Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Phil Shoemaker - A Bear Pistol Question:

Caught your recent YouTube interview w/ Ron Spomer.

Very interesting and insightful, thank you for your time and candor.


The discussion on the 9mm v. Brown Bear was especially fascinating.
(as well as your opinion on good heavy bullets, placed well, from common caliber rifles)

Got me to thinkin', and, in turn, if you can spare the time, an interest in your opinion.


Was a time, here in the Louisiana piney woods, that a .357 Mag. w/ 180 gr. Sierra TournamentMaster truncated FMJ was carried for Hog(300+lbs.) and panther defense.

And maybe the occasional Black Bear.


Then came across a 5.3" .357Sig conversion Bbl. for the Glock G23 .40., and a pile of this Hornady Custom 147 gr. XTP ammo, dirt cheap.

The bullets are non-catalog, and are constructed like revolver bullets, w/ a roll-crimp, and designed for ~ 1.5x expansion at magnum revolver velocity.

They clock ~ 1325 fps out of this Bbl. are very precise, easy to shoot accurately, and the pistol holds 14 of'em - while being significantly lighter than the revolver it replaced.


This is an interesting vid, 5" Bbl'ed pistol test, including a gel test w/ a combination of denim and MDF intermediate barrier.



How do you think it stacks up as a bear round?

(Though Black Bear is probably the more reasonable concern, and Grizzly a distant second.)


Know you are busy w/ your approaching Season, so, again, if inclined, at your convenience.



B/RE:

GR

Every hunter should see this video with Phil.

Placement & Penetration trump all. That’s why elephant hunters use solid bullets .

When I was testing the 9mm Buffalo Bore 147 gr bullets I also tested a 30 Tokarev like I carried in Vietnam , my 357 , my S&W 44 Mtn Gun and a 475 Linebaugh. All of them gave adequate penetration to reach the vitals of the massive bears I deal with .

Best post of the thread! 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

I would add the 10mm Buffalo Bore Outdoorsman Load and the 357 Sig 125 gr load to the list. Both have penetrated many large hogs here at the Ranch.
Rarely “catch” one of the hard cast 10mm bullets in a hog. They almost always exit.

I’ve also used the 30 Tokarev or 7.62x25 quite a bit with the S&B FMJ factory ammo out of a surplus CZ 52 pistol I bought years ago for $100 bucks. Heck of a round!
Reminds me a lot of the 357 Sig round

I love my .357 Sig. One of the best purchases I ever made. I spent the extra $150 and got a .40 S&W barrel for it so I can shoot cheaper ammo at the range.

Being interested in such things. I’ve watched it read about ever bear incident I could find. I can’t recall anyone carrying a firearm of any type to be harmed by a black bear. I imagine it’s happened, but it can’t be very frequent.

I think I’d rather confront a black bear while packing a .38 or 9mm than to confront a grizzly while armed with a rifle. I live in “bear country” here in MI. I often go about armed with only a 2 inch pocket knife. I actually do carry a firearm more often now, but animal attacks remain low on my list of worries.

It is amazing what goes thru a persons mind when being "charged". One day my son and I were fishing on the Russian River, he was about 12 or so. A black bear was walking alone the shore line looking for scraps when a couple of guys burst thru the brush and startled the bear. He was pretty spooked and immediately turned and ran. He hit the boardwalk and was headed straight to my son and I. Even though I was packing a 4 inch S&W 500 the only thought in my mind was to put my son behind me to offer some protection. I would of been completely justified shooting the bear DLP and I never even considered pulling out my revolver.
Things happen quickly. And unless you have the years of experience a quality guide has (like Phil) you never know what you will do.

'
Probably a good people shooter with those hollow points.
I would want a hardcast bullet if I was going in bear country.

Can someone post a link?

Just go to youtube and use search terms Ron Spomer Phil Shoemaker.

Great video! Just watched it and it was an hour well spent. Thank you, Garandimal, for calling my attention to it and thanks to Mr Shoemaker for sharing his experiences and wisdom.

All;
Morning all, hope you're well.

Ask and it shall be given - as it were and so to speak.




Indeed it's a good one.

Best to you all.

Dwayne

I suppose Phil’s post is description enough, but is there a transcript available or TLDW for those of us who aren’t interested in a YouTube video? I’m too old for this video schist.

You're gonna have to settle for his post but your virtue signal is flashing 5X5.

Always funny how a few are not interested in actually hearing what others have to say, especially when the other is a legendary subject matter expert on the subject matter. Phil did a great job.

I watched the whole thing and found it very interesting, but then I like to learn stuff and how often can one listen to a guy with 45 years of bear hunting talk about bear hunting and bear defense.

As this is a technical type forum I did notice Phil said the BBA 9mm 147gr ammo was going 1300fps. That's quite a bit faster than on Tim's site and a 147gr @1300fps is pretty hot for .357 Sig much more so for 9X19mm even in +P dressing.

Phil's handguns and handgun wisdom are interesting because of who he is and how he's lived his life but THIS is Phil's gun:



He wrote an article about it for John and Eileen's Rifle Loony News that is one of the best things I've read about a rifle ever. He's such a unique dude and has lived this life that strikes such a chord for guys like us. The ugliest, most utilitarian, most effective weapon ever which he builds, whittles, saws, fabricates to work with his own personal physicality in the context of the physicality of a charging, wounded grizzer bear looking to kill him. It's pure poetry in the form of a rifle. Real poetry. By a real poet. I mean, look at that thing! Is that a piece of inner tube for a scope cover? And all that fiberglass and bondo repairing is him making that stock fit him perfectly. Beautiful.

Hat off to you, Mr. Shoemaker.

Indeed it is! One of, if not the best scope covers available. I've used them for about 60 years.

Mr. Shoemaker`s article >
He wrote an article about it for John and Eileen's Rifle Loony News that is one of the best things I've read about a rifle ever.


which one is that on Rifles and Recipes LoonY news ? ,thank you Pete53

"Rifles that Work for a Living" in the August 2011 edition - Vol. 3 issue 2

John, I did give the wrong velocity for the BB 9mm. I had placed a box of 357 BB ammo on top of my 9mm stash and simply looked down and read the velocity of the 357. My mistake. The 9mm 147 gr bullets are running right around the listed 1100 fps

I also wrote a feature in the 2018 Gun Digest on the entire episode and included numerous photos

enjoyed watching that Mr Shoemaker. Always a wealth of knowledge.