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For the 357 Magnum what bullet would you choose for whitetail? Hornady XTP 158-180 gr or a 180 WFNGC Cast Performance ? Does the XTP get any expansion ? Other choices welcome. Haven't decided to reload or stick the factory heavy hitters, Underwood, Buffalo Bore...

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What length barrel does your revolver have? It can make a big difference in the performance. Make sure you use stout loads. If its under 6" forget the 180 XTP you won't get the speed you need for expansion. The 158 XTP if you go jacketed should work with really good placement and warm loads. The 180 WFN can work with good placement it is deadly, but expect them to run as a rule. You will get complete penetration and a blood trail though.

Personally, if you have a larger caliber I would use it. The 357 can work but it isn't a death ray. My experience has been that a medium loaded 41, 44, or 45 is far and away more effective without the annoying blast of the loud/hot 357. I tend to use a 44 loaded with 255 WFN cast bullets at a very modest 1050 or so from a 4" barrel and it just flat out works without all the noise and blast of a hot loaded 357.

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Ive killed tons with the 158 g xtp

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It's a 6" 686 and it would be way cool to slay a whitetail with it this year, that's my goal anyway. I Know it's on the lowend for deer and shot placement is important but I think I can get it with the right load.

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I also have a 4" Redhawk as backup, 335 grain boolits are nasty at 1200+ fps smile

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Good info Mark.






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Originally Posted by panjandrum
Ive killed tons with the 158 g xtp


Reloads or factory ?

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Factory,
i also ran some reloads using 158 g winchester hp's in front of '296 (iirc) went back to those factorys as they performed better

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158 gr SWC with 2400 or 158 gr Gold Dot HP with Win 296 or H110


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Gold Dots, interesting, i know they didn't hold up well at close range out of my Glock 20 10mm.

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I have had pretty good success with a 6" GP-100 shooting 158gr XTPs over a healty charge of 296 and a magnum primer.

Longest shots have been at 50 yards and I have yet to recover a bullet. Judging by the exit holes though, the bullet is expanding well at that distance.

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Originally Posted by ronc
Gold Dots, interesting, i know they didn't hold up well at close range out of my Glock 20 10mm.


I've found Gold Dots to be inconsistent from caliber to caliber as well. I have a recover 158 Gold Dot that shows no expansion at all, the only way to tell it was fired is the rifling.



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Originally Posted by ronc
For the 357 Magnum what bullet would you choose for whitetail? Hornady XTP 158-180 gr or a 180 WFNGC Cast Performance ? Does the XTP get any expansion ? Other choices welcome. Haven't decided to reload or stick the factory heavy hitters, Underwood, Buffalo Bore...



Jacketed I'd go with the 158 and if going to 180's I'd go with the WFNGC.



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Anyone know where I can find some 296, LIL GUN or 110 powder? N105 or N320???

Last edited by ronc; 06/09/15.
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If you're worried about expansion try the Nosler JHP. They use a pure lead core and expand better at lower velocity but I've found them to still be fairly tough.

Disclaimer: I've never shot game with the 357 version but the 44s work well and Nosler claims they are constructed the same. XTPs can be a little hard in my experience as velocity falls off.

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Hunting partner who is a .41 shooter wanted to take a deer with a 6.5" Model 27 that was left to him by another one of our group who passed away two years ago.

Last year he used the gun with 160 XTPs and H110. Had a good clear shot at a 105# doe broadside at 35 yards. Bullet passed right through both lungs. Deer ran under his tree stand and my friend hit it again going away in the front right leg breaking the lower bone, causing the deer to fall. He put another round in between the shoulder blades before it could get up which ended the flight....

Back in 1972 I was on my first deer hunt with friends in Texas and double lunged a 10 point at about 15 yards. Load was a hardcast Lyman/Thompson 357156 155 grain gaschecked bullet at 1200 fps from a 4" Model 19...deer was last seen going over a neighbors fence about 400 yards from me with blood going down its sides...

.357s will kill deer...it is where they fall down that may be a problem.

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I've only killed one deer with the .357 cartridge and while it serves as just a sample of one, I wasn't impressed.

The distance was close - a running shot at 15 yards maybe. The deer showed no reaction to the first shot and ran about 40 yards before it stopped behind some trees, totally obstructed except for the head and upper neck. A 50+ yard headshot is a low percentage opportunity with a S&W Model 13, but I had to try and finish the deer. Shot #2 was a complete miss and the deer didn't even flinch. Shot #3 immediately followed and took him just behind the right eye.

