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Joined: Jun 2001
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 32,026 |
Waugh! Waugh! Waugh!
According to the news, scientists have determined that global warming (what happened to the PC "climate change"?) is resulting in less snowfall in SE Alaska and parts of Canada. The diminished winter insulating snow results in freezing the roots of Yellow Cedar. There's a half million acres of dead or dying cedar in a wilderness area, and more in Canada.
What a waste - YC is good stuff! But no logging in wilderness areas.
Adapt or die! Natural succession of flora and fauna more suitable to the changing conditions will insure the world doesn't end.
Just hate to see all that rare, excellent lumber go to waste, but I guess bugs and fungi have to live too. Stupid is as stupid does.
The only true cost of having a dog is its death.
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Joined: Feb 2002
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There is plenty of dead and dying Yellow Cedar outside the Wilderness areas.
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Joined: May 2010
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YC decline in SE Alaska has been noted for years; well before the current hysteria over "global warming, climate change" became the excuse for practically everything and the justification to attack something you didn't like.
A little research into a subject often termed "range of historical variation" will quickly show that changes in climate and attendant changes in vegetation patterns are to be expected; independent of any supposed influence mankind has on the climate.
Years ago I read of harvesting long dead YC because the stems are very resistant to decay. (I no longer have my file cabinets of reference material by tree species but at one time had considerable literature on YC.)
"It is wise, though, to remember above all else: rifle, caliber, scope, and even bullets notwithstanding, the most important feature of successful big game hunting is to put that bullet in the correct place, the first time!" John Jobson
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Joined: Jul 2001
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HELP!!! HELP!!! The sky is falling, the sky is falling!!
Bear in You Know Where
"Unless you're the lead dog, the scenery never changes."
Amazingly, I've lived long enough to see a President who is worse than Carter.
And finally,
Gun control means using two hands.
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sounds like someone better harvest it then, or it could be a perfect place for a big forest fire (im not familiar with how much rain that area gets but i suppose if its a lot that fires would be a non issue)
I kill chit. "The Heathens nest"
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Joined: Feb 2002
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Lets see ... the last forest fire was in 1954 IIRC ....
I can't remember doing much with Yellow Cedar except firewood and selling green round logs to the Japanese (I think it is sacred wood to them) ....
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 8,704
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We had a fire of a few thousand acres around Hoonah a few years ago, maybe around 2005, but it didn't amount to much. Generally speaking, a five-acre fire is "huge" in this part of the world.
Yellow cedar has some good uses, and I'm fairly sure they will continue to reproduce for centuries. Based on evidence, this going up and down has been going on for a very long time...well, at least as long as this era has been here. Which, relative to many parts of the world, isn't very long.
Dennis
"The more you run over a dead cat, the flatter it gets."
"If you're asking me something technical, you may be looking for My Other Brother Darrell."
"It ain't foot-pounds that kills stuff -- it's broken body parts."
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what contains the fires up there (im a midwestern guy so bear with me) is it due to all the swamps? high water table etc?
I kill chit. "The Heathens nest"
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Joined: Aug 2009
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How are the Polar Bears doing? Are they all hanging out on the beaches now due to Global Warming with a Coke and a smile. I have a hard time buying into the whole Global Warming concept as something new and man made.
Keep your powder dry and stay frosty my friends.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
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what contains the fires up there (im a midwestern guy so bear with me) is it due to all the swamps? high water table etc? Ever hear the term "Temperate Rain Forest?" 
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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what contains the fires up there (im a midwestern guy so bear with me) is it due to all the swamps? high water table etc? Basically, around here, there aren't really any fires. We get some little ones of an acre or two, but they will generally go out with or without us. (I'm talking about in the woods, not in the towns. The towns burn something regularly, but that's a different deal.) Forest fires, per say, simply don't happen here. Dennis
"The more you run over a dead cat, the flatter it gets."
"If you're asking me something technical, you may be looking for My Other Brother Darrell."
"It ain't foot-pounds that kills stuff -- it's broken body parts."
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ahh i suppose the temperate rainforest thing makes sense, I guess never having been to alaska i was expecting stands of spruce/pine much like in the lower, that can be a tinder box at times.
I kill chit. "The Heathens nest"
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Joined: Dec 2003
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2003
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Other parts of AK can be like that.
If you take the time it takes, it takes less time.
--Pat Parelli
American by birth; Alaskan by choice.
