Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns Details IN Bullet Selection Make All The Difference

Often there are discussions on what bullet to use hard cast or jacketed. Many people recommend hollow points without regard to which one. Many will recommend hard cast without giving details as to which one. The water gets farther muddied when the words "Keith' or "LBT" is introduced into the discussion. Why you ask? The answer is quite simple every semi wadcutter that I am aware of claim to be a "Keith" yet the bullet is not as Elmer designed it. Many claim to make "LBT" like bullets, but do they? The me plats and nose profiles differ greatly from the "keith" and true "LBT". What difference does this make you ask? Sometimes all the difference between success and failure when trying to take game. The difference in penetration and wound channel size can be dramatic. There are differences in the type and hardnesses of different makes of hard cast bullet that can drastically effect how they perform.

Jacketed flat point bullet and even hollow points suffer from the same problems. Many times the hollow points do not open, but the shooter doesn't know this because the bullet was not recovered. The Belt Mountain Punch bullet is technically a hollow point, that is designed for maximum penetration not expansion.

Here is an XTP recovered by Greg Riechter the only one that he has recovered a 400 grain shot from a 475L and recovered from a mule deer, I believe if memory serves




Another example is the Winchester 240 grain jacketed flat point white box. This bullet is rather soft and expands widely thus limiting penetration. Other the other hand the Remington 240 gain jacketed flat point is harder and expands less and penetrates more. The 240 grain jacketed flat point in the Fiochi load is hard and seldom expands. This load is also about 1180 FPS out of my 6 1/2" M-29 revolvers, nothing more than a high end 44 Special

Also the Sierra 240 grain jacketed hollow cavity is made with a 1 1/2% antimony core with a relatively heavy jacket to limit expansion and increase penetration. The Remington 240 Semi Jacket Hollow Point has a core of very soft lead with a very thin scalloped jacket that will open extremely wide and limit penetration to about the same as standard ball ammo in a 45 ACP or a bit less in my experience. This is the bullet that I use as a self defense load in the 44 mag.

I had a terrible experience with a 430 grain hard cast in the 500L at 1350 FPS. The bullet gave terrible straight line penetration turned and would not reach the vitals. It took 7 shots to finally get the animal on the ground to finnish of. The problem as farther testing revealed was the nose shape/or profile if you will. The bullet claimed to be "LBT like" but did not adhere to the nose length and radius profile of the "true LBT" from Veral Smith (which work perfectly). This cause the bullet to tumble quickly and all bets are then off on terminal performance. This was my first experience with the 500L and I almost gave up on the cartridge, but my inquisitive mind wanted to know "WHY" it failed so miserably and once discovered and the proper bullet was used the 500L is an awesome cartridge for hunting as it simply hammers game with even more authority than the 475L as long as the correct bullet is chosen

I do not like to recommend bullets that I have not personally used/tested or seen used/tested in order to know how well they will or will not work for the task at hand.


I highly recommend "Whitworth's book Big-Bore Revolvers as he covers this subject very well



Various recovered handgun bullets

I think the problem is,you and Whitworth are both Hardcast lunies not giving jacketed in pistols a fair shake.....Maybe it is lack of experience with them "on game" not testing or the lack of enough animals shot with both to make an honest comparison.

I don't claim to have that either but someone like JJ Hack does..Having shot hundreds with cast and jacketed,he has his opinion based on his kills which is.....



This isn't a slam nor am I discarding either of your experiences with cast or jacketed,I'm simply stating there are other opinions that differ from your or Whit's,some with less experience and others with way more as quoted above.

Have a nice day John as I can't play the net game for very long,got firewood to go get when the boy gets out of bed and fed...

Jayco

Again you have missed the mark, I have never stated anywhere that jacket backs don't and can't work. It is when someone states that they do not work as well and that is incorrect if attention to details are observed. I have been taking game with a handgun since the late 60's and have taken and or seen taken many hundreds of game with a handgun.

Many years I would not even consider a hard cast bullet it was not until 1987 that I darted using hard cast bullets on a regular basis as I had bad experience with them back in the late 70s.

Those that do not pay attention to the details and or of closed minds will never ever understand


My OP is not slanted ion either directions but that is the way that you take it. I still shoot a lot of jacketed bullets

JJ is not the only one that has killed or seen killed hundreds of game animals and if his experience differs from others that is OK but in no way does that make it the only way

As I said I have been taking game with a revolver for over 40 years

Here is a recovered 300 grain XTP






Now was this the standard XTP or the mag version?

Wow, Jayco, you've completely missed the mark. I have come to my opinion about jacketed expanding bullets by actually using them extensively. Do you hunt with a revolver or have you jumped to your conclusions through conjecture?

A few recovered 38 bullets

It's hard to tell on an Android device,but from what I see,I would say the regular XTP as the XTP Mag,had no lead showing atleast in .454 Hornady ammo.I never reloaded the XTP Mag but shot alot of factory rounds.I never wanted to go hotter than 1550 fps in my revolver like the FA boys loading the 300 XTP to 1900 fps..

I did reload the 300 XTP regular though and liked it's performance way better at my velocity.....

If you look,the ammo in the belt on the left is the 300 grain regular XTP and the regular brass on the right is loaded with the 300 grain Unicore,also an excellent bullet.

This picture is the best I can do with my android,mobile photo bucket isn't copying right now.



Jayco

Good topic/thread and photos.

After seening how well the 180gr Gold Dot from my 10mm at 1375fps worked on a fairly good sized hog this past March I have confidence enough to try one on a black bear.

Have you or anyone else here tested these on any big game?

I am just about done loading up a large number of 10mm handloads with Gold Dots, 180 Hydra Shocks and some brass plated 180gr Hollow points that look a LOT like a Remington Golden Sabre. I bought the GOlden Sabre look alikes as practice or range slugs but might try some out in some expansion and peetration tests.

I am not sure that a hard cast bullet with a good, wide meplat is going to feed reliably in my RIA 1911. Might give them a try, though.

I have never never chrono'ed a 300 grain in a Freedom that was over 1700 FPS . How did any one ever get them to 1900 FPS. The 260's yes but not a 300


Details do indeed make all the difference

Mark I have not tested any bullets in 10mm and simply do not know. With that being said you took a hog with that bullet and got excellent results.


I know from my testing that the 230 Gold Dot in the 45ACP +P load expands consistently to >8 and over and reasonably good penetration, but the 158 grain Gold Dot from the 357 mag failed to open at all. This test was into thoroughly soaked news print with 4 layers of denim on top

Trying to get pictures posted with the new photobucket on an Android could drive a man to the luny bin.

jwp-That wasn't me that loaded that hot,it was someone else...FA revolvers are as strong as one can be.They tested them once and tried to blow one up and finally succeeded to not blow it up,but made it unfunctionable.

Yes Whit,I hunt occasionally with a revolver and you would know that if you read my post.Not like you guys do because I prefer rifles and the range they bring over a revolver,but I do hunt and have hunted game with them,especially Deer and Bears and less for Elk but once in a while if things are looking good.



Jayco

I know that the FA's are strong enough but I question how one could get enough powder in the case to get 1900 FPS with a 300 grain jacketed bullet. I know a 7 1/2" barrel will not do it in my experience

I don't want to post who wrote and did that but I sure don't doubt it knowing who it was.

Jayco

I chrono'd some .454 Buffalo Bore 300gr jacketed bullets out of a 7.5" Super Redhawk. The indicated velocity averaged 1620fps, and the beating my hands took was as memorable as the velocity

WFN 45 Colt compared to a 500 the meplat dictates wound channel size in revolver rounds