Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game A premium bullet does NOT guarantee premium results.

I found this video, it is very good, and shows what I consider to be VERY poor killing performance from a TTSX

Now before you jump on me, I have no axe to grind against Barnes bullets.


But it is what it is. This is NOT good killing performance.

Skip to 4:45 for the good parts. I have never had any bullet, with similar shot placement, take so long to kill.

Thoughts?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tcs4w6VArIg

The shot did appear to be well placed and for some reason that did take a lot of time for him to go down. Cool that you can see the bullet fly all the way to impact.

The shot placement was fine, if you ask me. Follow the entry to where the exit would be. Right through the vitals.

There didn't seen to be enough internal trauma to cause a quick kill if you ask me.

Interesting video anyways.

Deer was hit in the liver...not always immediate reactions. Always tough to say...Ive seen stranger things with a number of grands of bullets. It just happens on occasion...

. I've seen many deer shot with the good ol Hornady interlock at 600 + yards, drop to their knees like linda lovelace to know that bullet didn't do its job. . Yes, it did kill the buck eventually, but if it would have happened in heavy timber it may have been a lost deer/elk for the shooter/hunter.. I do also agree with blacktailer. The shot placement was not where I like it either. A little Too high, Probably barely clipped the lung.

At what point in the deer's death did the bullet fail?
Read my signature line.

I never said it failed. But that performance sucked.

That is very poor performance from a bullet, as far as trauma, time to kill.

To me, the bullet "acted" like a FMJ.

Skatchewan;
Top of the morning to you sir, hopefully this still warm Sunday has been treating you well.

Based upon shooting and/or being beside the shooter when roughly 2 dozen deer were shot with monometal bullets - TSX,TTSX and GMX - I would agree with gerrygoat that the first shot placement was not great and especially so for a monometal.

The copper bullets are - in our experience anyway - at their best when you break a major bone either with the entrance or exit wound. We try to either break the scapula or ulna always.

Overall, if one always has or can limit your shots to a "picture perfect" broadside shot, then I'd say that there are better bullets for you than an all copper hollow point.

If however, you are occasionally going to need to shoot through some bones or perhaps take a less than optimum shot at a wounded animal and plow through 2' of wet grass to hit the vitals - then they shine and brightly too.

I will say too, that the TSX, TTSX, GMX that we've shot do better work from cartridge/barrel combinations that have faster twists or higher initial velocities or better still both. We've seen larger wound cavities with that combination as a result - by large I mean more cubic centimeters of damaged and displaced tissue.

So for instance our eldest daughter's 6.5 Swede with a 1:7½" twist barrel shooting 130gr TSX at 2700fps consistently showed as much or slightly more damage than my .270 with its unusually slow twist 1:11¼" barrrel shooting 130gr TTSX/GMX at 2950fps.

I am cognizant that's counter intuitive to say the least and has been the source of controversy - nonetheless we saw what we saw.

Lastly, some deer just decide they're not going to die and I have no clue as to why that is. The longest runner for me personally was little 2 point mulie that had no idea the Appy and I were there on his section of the mountain. Despite a solid mid lung hit with a 165gr Hornady BT which started out at 3200fps from my .300 Win Mag, the little fellow made more than 200yds after being hit solidly in both lungs.

Even the horse couldn't believe how much blood that buck lost before dying - but there it is and again we saw what we saw.

Anyway sir, that's only one short, bald guy's thoughts on the matter and worth only what it costs to read for sure and maybe not even that.

Thanks for sharing the video and all the best to you this summer.

Dwayne

A fairly long shot in a lot of wind on one animal is not significant and it would be unwise to draw any conclusions as to the effectiveness of the shooter, the rifle, the caliber, the bullet, or the game animal.
I'm not trying to start anything just pointing out that even a number of stories on the internet doesn't prove anything. As a disclaimer, I've been using Barnes almost exclusively since the X bullets came out about 25 years ago and have never experienced anything that I would call bullet failure. Before that I used Sierras and Speers and can't say I had any failures with those either although I had some misplaced shots in those days which resulted in some rodeos.

