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Does anyone have one? Pro's and Con's ??

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are you related to Luke the drifter? I think AH64 has one, but maybe it was an FAL.


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THey do have a certain cool factor to them. I wouldn't mind having one myself.

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Have had a few clones built from parts kits. They are good rifles and can be accurate if set up properly with a good barrel. Biggest drawback was the triggers, most semi auto triggers were rough with lots of creep, PTR may have better triggers now but not sure. They do toss your brass about 30 feet and beat it up a bit but I have reloaded some five or more times with no problems. Some love them and some hate them so I would definitely try one out before buying. There was a member over on militaryfirearm.com that was milling weld on scope rails that are IMHO the only way to go when putting optics on one.

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They are difficult to run if you are accustomed to an AR. Magazine changes are slow, magazine release is in an odd place. Safety selector is weird and you have to lock the bolt back to change magazines. I did not like the left side charging handle or the long stroke to charge the rifle. I did not care for the way they handled or the sights. The magazines are very inexpensive and the guns are easy to clean and maintain. Difficult to scope and horrible triggers.

Shoot one before you buy.

Perry

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I've got one - the PTR-91 Mil model. It's a good blasting rifle, eats anything in the magazine. Compared to a "true" HK, I can't tell the difference, and I haven't seen any parts issues, yet.

The chamber is fluted, your cases will get the HK "wrinkle" from firing.

I have the iron sights, may get a scope mount when I see for the right price.

IMHO, the PTRs have more of a cult following than any hugely clear advantage over other rifles that I see.

Running one is training, I don't have an issue changing between rifles. If you practice handling the rifle, the controls are pretty easy to learn.

It's an HK trigger pack, the trigger is what you should expect for a battle rifle. This wasn't designed to be a match winner.

If you need parts, expect to pay HK prices. Probably the biggest drawback in the ownership.

Magazines are dirt cheap, and quite easy to find.

Last edited by AH64guy; 05/22/15.
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Originally Posted by AH64guy
IMHO, the PTRs have more of a cult following than any hugely clear advantage over other rifles that I see.

Running one is training, I don't have an issue changing between rifles. If you practice handling the rifle, the controls are pretty easy to learn.



+1 to both of those points. They are good solid rifles, but there's no confusing them with a lightweight carbine.

Mine was the PTR 91 GI model, 18" barrel. It shot well (1.5-2 moa) with 165/168gr bullets, but for some reason did not shoot any 150gr bullets well. I welded a rail for scope mounting on mine; you can send it to several places to have that done, or buy the newer PTR model with the rail already installed.

The triggers can be cleaned up to get rid of the creep, but it's hard to lighten them very much.

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Originally Posted by jimmyp
are you related to Luke the drifter? I think AH64 has one, but maybe it was an FAL.


Not related.

Thanks everyone for your knowledge and opinions.

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I had one. It shot 1.5 MOA, was 100% reliable and was built like a tank. The model I owned had a picatinny rail on the receiver. Mounting a scope, you'll need to remove the rear site or get really high rings. Cheek weld is an issue for any scope on the PTR but you can buy a cheap clip on cheek riser that snaps on the stock and works real well. Magazines are incredibly cheap. It feeds steel cased ammo, in fact PTR actually recommends it over surplus.

I sold because it was really heavy and and didn't like the safety. You need giant hands to be able to work the safety without removing your grip from the pistol grip. Also, the fluted chamber and what it did to the brass drove me crazy as a reloader.

I bought an 16" light barrel FNAR as a replacement. It weighed about 2lbs less and was easier to use. I was familiar with all the fire controls from growing up with shotguns. I was looking for something I could use for hunting VS a battle rifle.

Last edited by scottfromdallas; 05/23/15.

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You may want to rethink it. Roller locked guns are junk. That being said...

It's a Clone
Pieces - They Shoot Themselves to Pieces
Boat Anchor Heavy
Broad Side of the Barn Accuracy
Expensive Parts
Brass Destroyer

Just sayin'...

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Originally Posted by KneezeInTheBreeze
You may want to rethink it. Roller locked guns are junk. That being said...

It's a Clone
Pieces - They Shoot Themselves to Pieces
Boat Anchor Heavy
Broad Side of the Barn Accuracy
Expensive Parts
Brass Destroyer

Just sayin'...
Bullchit!

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So the PTR is a semi-auto US made version of the German G3. The G3 is a weird but very successful rifle. They were extremely reliable and reasonably accurate.

The PTR’s that I have shot have all had their chambers fluted extremely shallow, to the point to where I wonder how reliable they’re going to be when you get into inclement environments. The original G3’s (and other military grade weapons with fluted chambers) had very deep flutes. The brass would come out very scorched with deep striations on the brass. The brass looked essentially ruined, but it is still completely reloadable and you generally get about 3-4 loads out of each case before you start having cases crack. The fluting on the PTR’s chamber is so shallow that you can barely feel the indentations.

Look at this brass from a PTR, where the flutes were are almost not noticeable. Barely any sign this was fired out of a roller delayed rifle.


[Linked Image]

Now look at this case from an H&K where the flutes are much more pronounced.

