Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Minimum energy for Whitetails....

Providing good shot placement..... what do you consider the minimum amount of energy needed for a humane kill on a whitetail?

MuleDeer ?
Elk?

I have to assume this is a serious question, so I will respond. An arrow will kill a whitetail deer if punched thru the heart lung area, and kill it humanely and usually within under 100 yards of where you shoot the animal. There is not much energy in an arrow. I am now hunting with a 5.56 NATO rifle shooting 62 grain monolithic bullets at 3000FPS. Its only supposed to be good enough for fiddler crabs and lizards however it kills good sized deer pretty much as fast or faster than a 30-06 in my limited experience, of course 10 years ago I did not know that...

Enough to push an expanding bullet through both lungs.

Here is a brief synopsis of the rifle and energy requirements from the latest American Journal of Deer Hunting, published in Polebridge, Montana.
Take the price you pay for a bos of 20 cartridges, idexed for inflationtion to their 1999 level in Canadian dollars, and that is the maximum size animal those cartridges are good for.
Then, to calculate the maximum range you can shoot, average the price of your rifle(manufactured suggested) with the price of the scope (excluding mounts) and that is the maximum range that rifle and cartridge is good for.
You can see the entire article on www.gettafookinclue.com.

This is the one and only correct answer.

Ft-lbs of energy is a very poor indicator of bullet effectiveness.

A typical expanding bullet will normally make a 14-16" wound channel. If that wound channel is large enough in diameter, say 1/2" or so for NA big game, and if it transects one or more major organs with large blood supply (lungs, liver, major blood vessel) or the central nervous system, the animal will fairly quickly die. It is not more complicated than that.

I put the minimum at the .38-40 WCF. The .25-20 and .32-20 are iffy killers on deer. A little too light. The .38-40 seems to kill deer at modest ranges well though.

Pretty much what others said ,forget the energy thing .
if it has enough remaining velocity at target impact to expand and push through both lungs it is enough.

Craig

concur

22 Hornet, I had an uncle who in the last decade of his life, put 45 gr Speer SP's that I hand loaded thru the ribs of white tails some times 6 or 7 a year. One shot only, that guy was never with out fresh venison. He could also shoot too. I once watch him hit a golf ball off of a cedar post almost 200 yards out, off hand. The man was a horror to be around for more than an hour but shoot, that he could. It got so bad that he could not go to the local turkey shoots anymore. The 22 Hornet was an old Savage 340 where he got it I don't know, all I know is I get a phone call, load me some ammo would you. Never did pay for the bullets powder cases or loading dies I didn't have at the time. For some reason he when to that cartridge, I guess for noise. The old poacher.

A lot of States (so we teach in hunter safety class) say 500 foot pounds or the equivalent of a 175 grain bullet out of a .357 mag. Where handguns are legal, (like where we hunted in N.C.) a .357 mag was minimum. A lot of States also specify .243 as a minimum bullet diameter.

Snares work really well at whatever energy the deer aplies to them.

I prefer a 3# trigger myself.

I'm currently shooting the speer 115gr gold dot at 1850fps in my 32-20. While this is certainly not a long range load, I'll gladly put it through the lungs of any whitetail inside 50 yards.

I've got a rancher friend who knows almost nothing about ballistics who regularly shoots deer with a 22 hornet. He has never lost a deer shot with it. He got a 17HMR last year and I've had to beg him not to shoot deer with it. He does have a pre-64 270, but its too loud and kicks too much to use all the time.

FWIW, our state regs say 1,000 ftlbs for rifles 500 ftlb for pistols for Deer. 1,700ft lbs for Elk with the addition they must be larger than .243 caliber for Elk (Pistol regs are the same). That's not a whole lot. It used to say a .22 cal minimum for deer but i cannot find it only the muzzle energy as outlined above so I guess you could use a .204 Ruger for deer if you wanted to the way I read it.

That's interesting ... why split them and not simply require a 500 ft-lb minimum?
Cheers...
Con

This was a debate at the time clock the other day and was curious what others had to say on the topic. Thank you.

I agree with most of the above. ft. lbs. of energy doesn't kill, penetration and expansion does. But, while not perfect, the energy numbers are a rough guide to how much expansion and penetration you'll get.

All things equal, more energy = more penetration and expansion. That seems pretty accurate when you compare similar cartridges. If comparing 30-06, 270, etc I'd say it is pretty close. When you compare 223 to 45-70 or an arrow, the numbers can be misleading since they get their penetration differently.

The numbers I've always heard are 1000 for deer, 1500 for elk. Obviously it can be done with less, and there are many other factors to consider. But those numbers seem reasonable to me as a general guide.

I'd go with the minimal amount as required by state laws, or Mule Deer's answer. Whichever keeps you legal.

Nebraska is 22 caliber and 900 ft/lbs at 100 yards for white tails/muleys. 26 caliber and 2000 ft/lbs at 100 yards for elk.

What the state law requires.