My cylinder was staggered with three different loads: Shot #1 was an old 158 gr Federal Nyclad LSWC-HP, Shot #2 (the miss) was a Winchester 145 gr Silvertip, and Shot #3 (terminal head shot) was a 1st Gen 158 gr Federal Hydra-Shok.

The Nyclad was a complete pass-through with no evidence of significant expansion. It struck a lung and nicked the liver. The Hydra-Shok showed considerable fragmentation and was recovered at the base of the skull. It weighs about 114 gr.

There was not one drop of blood between shot #1 and the final shot.

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[Linked Image]

I enjoy the challenge of taking deer with the guns I routinely carry, so that's the impetus for using a fixed sight service revolver on this occasion. I've taken 6 deer with the old .45 ACP from service style pistols and the performance was MUCH better in comparison. I haven't given up on taking a few more with some other .357 revolvers but I'll be very deliberate in choosing the shots I take based on this one experience.

Last edited by 41magfan; 06/09/15.

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I can definitely appreciate your experience, but I wonder if you feel that things would have been different if the deer had not been running when the first shot was taken.

It seems that it is a little tough to blame that performance on the cartridge when the shot placement could have been better.

Not picking on you, just discussing.

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Originally Posted by ronc
It's a 6" 686 and it would be way cool to slay a whitetail with it this year, that's my goal anyway. I Know it's on the lowend for deer and shot placement is important but I think I can get it with the right load.

[Linked Image]


I also have a 4" Redhawk as backup, 335 grain boolits are nasty at 1200+ fps smile

[Linked Image]


Good info Mark.








That Redhawk looks good. Who did your work? Not trying to sidetrack your thread, just always interested in RedHawks.


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One thought is the .357 mag isn't what it used to be in terms of loadings. In its early years the pressure limit was 46,000 cup, and now it's been throttled back to around 35,000 psi, in deference to small framed revolvers.

If the OP does not handload, then I'd suggest he round up some DoubleTap or Buffalo Bore ammo, to get the hottest stuff available. His 686 is decently strong, and should tolerate them at least occasionally. On small southern deer, I'd stick to reliably expanding hollow points, over hardcast.

If I was determined to take a deer with a .357 Revolver it would be either a six shot N frame or a revo of similar strength. And I'd load it as heavy as I could get away with loading. smirk


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Originally Posted by CrimsonTide
I can definitely appreciate your experience, but I wonder if you feel that things would have been different if the deer had not been running when the first shot was taken.

It seems that it is a little tough to blame that performance on the cartridge when the shot placement could have been better.

Not picking on you, just discussing.

CT


No problem, as I mentioned - it's just a sample of one.

I think my next attempt with the .357 will involve some stoutly loaded 158 gr loads from one of the boutique makers like Buffalo Bore or Underwood.

Most standard 158 gr loads usually chrono at about 1200 fps so an extra 200 to 300 fps should be something of a game changer.




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Originally Posted by lastround
Originally Posted by ronc
It's a 6" 686 and it would be way cool to slay a whitetail with it this year, that's my goal anyway. I Know it's on the lowend for deer and shot placement is important but I think I can get it with the right load.

[Linked Image]


I also have a 4" Redhawk as backup, 335 grain boolits are nasty at 1200+ fps smile

[Linked Image]


Good info Mark.








That Redhawk looks good. Who did your work? Not trying to sidetrack your thread, just always interested in RedHawks.


Thanks, that would be David Clements, he does excellent work.

Last edited by ronc; 06/09/15.
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I have only shot one deer with my .357. I didn't have magnum powder and the load I used was probably too slow. The bulley hit a rib on one side and angled back through the paunch and ut just ahead of the read hind quarter. Whatever you use make sure it's a fast load. If you can put one through the front shoulder going in at a proper angle, I have found that to be a good shot placement with my .44 mag.


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I'm thinking a 180 cast with a healthy dose of 296 clocking in around 1400-1450 fps would pass through a deer like hot air. Now if I could just find some dang powder...

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I second the vote for the Nosler 158's for deer. In a few cals, I've seen them open readily on broadside deer, and from a lever gun, pass through 16" or so of deer and a few inches of frozen ground, so they hold together well. I think the Nosler handgun bullets have been something of a sleeper in the hunting community, and needlessly so. They work very well in my experience.


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I've seen one whitetail doe shot with a 158gr XTP. It was a starting load, but out of a rifle. It was a head on shot at 30yds. Deer didn't show a lot of reaction at the shot and the blood trail was sparse for about 20', then was very easy to follow. The shot centered the sternum and was found while skinning out the hind quarter. Deer went about 30yds with a big hole in the heart.