[Linked Image]

The G3 series of rifles weigh about the same or a little less than most other 7.62 NATO rifles of that era. The human engineering side leaves a bit to be desired. The action is very tall and long, making the receivers just plain huge. Because the receivers were so long, barrel lengths were kept down to 18” so the overall length of the weapon was reasonable. Most G3’s (and PTR’s that I’ve shot) were reasonably accurate, certainly accurate enough for most roles you’d find them being employed in the military. Typically 2-2.5 MOA with good ammo. Triggers are horrendous due to the West German’s criteria for drop testing (something goofy like 100’ from a helicopter, or some such nonsense). Triggers are not too tough to tune though, and any gunsmith who understands trigger actions ought to be able to tune them up. Of course you could always just buy a PSG-1 (sniper) trigger unit which will give you about a 3lb crisp trigger, but last I checked, they’re very expensive.

The balance of the rifle is vastly inferior to the FN-FAL, and generally less balanced than the M14. The G3 is my least favorite of the 3 major .308 battle rifles (I don’t generally consider the AR-10 because they’ve only recently hit battlefields in any real numbers…and they’ve had their share of growing pains). But a military grade G3 is a very solid, very reliable piece of equipment. G3’s have a stellar reputation for reliability in the Middle East.

The magazine release is not reachable unless you move your hand from the pistol grip. Later G3’s add the feature of a paddle where an AK’s magazine release was located. This would allow you to hit the mag release like an AK, making magazine changes a little easier. Most G3’s (until they’re well worn in) won’t drop their magazines free, you have to pull them out.

Many like the sights on the G3 and I’ll admit the sight picture is very nice. But they are only adjustable via a special sight adjustment tool, and the 100m “battle sight” is a shallow “v” notch which is somewhat less than precise. Once fully adjusted, the diopter advances from the v notch 100m to an aperture at 200m on up to 400m. The standard “slimline” forend looks really nice, but it leaves the trunion section of the receiver exposed. If you slide your hand back to rest against the magazine well, like many do when shooting AR’s, the receiver will burn your hand once it heat’s up real good. And being a delayed roller locking system, it heats up pretty quick

Accessories are plentiful for the G3 series rifles and they’re very easy to install. THE thing to look for is one of the military Hensoldt ZF scopes with the range compensating dial on up to 7oom. They are compact, and VERY nice scopes with the famous H&K claw mounting system.

These rifles are very easy to maintain due to their semi-modular design. Predictably keeping the chamber cleaned is paramount. Two push pins and the stock comes off. The trigger group then rotates downward, and the bolt carrier unit then can be removed for cleaning; that’s all that is necessary for cleaning…easy peasy.

PTR makes a pretty good clone. They ran into some quality issues early on, but they’ve ironed out those issues. Every one I’ve seen has been made quite well. I still have big reservations about the chamber fluting and I won’t be convinced unless I personally run a couple of thousand rounds through one in bad conditions.




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GunGeek, is yours one of the early PTR models? I read about some fluting differences in the early models. Mine (GI model, new production from 2-3 years ago) left the brass looking almost exactly like your second pic. No concerns about reliability with that one.

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All of the brass out of mine, so far, looks like your second picture.

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Originally Posted by Yondering
GunGeek, is yours one of the early PTR models? I read about some fluting differences in the early models. Mine (GI model, new production from 2-3 years ago) left the brass looking almost exactly like your second pic. No concerns about reliability with that one.
I've never owned one. A very close friend of mine bought one about 6-7 years ago and I have shot it on several occasions. His has no discernible dents on the brass. I have another friend who owns both a PTR semi auto, and a full auto H&K G3, both of which I have shot on several occasions. The H&K G3's brass actually looks considerably worse than the brass in the lower picture. Both of the PTR's that are owned by my friends have extremely shallow fluting. I'm not sure if that's still the case or not.

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Those must be the early models with the different fluting. They were known to have issues with tar sealed ammo blocking up the flutes.

The later models are not like that.

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IIRC the PTR's are rated for commercial 308 and the military barrelled clones were designed to use the thicker walled military brass. Not sure about HK produced model 91's.

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The PTR 91's run fine on both commercial 308 and military 7.62.

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Yeah I don't want to give the wrong impression. I just have my concerns, but the two PTR's that I've put rounds through (quite a few mind you) have yet to fail in any way. So even though the chamber fluting on both of those rifles is super shallow, they both have worked just fine. And we've used a mix of foreign military 7.62 and handloads using commercial .308 brass, no problems with either.

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Originally Posted by KneezeInTheBreeze
... Roller locked guns are junk. That being said...
This is just an ignorant statement.

Roller locking is a strange way to operate a gun for sure. It was the result of Hitler meddling in things of which he had no knowledge. At one point he forbade the further research into gas action auto loading weapons. So the Germans had to figure out another way. And being Germans they not only found a way, but as it turned out, it worked very well. The G3 is one of the most successful military rifles of all time. The MG42 is one of the most successful LMG’s of all time. Very few weapons designers have chosen to copy the delayed roller system and for good reason; it’s goofy. But to say roller locking guns are junk is just ridiculous. I’ve never seen a Sig roller locking rifle that ANYONE would call junk. And I don’t know many who refer to H&K’s wares as junk. I’m not crazy about roller locking myself, but I recognize that it not only works, but it works well. This notion that they shoot themselves to pieces, again, no idea where that’s coming from. The service record of the G3 and the MG42/MG3 are quite impressive. They have served with distinction all over the world. And in countless wars across the globe, they have somehow managed to not “shoot themselves to pieces”.

The G3 series rifles is one of my least favorite of the 7.62 battle rifles, but that’s just MY preference. The FACT is, the G3 (roller locking and all) is a damn good rifle.

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