in Bend...

I tend to get a lot of wear and mileage out of my guns and my cars...it drives some people nuts for some reason...

was raised by parents who grew up during the depression.. and was raised with that mentality...

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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
In the .22 Hornet you're never going to see much difference, even in hot weather, because you can't get enough 1680 in the case to cause any pressure "symptoms." But in the .17 Hornet there's plenty of room still left in the case even with 20-grain bullets in max loads, and yes, you can see signs of high pressure in hot weather.

Seafire doesn't have any idea of what the pressure is in his .204 load, because there's no loading data for 1680 in the .204. He likes to experiment with various powders and often works up to where pressure "appear" safe. It may be a very low-pressure load, but nobody knows.


Your above statement is exactly why I said the hornet might not be a good test. I can even fill y K-hornet and still not see any pressure signs with 1680. We are on the same page.


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Originally Posted by Seafire
Originally Posted by HuntnShoot
What is the difference between a 20 Practical and a 20 Tactical?


The Tactical has a different shoulder angle evidently...

the Practical is just a 223, with the neck narrowed to take a 20 caliber bullet....

I volume shoot, so I often look for ways to cut down on the amount of powder needed to get an acceptable load for varmint fields where I can shoot 500 or more rounds in a day.... not heat up the barrel and extend barrel life..

ran one Ruger 223, 15,000 rounds plus with that....traded it in on a Savage BVSS... that rifle and $125 for the new Savage....
the guy that bought it from the gun dealer, ran into him at the range, and he'd put 2,000 more rounds thru it and you could still cover a 3 shot group with a dime at 100 yds...

he was using 25 grains of H 335 and 55 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips.. he got in bulk as he was related to someone at the factory over in Bend...

I tend to get a lot of wear and mileage out of my guns and my cars...it drives some people nuts for some reason...

was raised by parents who grew up during the depression.. and was raised with that mentality...


I have the same mentality. It doesn't mesh with the current standard. My parents were poor and extremely hard working, even when they were children. My dad had at least 2 jobs and went to school from age 8 through his teens. My mom grew up on a farm as the oldest of 10 children. She was doing adult work at age 6, as in driving a tractor, helping my grandfather with farming and building, etc. A different time.

They raised me to not be afraid to work hard. I eat everything on my plate. I can't make myself waste things. I'd not get rid of a working firearm if it still shot like that! I even appreciate efficient calibers. And picking up bullets at the range to smelt down into more casting fodder. Some call it scrounging. I call it not wasting.


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Scott F,

I figured that's why you posted the .22 Hornet may not be the best example, but since somebody else cited their experience with the Hornet as well decided to clarify.

By the way, I also have not been able to get enough 1680 into the K-Hornet case to cause any problems--or even come close to matching Li'l Gun velocities, which is what I've experienced with 1680 in the standard Hornet.

I also sometimes wonder how much 1680 varies from lot to lot, as I've seen some people claim faster velocities with 1680 than I've ever seen. Right now, however, I have three different lots of 1680, and am about to test them out. Am doing an article on variations in powder lots, as well as how powders have varied over the years. Have some original H4831 and H4198 from decades ago that am going to compare directly to today's production.


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Mule Deer,
Great idea for research and an article! I'm glad that you're the one doing the actual work too, as it seems to me that your experiments are impeccably tailored to be conclusive. A fancy way of saying you do valid, well-thought-out experimentation.


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JB,

I disassembled some ammo a friend picked up at a garage sale for $5.00. It was pre WW 2 production 30/06 ammo with armor piercing bullets on them... he wanted the bullets to load up in a 300 Win Mag....

so I disassembled them and he let me keep the cases and the powder in them...deprimed the old primers and put new production in them...

the powder was IMR 4895 ( DuPont)... the cases were dated from 1936 to 1940.

I did an experiment testing the pre WW 2 powder against new production 4895. Test cartridge was a 22.250 with 55 grain bullets.

Velocity was pretty much the same over the chronograph....

but surprisingly accuracy champ was the pre WW 2 production 4895..

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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
Scott F,

I figured that's why you posted the .22 Hornet may not be the best example, but since somebody else cited their experience with the Hornet as well decided to clarify.

By the way, I also have not been able to get enough 1680 into the K-Hornet case to cause any problems--or even come close to matching Li'l Gun velocities, which is what I've experienced with 1680 in the standard Hornet.

I also sometimes wonder how much 1680 varies from lot to lot, as I've seen some people claim faster velocities with 1680 than I've ever seen. Right now, however, I have three different lots of 1680, and am about to test them out. Am doing an article on variations in powder lots, as well as how powders have varied over the years. Have some original H4831 and H4198 from decades ago that am going to compare directly to today's production.


I am still using the same eight pound jug of 1680 I bought all those years ago so have obviously not seen any variation. I will be real interested in reading your results.


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Originally Posted by Seafire
JB,

I disassembled some ammo a friend picked up at a garage sale for $5.00. It was pre WW 2 production 30/06 ammo with armor piercing bullets on them... he wanted the bullets to load up in a 300 Win Mag....

so I disassembled them and he let me keep the cases and the powder in them...deprimed the old primers and put new production in them...

the powder was IMR 4895 ( DuPont)... the cases were dated from 1936 to 1940.

I did an experiment testing the pre WW 2 powder against new production 4895. Test cartridge was a 22.250 with 55 grain bullets.

Velocity was pretty much the same over the chronograph....

but surprisingly accuracy champ was the pre WW 2 production 4895..

That old powder, if still good, works.

My lot of '60's vintage surplus H-4831 will shoot as well or better than new H-4831. And, when I bought that powder in the '60's, it wasn't new. So, no telling when it was made.

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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
It's not particularly temp-resistant, the reason I load H4198 in my .17 Hornet for hot-weather shooting.

What sort of ballistics are you getting?


got out with the chronograph this afternoon..

20 grains of AA 1680 with a Win Small Rifle primer in Remington Brass, with a 32 grain V Max..

results were:

1. 3666 fps
2. 3694 fps
3. 3679 fps
4. 3672 fps

brass expansion, was minimal.. neck sized it and it rechambered just fine...

maybe someone with Quick Load can do a pressure forecast for us..

outside temp was about 65 degrees and humid, and a thunderstorm was hot on the way... thundering and lighting in the distance... out on Forest Service land on a 4,000 mountain top...

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