The video stated the shot was 397 yards with a 140 gr TTSX from a 280AI. Putting that into RCBS.load's ballistic calculator and assuming a muzzle velocity of 2970 fps puts it at about 2130 fps when it struck. That's faster than the minimum velocity I've seen for Barnes TTSX to open up, but like BC30 says, it was a high lung shot and missed any heavy bones to help it open.

The only thing the word "premium" guarantees is higher cost.

I don't blame bullet failure for what happened in the video. That wasn't good placement IMO. Too high. I couldn't tell the exact angle from the footage. He obviously missed the spine, and didn't slip the bullet into the 'pocket' either. I can't see that a different bullet would have guaranteed a better result A lethal hit, obviously, but not a debilitating one. I've seen that same shot placement go badly, and the animal lost.

I'd have shot while he was closer, after they bumped him, while he was stopped and broadside. Two times. It looks like they were trying to determine whether he was big enough. Really good genes on what looks to be a not-quite-prime deer, given the near pristine bases and shape of his nose. Another year, or two, and he'd have been a giant.

Typical results for a shot behind the offside leg on animals that are angled away. One lung and liver. Not where I would put a bullet on that animal.

I'll take a 28 caliber hole through BOTH lungs over a 28 caliber SPLAT on the shoulder.

As with all shooting of mammals...the only guaranteed instant drop is the CNS.

It looked a little high to me. I think he just clipped the top of the lungs and it took a while to bleed out internally.

Interesting I have no clue on impact speed, 225 OLD barnes X, the ones that failed all the time... at 802 yards twice on a caribou, 338 win mag. Start around 2700 iirc.

Anyway expansion on both.

The interesting part is that folks that don't bowhunt, often don't see a lot of things, and don't realize that animals take time to die. And if not hit really well, they can take a lot longer to die than you think.

There is a REASON its suggested you wait before trailing an animal...

I watched a liver shot buck I shot, and hit to far back, bed up behind me and take almost 15 minutes to die... Brush was such, and he was so close to me when he bedded, I could do nothing at all but wait. Which I wisely did.

I shoot a lot of game CNS. Then get down out of stand with backpack, dog etc... and head on over to verify... It takes a few minutes needless to say. Its fairly common that htough the animal has never moved really, the heart is still in its last beats and pumping blood at that time until the blood is gone.

I'm also of the 2 hole theory. 2 holes better than one. Both in good vitals even better. If you don't want to trail or make yourself feel better that if they fall right over and are 'DRT' then shoot CNS.

Lets just say I've likely shot more deer by far with a gun than a bow, and I've taken over 100 head of big game with a bow when I quit counting in the 90s...

BTW I quit watching the video when you passed a pretty much perfect broadside shot while monkeying with the camera. I'm ok with filming, but when you start passing closer better shots due to camera not being ready, I'm outta here.

Most folks that come up with these thoughts, should probably be shooting ballistic tips and take whatever, if any, failures they might provide.

A sample of one proves nothing, and if you shoot enough of them, every bullet will apparently "fail" at some point.

Liver shots = "no bueno" IME, regardless of bullet make. On my recent trip to Namibia, armed with a 7mm RM and 160 Accubonds, I attempted a shot off the sticks at a 100lb springbok at 200 yards. Elevation was perfect, windage only 2" off/back, quartering towards me slightly. I watched him run, albeit rather gingerly, 400 yards an out of sight. We found him not far from the last place we saw him, but had there been lots of cover it would have taken a while.

If you hunt enough, you'll witness the exact same bullets do unexpected things on the same animals.

I'm not seeing the liver shot. Looks like a high lung shot, just under the spine to me. Not perfect placement, but seems good to me (higher and further back than I would have preferred, but I wouldn't have expected that buck to last that long).



???

David

Shot taken at excessive range, thus velocity too low when bullet finally got to the deer.

The hit was too far back, behind the diaphragm and only clipped the very edge of the far side lung as it ranged slightly forward.

Those guys did a bad thing.

Respect the game. Take sensible shots.

Bullet not to blame......hunter to blame.