Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Why not a 7.62 by 57?

I have always liked the x57s, have had good experiences with the 7, .257, and 8.
All three are massively underrated in my view.
I guess I just have to ask: Why the heck, when Big Army was making up the 30-03 nee 30-06, trying to rip off the Mauser 98, didn't a 30x57 come out of the dust?
And along that line, why has there never, ever been a 308x57? Sure, there are the Argentines, and the Boer War cartridges, but I woulda thought at some point, some army somewhere would have gone for a 30 on the real 57.

It was an American thing...bigger is better.
I had always been told it had to do the improving the range of the .30-40,so longer it was...the .30-03,.30-06 and of course the .308 came along.


I'd hunt anywhere with 7X57,8mm,6.5 or 9.....

Forgot the 6X57. Its pretty good too.

Cause bigga is betta.Ask the Ladies!!!!

Completely needless.

Load the .30-06 with a full-case (90�100% fill) with the optimum powder, for .300 Savage, .30-30 Winchester, or whatever "in-between" or lighter level of pressures and velocities bongs your gong.

One of the ammo companies used to sell ammo that they called ".30-30-06." Sadly, shooters didn't realize how good that kind of cartridge is. (Maybe the label's designation confused too many shooters and gun-store clerks.)

There's nothing about any type of rifle that requires that its ammo always be loaded to 60,000 lb/sq in. and maximum velocities.

Just don't assume that reduced-pressure loads need lighter charges of the same powders that you need for maximum-pressure, maximum-velocity loads. Base your loads, as the SAAMI factories do, on the desired maximum-pressure level.

The excellent interior-ballistics software QuickLOAD (www.neconos.com) is a superb way to start exploring these possibilities. Highly recommended. Highly edifying.

I may, just for kicks, just for this thread, run this hypothetical through QuickLOAD to see what the optimum powders and charges may be to load the '06 to make it effectively a .30-30. Right now, I'm just too "tard." Check back here tomorrow or later.

The Speer Number 14 Manual has a lab note on the 150 grain page for the .30-06. It calls the reader's attention to the starting load for H4895 being only slightly faster than the same bullet weight in the .30-30. I have a great amount of respect for the capabilities of the .30-06, but like the .270, it is a cartridge with the sex appeal of a long bed 2 wheel drive pickup.

Dave
I built a 7x57 necked up to 308 once. Came right in between the 308 and 30-06. We necked up 7x57 brass. It worked fine, but I dont think its necessary as the other two are readily available.....BUT....It was waaayyyy cccooooolllll !
Charlie

Charlie,
Nice to see you posting!

Thanks !
Charlie

Well, I was just WONDERING. And Ken, how many unneeded cartridges DO we have, anyway?
What the heck, if I ever build one, it'll be a 308x57 Improved!

Germans (DWM) used to neck every case up and down mercilessly ... so there's a 22cal (late comer), 6mm, 6.5mm, 7mm, 8mm, 9mm, 9.5 and a 10.75 on the case. At the time, European military were primarily interested in 6.5mm (doesnt require this much case capacity), 7mm and 8mm, with the Brits having that crazy 0.311" sizing. So 0.308" wasn't really in the European thiking of the time. As a wildcat now? Sure ... why not ... no great gains but the intermediate length case is a compromise, held back in a short action due to seating length, in a long action may as well go 30/06.
Cheers...
Con

There is no magic in either the .308 diameter for bullets, or the rimless 57mm cartridge. Or, in other words, the 7.62X57 would offer little or nothing over the original military cartridges in practical utility. And the fixation on .308 bullets always was primarily an American thing.

When the 1903 Springfield was designed it was intended to shoot a 220 gr bullet that benefited from the additional length and capacity of the 30-03 case. Keeping that cartridge with only a minor alteration was, again, a matter of practicality, when the switch was made to a lighter bullet. This allowed existing 30-03 rifles to be easily altered to utilize the 30-06 cartridge...

When the 7.62X51 cartridge was developed, it did everything that the 57mm case could, albeit at higher pressure levels. Rifle design and metallurgy had advanced in the 70 some odd years since the advent of the Mauser case, and the higher pressures were no nuisance...

Don't forget the 7.65X53 Mauser (used by Argentina and Belgium) - fully the equivalent of a 308X57 if loaded to the same pressures. Also the 7.5X55 Schmidt Ruben is also in the same category. Unfortunately both are loaded to about 45,000 psi due to older military actions.

The ole 7.62X63 can't be beat.

If you were thinkin' about a .29x57mm I'd be way impressed.

Muledeer knows a little about that one, or something similar.

.308 vs .321 You say tomato I say....... It's all the same .

Ah yes, the 7062X63 (aka 30-06) is a real gem; if only the case were a little shorter, like maybe, 51mm?

Being that in a few load manuals the 308 runs right with and a little better than the grand ol '06 with 150 gr and lighter bullets I don't see much room for a .308 cal based on the 7x57 case. Not saying it wouldn't make a good cartridge because both the 308 and the 30-'06 are all most anyone would need for most hunting and it would without a doubt duplicate both of those. The 7x57 cartridge design lends itself to smooth feeding and flawless function so anything based on it's original design should work well. Look no further than the 6mm Rem and 257 Roberts. Fine cartridges themselves however under appreciated. With all that said however, I don't think a 7.62x57 would offer much the original 7 couldn't do loaded to modern pressures in a modern rifle.

Perzacktly, Bangeye.
I have a Pred 44 with a 5-dollar barrel from old Paragon in 8x57 that I am thinking hard about drilling for a scope. Has a low power "scout" cheapo on it now, and also a Redfield peep and globe, both setups have it h o v e r i n g just over an inch at 100, and I actually killed a couple PD's with it at about 150-200 yards.
But it shoots as well, if not better, as any sporter 30-06 I've ever touched. So even steven.

I believe it was one of Ackley's books, that listed the 7 x 57 necked up to 30 caliber...

of course it was a wildcat, it was in the 50s and was called the 30 American IIRC....