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Years ago a buddy of mine used nothing but 180 gr. XTP's and a 6" Python to take many deer. Don't recall what powder he was using but it was a fairly hot load. Never lost a deer with that setup but they were all done at bowhunting range. Come gun season he hunted the same spots he bowhunted from earlier that fall and he was very picky about his shots, which is why no deer that he ever hit with that gun ever went very far. Never dropped one on the spot but they never went much past 100 yds. or so and usually left a decent blood trail. That's what convinced me that a 357 handgun can take deer easily as long as you don't stretch the shot distance too far and can put the bullet where it needs to go.

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Ran 158 RP JSP in a Marlin for DRT deer. Lil Gun = 2,000 MV

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I have shot 3 deer with the .357 Magnum; 1 with a 4" S&W 19 and 1 with a 5" S&W 27, and 1 with a 4" S&W 66. All were shot with some ancient Super-Vel 158 grain JHPs. All were shot at short range, less than 50'. All were shot through the lungs. All died promptly, none going more than 50' from the point of bullet impact. All were whitetails weighing under 150 lbs.

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Shot a nice buck in FL with my 6" 686 at 30 yards with 158 grain Hydroshock. The bullet exited both shoulders and the buck ran about 40 yards. Not much blood trail but obviously worked. It wasn't ideal but under the circumstances, it was handled the job.


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After a few adjustments shot a decent group at 25 yards off hand, it's a nice shooter.

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Ronc; is that the cast 180 with 296 you were thinking of? That's a real nice 25 yd. group. Punch a whitetail through the lungs with that at 25 yds. and you've got venison. I was thinking of trying that with my 4 & 5/8" Blackhawk at 25 yds. or less. Starting to experiment with some cast 180 gr. gas checked WFN's. Haven't decided what powder to try first.

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Originally Posted by 22250rem
Ronc; is that the cast 180 with 296 you were thinking of? That's a real nice 25 yd. group. Punch a whitetail through the lungs with that at 25 yds. and you've got venison. I was thinking of trying that with my 4 & 5/8" Blackhawk at 25 yds. or less. Starting to experiment with some cast 180 gr. gas checked WFN's. Haven't decided what powder to try first.


No, it's factory PPU 158gr8 JHP, clocking in around 1340 fps. I have some Cast Performance 180s WFNGC on the way and will work up some loads, accuracy should be better.

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Those are the same 180's I have; I was wondering about using H-110 with them 'cause I've already got plenty of it here. It's tough to get load data for that.

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I haven't shot anything besides badger and porcupines with them yet, but my 586 and Marlin 1894c both love the 180 gr rem sjhp and the Cast Performance 180s. I load 13 gr and 13.5 grains of H110 behind them respectively.


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Originally Posted by BillyGoatGruff
I haven't shot anything besides badger and porcupines with them yet, but my 586 and Marlin 1894c both love the 180 gr rem sjhp and the Cast Performance 180s. I load 13 gr and 13.5 grains of H110 behind them respectively.


Do you know the velocity on the 686 load ? Any signs of pressure ?

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I believe over 1000 fps but under 1100 out of my 4" barrel. I'll have to check my records later for sure. No pressure at all. For the Sjhp rem bullets I trimmed the cases back a little short of book so they'd cycle through the marlin. But with the cast performances it's all book. Gentle recoil, less muzzle blast, penetrates like a mofo and accurate to boot. I'm a big big fan. But not out of a jframe. That was less than fun. grin


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What y'all think about these loads out of a Smith 686 or are these RUGER loads only ?

10" test barrel.

H110 powder 125gr/bullet - 21.0grs - 1881 vel - 38,400 cup
H110 " 158gr/bullet - 15.0grs - 1418 vel - 28,600 cup
H110 " 180gr/bullet - 13.0grs - 1352 vel - 36,800 cup


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With the .357 it is all about penetration. You will NOT be impressed with the knock-down or "power" of this round, but they will eventually bleed out if hit in the right spot.

Personally, I have found the .32-20 (out of a revolver) to be just as effective as the .357 on deer size game....and neither is anything to brag about.

With this in mind, I would choose a hard-cast bullet of at least 165 grains (180 is very good) over any type of jacketed expanding bullet. The .357 just doesn't have enough velocity to be reliable with any expanding bullet and more weight generally means better penetration with any type of solid (hard-cast) bullet design.



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