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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 29,616
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 29,616 |
I almost ordered one to try but figured it would be overload for my memory.
Fixed 6x and dots is the only way to go for us simpletons! +1 If the guys who think lining up a load w/ dots is so complicated would take some milk jugs out and practice they'd find it much simpler than they could imagine sitting in front of a computer screen.
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,319
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,319 |
Maybe someone mentioned this and I missed it, but Leupold can install dots matched to your ballistic specifications. Like say, a 286 grain Nosler started at 2400.
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,047
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,047 |
Mine is a FX-3 6x42 LRD going on a Weatherby MK V Ultra Lightweight 30-06.
Just thinking about one of the High Energy Factory Loads from Federal,Remington,Hornady that bump a 180 gr. up to 2900 + fps.
Sea level here in Alabama, If I could draw the Pallisades unit?
Idaho at what ever the alt. is their.
Molan Labe
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 566
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 566 |
The LR Duplex works well on my 7mm topped with the vx 6 2-12x using a 140 gr NBT @3225 fps. My velocity was an average verified over a chronograph as well as the bullet bc being verified. If a person has an accurate velocity and bc the rest is just math. The figures I give are by the book, I did test at the given ranges and can not dispute the results. It should also be considered that the size of the dots on the LR Duplex are 1 moa in size and at times it is more precise to use tops or bottoms of the dots.
Sighted 2.4" high at 100 yards gives a 265 yd zero.
350 yd -6.4" top of 1st dot is -5.9"
400 -11.9" bottom of 1st dot -10.8"
450. -18.7". top of 2nd dot - 19.35"
500. -27.1" bottom of 2nd dot -26.5"
600. -50.2". top of the bottom post is -46.9"
This works for me.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,571
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,571 |
I love watching the desk dot pilots figure it all out on their computers. I'd really like to see some videos of dots out to 600. I've got several with folks running 300-600 on a BDC turret.... it's fast, accurate, and even a noob can immediately understand it.
I know a couple guys who can make hits with dots (Hondo can put down to 500).... but it's certainly the exception. Outside 300-350ish the wheels seem to fall off the dots. So, for most shots on big game (out to 350-400).... they're alright.
I guess I just don't understand how there's an 'acceptable margin of error' of 3.... 4.... 5" at those ranges. Compound that with 'gap shooting' the dots.... a little wind, and you've got a recipe of a solid 8"-10" "miss". That may work on an elk.... but an 8" miss (any direction) on a deer and you've got a potential rodeo.
I also don't understand how the fixed dots are the titties.... while a 'fixed' Ballistic Turret is "too rigid". If I pick a similar bullet.... my drops are going to match my turret very closely... or I can simply wrap a piece of tape around it and write new yardage numbers that are spot on. Middle in the middle is always better than "hold the third dot just a little low on it".
I also hear the 'dots are faster' argument all the time.... and that may be true.... if you need to take a split-second 457 yard shot at an alarmed animal. Dots, turrets, laser guided Tomahawk.... that's a bad shot man. If it's past 300, and I don't have time to spin a turret.... I don't have time for the shot... I've missed more than enough at that range to know my limitations.
If you run a CDS, leave it spun to 200-250ish.... and hunt it. Everything inside 300 gets shot just like it has for 100 friggin years. Everything over 300 you get a rest and spin the dial. It works well, it allows you to eliminate as much ballistic margin for error as possible, and allows you to put the X where it needs to be...
You better pray to the God of Skinny Punks that this wind doesn't pick up......
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,995
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,995 |
I love watching the desk dot pilots figure it all out on their computers. I'd really like to see some videos of dots out to 600. I've got several with folks running 300-600 on a BDC turret.... it's fast, accurate, and even a noob can immediately understand it.
I know a couple guys who can make hits with dots (Hondo can put down to 500).... but it's certainly the exception. Outside 300-350ish the wheels seem to fall off the dots. So, for most shots on big game (out to 350-400).... they're alright.
