Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Gunsmithing 2 plus one groups help

I took my 25-06 remington 700 adl out to shoot it and it is doing a 2 plus one pattern. The first two are real good in my opinion then the 3rd one opens up the group. I had it at the gunsmiths who said that I need to float the barrel more. He then added that if that didn't work I should bring it back and he would bed the action and two-three inches of barrel.

http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/uu304/drew_082/shooting/044.jpg

here is a link to my photobucket with the pictures of the groups. What do you guys think? This is shot with handloads that are neck sized. The powder charge is from 53 to 55 grains of imr 4831. Cases are remington. Bullets are 100 grain solid bases which are sorta ballistic tips with no plastic tip. Cases are neck sized only and primers are cci mag. Velocity is between 3250 and 3350. I realize that the first two are more than good enough for chucks and deer but I want the bragging rights that come with a .6 inch gun.

I'd adjust powder charge slightly in either direction as well....owned a few rifles with such malady and it was often cured with slight charge adjustments and/or seating depth changes. Montana 338 win mag most notably.

That said....barrel heating is never your friend.

If that one shot by the 2 isn't a part of the group and since it appears your shooting 3 shot groups I am assuming it isn;t, then your groups are an inch or less, What in the world do you expect from a hunting rifle?? Very few sporting rifles will shoot that good, and very few people can shoot that good.

I am shooting 3 shot groups. Groups are over an inch.

Very few people can shoot that good? Huh? I must hang around an above average group of folks then.

is the photo upside down?

start shooting FIVE shot groups!
clean the gun between the 5 shots and each time consistently run a damp patch down the bore- not slopping wet, damp.
leaning into a heavy recoil or pulling back will give you handling spread, i.e. up down. The rear rest (you're using a hard rear rest, yes?) hitting the rear sling stud will make groups spead too.
Same goes for the front rest.
conditions, you are using wind flags..right? Will spread the bullets left or right out of the group.

and before you bother with any of this you should glass/pillar bed, float the barrel or all of this has been an exercise in futility.

I really don't understand how free-floating the barrel MORE can help to me free-floated is free-floated, but hopefully it will work..Sounds like to me he's on the right track though...something is touching..somewhere..is it bedded?

the gun is not bedded. Is that a good option for a medium weight barrel?

I think the advice is to check for contact when the barrel is hot. Try the five shot groups or even ten shot or a composite of all groups. Three shot groups can be misleading.

Looks like bedding or something is loose. Better sand bags and rest might fix it too. Also could be inconsistent firing pin strike or sear contact.

How is the bolt lug contact, is there enough wear to see it clearly?

The barrel "wiggles" when the rifle is fired, vaguely like a bell vibrates when rung. It is possible for a barrel to contact the forend if there is little clearance between the barrel and the stock. I can't tell you how much clearance is enough, but the traditional dollar bill thickness may not be enough particularly with skinny barrels.

Statistically a three shot group tells very little, I prefer at least an 8 shot group. In simulations I've done, fewer than that and you can see all sorts of patterns that aren't really there due to random chance. You can add small groups to make a big group if, and only if, the groups were shot under almost exactly the same conditions.

I'd go to full length sizing the cases. I've seldom seen an advantage in neck sizing cases, and the neck sized cases could be causing the fliers. Fl size the brass, trim to the same length, make up a sizing dummy to find out where the bullet is kissing the lands, and provided the bullet seated to kiss will feed from the mag, work up to max charge. I would also go to a std primer, I like fed 210's. I've yet to see an advantage to a large rifle magnum primers until I'm setting off 80 or more grains of powder. Std primers set of up to 60+ gr's just fine, and typically with a tad better accuracy.

Don't know if you'll get .6 groups, but you shouldn't have much trouble getting the gun to print 3 into a 3/4" group.

Missed it that it was a stock rifle. Definitely bed it, adjust trigger etc. But tight two shot groups are where it's at for a hunting rifle.