--ironbender
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I used to agree with you and still do in a sense. While our global temperatures have varied in a cyclic way throughout time, there is no denying the effect man has on our world. With the aid of scientific research, we now can track the amount of atmoshperic carbon throughout our earth's history. The way we do this is with ice cores from deep below the artic crust. What we have found is that CO2 levels have been increasing dramatically ever since the bronze age. This may not sound like much of a big deal, cause after all, what's a little extra CO2 right? Shouldn't that make the trees grow better??? Anyways, this increase in CO2, along with other greenhouse gasses are very responsible for holding heat in our atmosphere. The way it works is very simple, but I never would have thought about this on my own. What happens is, as solar rays from the sun enters out atmosphere, they come in an assortment of short and longwave radiation, but mostly short wave. Anyway, what happens next is very similar to you leaving your car parked outside on a warm, sunny day. As the rays come in through your windows, as short wave radiation, they are reflected from your car's interior surfaces. The reflection of light from a surface is known as "albido". So, as the short waves reflect from your car's interior surfaces, the short wavelenggths are converted in to longwave radiation. Interestingly enough, longwave radiation cannot penetrate through your windows, thereby trapping the energy in your car, raising the temperature dramatically. The same thing happens with greenhouse gasses.
Now, before you all start calling me a pinko, tree hugging, commie, know that I don't buy into all the doom and gloom that is forced down our throats. I think that yes, the earth will continue to get warmer, naturally or not, and we all will be forced to cope with these changes. However, I see alot of possible benefits. One benefit with higher temps will be lengthened growing seasons and the incorporation of lands that were once
non-arable into arable land use types. This will hopefully allow us to produce more of the food and resources we need to hopefully support our out of control population. Just a hypo. Hope you guys can take this for what it's worth.
Jeff
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As far as fires and wilderness area go, they can be a huge fire problem, because the typical USDA approach to wilderness areas is hands off. This often results in a huge build up of flammable fuels because land management in wilderness areas is so extensive (light, not there, not intensive) that fire is not used to remove these fuels. Meanwhile, fires that are not set by humans are seen as a bad thing and destroyed. So, what we have is a huge risk for fire in a lot of our wilderness areas due to the disruptance of a natural fire regime.
Having said all this, I am unfamiliar with Alaska and it's wilderness areas and natural disturbance cycles, so I have no idea what will be the outcome. Only time will tell.
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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I was wondering if you were taking an "Environmental science" class or something. So, I looked at your profile.
I'm going to go buy a lottery ticket now.
If you take the time it takes, it takes less time.
--Pat Parelli
American by birth; Alaskan by choice.
--ironbender
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Deductive reasoning and common sense won't win you the lottery. 
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I used to agree with you and still do in a sense. While our global temperatures have varied in a cyclic way throughout time, there is no denying the effect man has on our world. With the aid of scientific research, we now can track the amount of atmoshperic carbon throughout our earth's history. The way we do this is with ice cores from deep below the artic crust. What we have found is that CO2 levels have been increasing dramatically ever since the bronze age. This may not sound like much of a big deal, cause after all, what's a little extra CO2 right? Shouldn't that make the trees grow better??? Anyways, this increase in CO2, along with other greenhouse gasses are very responsible for holding heat in our atmosphere. The way it works is very simple, but I never would have thought about this on my own. What happens is, as solar rays from the sun enters out atmosphere, they come in an assortment of short and longwave radiation, but mostly short wave. Anyway, what happens next is very similar to you leaving your car parked outside on a warm, sunny day. As the rays come in through your windows, as short wave radiation, they are reflected from your car's interior surfaces. The reflection of light from a surface is known as "albido". So, as the short waves reflect from your car's interior surfaces, the short wavelenggths are converted in to longwave radiation. Interestingly enough, longwave radiation cannot penetrate through your windows, thereby trapping the energy in your car, raising the temperature dramatically. The same thing happens with greenhouse gasses.
Now, before you all start calling me a pinko, tree hugging, commie, know that I don't buy into all the doom and gloom that is forced down our throats. I think that yes, the earth will continue to get warmer, naturally or not, and we all will be forced to cope with these changes. However, I see alot of possible benefits. One benefit with higher temps will be lengthened growing seasons and the incorporation of lands that were once
non-arable into arable land use types. This will hopefully allow us to produce more of the food and resources we need to hopefully support our out of control population. Just a hypo. Hope you guys can take this for what it's worth.
Jeff Jeff, I would suggest that you understand and remember several things when dealing with this question. -Don't confuse cause and effect with correlation. -Complex questions rarely have simple answers. -Most people, especially college teachers, have an agenda that they frequently champion without regard to the whole truth. -Just because it seems to make sense does not mean it is correct. Enjoy being a student and learn as much as you can from as many sources of information as you can. One source of information rarely if ever has all the correct answers.
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 8,115
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A number of years ago I was down on POW reconning a highway project between Klawock and Hollis. The highway maintenance crew had just "hydro-axed" (mechanically cleared) brush and trees in the ROW that could be reached from the road. That freshly cut cedar smelled awefully good. I still like to take a sprig of fresh needles and roll them in my fingers and take a nice long whiff . . . .
If only I could get a car freshener with cedar scent instead of pine. I smell a business opportunity here!
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What Notropis said... If you had been in class 50 years ago, you might have all of the facts on "the coming of the new Ice Age." Global cooling was the rage... 
"You've been here longer than the State of Alaska is old!"
*** my Grandaughters
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