I guess I just don't understand how there's an 'acceptable margin of error' of 3.... 4.... 5" at those ranges. Compound that with 'gap shooting' the dots.... a little wind, and you've got a recipe of a solid 8"-10" "miss". That may work on an elk.... but an 8" miss (any direction) on a deer and you've got a potential rodeo.
I also don't understand how the fixed dots are the titties.... while a 'fixed' Ballistic Turret is "too rigid". If I pick a similar bullet.... my drops are going to match my turret very closely... or I can simply wrap a piece of tape around it and write new yardage numbers that are spot on. Middle in the middle is always better than "hold the third dot just a little low on it".
I also hear the 'dots are faster' argument all the time.... and that may be true.... if you need to take a split-second 457 yard shot at an alarmed animal. Dots, turrets, laser guided Tomahawk.... that's a bad shot man. If it's past 300, and I don't have time to spin a turret.... I don't have time for the shot... I've missed more than enough at that range to know my limitations.
If you run a CDS, leave it spun to 200-250ish.... and hunt it. Everything inside 300 gets shot just like it has for 100 friggin years. Everything over 300 you get a rest and spin the dial. It works well, it allows you to eliminate as much ballistic margin for error as possible, and allows you to put the X where it needs to be...
Fully agree with every thing you posted. I’m a turret turner from way back. I learned hold over and under in sniper school as well as turning turrets and I happen to like the precise hold that turrets allow for. If you know your equipment it’s so easy most can do it. Reading the wind is where the men are separated from the boys.
When people face the possibility of freezing or starving there is little chance they are going to listen to unfounded claims of climate doomsday from a bunch of ultra-rich yacht sailing private jet-setting carbon-spewing hypocrite elites
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 270
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 270 |
Don't reticles like the LRD have to calibrated to a load at a specific magnification? Unlike the CDS.
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,671
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,671 |
My Leupold VX-III, 4.5-14x42, CDS has had nothing but problems. I purchased this scope early 2011 for a trip to Africa. I has been mounted on my Rem. 700 SPS, 300WSM. My 180 gr. Accubond load was sent to leupold for the CDS elevation turret as the scope was designed for. It has not held elevation zero more times than I wish to elaborate. It is currently back at Leupold, 2nd time, for warranty work hopefully to correct this problem. I have no problem with Leupold service and turn around, but the scope has not lived up to Leupold legend. Now, having said this, the baggage handlers for Delta airline may well be the culprits in regard to handling. Although, this rifle and another, sporting a Burris Compact, traveled from NW MT to RSA in a Browning gun vault case.Tthis is one of the heavy duty plastic containers with egg crate foam inside. The Burris has retained zero for many years. The Leupold CDS has been knocked out of zero too many times. My .02 cents. Good luck! MTG
Vena dura, ocyus occide, excusas non offer!
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,229
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,229 |
Reading the wind is where the men are separated from the boys. Amen brother. Lots of long range hunter wannabe's either overlook this fact, or won't admit it.
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,927
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,927 |
Only thing that could make CDS worse is a custom dial.
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,229
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,229 |
CDS is so simple a caveman could use it. 
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 33,666
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 33,666 |
Am I the only one still holding over with a basic sim-plex reticle? Now I will not shoot past 400 and have not needed to past 300. A fossil it seems.
Conduct is the best proof of character.
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 9,611
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 9,611 |
Ed, like you I can shoot to almost 400 w/a simple back line hold with 2 of my 3 rifles. Most men really don't understand how far 400yds actually is. powdr
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 8,037
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 8,037 |
If memory serves me well(yea right) my 6x36 with the LR and a 150PT in a 270 to 500yds was money! Past that you got no choice.
Your Every Liberal vote promotes Socialism and is an
attack on the Second Amendment. You will suffer the consequences.
GOA,Idaho2AIAlliance,AmericanFirearmsAssociation,IdahoTrappersAssociation,FoundationForWildlifeManagement ID and MT.
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 29,616
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 29,616 |
Dogshooter you're right for beyond 400.
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Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,393
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,393 |
Reading the wind is where the men are separated from the boys. Amen brother. Lots of long range hunter wannabe's either overlook this fact, or won't admit it. I couldn't agree more! I will only shoot at Prairie dogs at extended ranges and I can shoot them regularly at 400+ yards, but I miss some too, probably 50%. I know an elk or even a deer would be not too hard to hit at 500 yards on a still day. But to me, hunting is not a stunt which a lot of immature hunters are trying to do with their, "I shot my deer at 600 yards, whoopee." What's wrong with hunting deer rather than setting up the shooting bench and shooting deer so you can brag about your shooting skill. So you can read ballistics charts and you can judge range with your range finder and on a still day you can hit your game animal. Shooting game animals is a lot different than hunting.
I prefer classic.
Semper Fi
I used to run with the hare. Now I'm envious of the tortoise and I do my own stunts but rarely intentionally
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,571
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,571 |
Wondering how many guys with their dots have ever actually shot them at all ranges to see what's what? Can you actually make hits with your 432 yard dot on a 12" plate at 450?
I bet 80% have never run them further than their 200 or 300 yard range will allow.... and another 10% hasn't run them further than the end of a keyboard.
Same goes for most guys with a drop chart taped to their stock. I see FAR more theory than reality in this post.... and in the field. I run into guys shooting all manner of rigs at 'long range'... and have yet to see a guy running dots make a cold bore hit at anything over about 350. Truth be told, I very rarely see any random dude make a cold bore shot at 400+..... regardless of gun/glass/caliber.
If you 'start at the start' and 'keep it simple'.... hitting stuff to 500ish is pretty easy. A turret, some tape, and about 20 rounds should Tell you what you need to know. The next 980 rounds will Teach you what you need to know..... after that.... you should be good to go.... regardless of glass choice.... or the opinions of desk jockeys.
You better pray to the God of Skinny Punks that this wind doesn't pick up......
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 43,823
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 43,823 |
I purposely placed my plates at odd ranges(230-509 yards) so that it wouldn't be so 'easy'. Other than offhand or kneeling I rarely shoot under 200 yards.
Shooting a scoped, high powered, center fire hunting rifle at 100 yards is almost silly. Kind of like the dude who has a big shiny pickup and is afraid to get it dirty much less haul anything.
However, shooting past about 420 yards and it becomes quite evident for me that I shouldn't shoot any farther at a big game animal.
For actual hunting dots are fine, for sniper style hunting turrets are obviously better.
I figured out that I much prefer to hunt/stalk than snipe so never really got into turrets. And about half the time it's too windy to be shooting(at an animal) past 400 yards anyway.
That and I don't like/trust fiddling around with scopes. Set it and forget it.
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,395
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,395 |
Reading the wind is where the men are separated from the boys. Amen brother. Lots of long range hunter wannabe's either overlook this fact, or won't admit it. I couldn't agree more! I will only shoot at Prairie dogs at extended ranges and I can shoot them regularly at 400+ yards, but I miss some too, probably 50%. I know an elk or even a deer would be not too hard to hit at 500 yards on a still day. But to me, hunting is not a stunt which a lot of immature hunters are trying to do with their, "I shot my deer at 600 yards, whoopee." What's wrong with hunting deer rather than setting up the shooting bench and shooting deer so you can brag about your shooting skill. So you can read ballistics charts and you can judge range with your range finder and on a still day you can hit your game animal. Shooting game animals is a lot different than hunting. Yes, because sitting in a house overlooking a greenfield and waiting for the buck that you have 732 pictures of to show up, and then killing him with his head in the alfalfa at 121 yards is "hunting".....
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 45,996
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 45,996 |
These conversations never cease to entertain. Lots of guys are all too happy to use superior technology to defeat an animal's senses by taking a 300-yard shot. But if someone stretches it out to 500, they're "not hunting" or "unethical." The funny part is, the distance at which it becomes unethical usually starts at the distance just beyond where the detractor is comfortable shooting.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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