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nhFrank Offline OP
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I have a Siamese mauser in 45/70 .And was told this rifel has a very strong action .And was woundering if it could be chambered for 45/90.and still feed allrite Allways thinking bigger

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You could probably go 450 Alaskan, which is the 348 (similar to the 50/70 case size, and fatter than the 45/70) necked to 45 and improved to a straighter body and sharper neck. This would get you to similar ballistic realm and be hard on the heels of a 458WinMag if not duplicitous with todays powders now available to us.


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IIRC these Siamese Mausers are in the same class as a Ruger #1.
Your shoulder will give out before the action will!
A hot 45-70 load will give you all a sane person would want with smokeless powder. Try the Hornady 350 gr Interlock.
whelennut


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There is only one kind of dead, but there are many different kinds of wounded.
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nhFrank Offline OP
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So whelennut what your saying is Iam better to stay with what I have wouldnt gain anything from the bunp up

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I have a Siamese Mauser in 45/70 and shoot the hot Buffalo Bore loads. It's my "imaginary" safari rifle. he he


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nhfrank,
The only way I would shoot 45-90 would be with Pyrodex or black powder.
Hot smokeless loads will be like a miniature .458 Magnum,
check out the loading manuals like Speer and Hornady. They will show tremendously powerful 45-70 loads for your rifle or the Ruger single shot.
Have fun!
whelennut


I like to do my hunting BEFORE I pull the trigger!
There is only one kind of dead, but there are many different kinds of wounded.
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For comparison, data from an older Lyman manual:

45-70, 400gr PB, 25.0 gr 2400, 1465 fps, (max load)

45-90, 400gr PB, 30.0 gr 2400, 1575 fps, (max load)

458 WinMag, 395 GC, 50.0-55.0 gr IMR4064, 1455-1700 fps

Very little return on investment. I have a Siam 45-70 and it will handle all the "hot" loads a guy wants to shoot. 20 off the bench at one sitting is my limit.


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nhFrank Offline OP
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whelennut
I wouldnt mind trying b/p what kinda load would you use I have some ff.I never liked pyrodex in my hawkens ,seems to me like black powder has more of a whop to it

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nhFrank.
I have a copy of Ken Waters Handloader which lists 66 grains of FFG as a charge for the 45-70 with a 400 grain lead bullet.
Give that a whirl.
Have Fun,
whelennut


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There is only one kind of dead, but there are many different kinds of wounded.
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nhFrank Offline OP
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hey Tanks whelennut. Were going to have good wehter this weekend, plan on doing some plinking I will givet a try Ill let you know what i think
NH Frank

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you should fill the cases enough to slightly compress the BP charge with the bullet. that is the proper way to load BP cartridges.


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Just for kicks I loaded up some 500 Gr HOT loads for my Ruger 4570. According to the recipe they were running around 2000fps+
This is just short of a 459 Win Mag. They were interesting,I am glad I tried them,but they provide quite a jolt when fired. They were in no way a fun load to play with. If I were going after African dangerous game,I would use them. I really don't think they are useful against any North American animals. Even Grizzles could be taken with less of a load.

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For what it is worth I have three. Last year I took one to Namibia for plains game and to experiment with some hot loads. 60gr of H4198 and Hornady 350gr JFP and some 330gr Barnes Banded Solids for the 458 SOCOM. Both loads chrono at 2395-2405fps and to the same POA at 100yds. Both loads are in the heart of the 458 Win Mag load data.

330gr BBS passed end to end through an average sized zebra and the 350gr hit gemsbok like a freight train. One was a frontal chest at about 40yds and it knocked him back and down on his haunches and then down. Didn't recover it - it was buried somewhere deep in the intestines.

Over on the AR forum, under the Big Bore section and under Terminal Bullet Performance the 330gr BBS, from a 458 Win Mag at 2300fps drove through 64" of wet newsprint dead straight.

One of them is going again this year along with a newly acquired Pre-64 Win Mod 70 in 450 Marlin loaded with 350gr JFPs and 330gr BBS.

Not sure if I would do anything different with yours - In fact I am going to be selling my 375 H&H and 458 Win Mag this year as I don't see any reason for them any more.

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Frank,

What's the ctg. length capacity of that Mauser? Some of those longer, older BP ctgs are pretty long. Unless you plan to go with BP, they're actually counter productive. With smokeless, the 45-70 is case enough and easier to load accurate rounds than some of those.

You can load a 45-70, in that gun, to some pretty awesome power levels. If it was mine, I'd stay with the 45-70 and see what all I could do with it.

IMHO,

DF

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nhFrank Offline OP
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Hey ya I loaded some Hornady 350 FXT and some reloader #7 48 grains, and outa my Kraig thay were pushing 1880FPS and had a dam good recoil .But the primers were flating out,seem like to much pressure ??.I took it down to 39 grains and it was still going 1700FPS and hitting a real good group. The Siamese is going to MY brother ,and I think it will stay 45/70.

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Frank:

If your Siamese Mauser is like mine, you will have a lot of extra cartridge length available in the magazine. This will let you shoot 45-70 rounds that have a COL of greater than the standard 2.54 inches - provide you have a bullet shape that will fit the free bore in your chamber. You can also take advantage of Spritzer points.

This brings me to the Barnes Banded Solid I mentioned above. Since it is 330grs of brass it is longer than a standard 350 gr JFP - it is roughly similar in length to a standard lead/jacketed 400gr projectile. Since it has driving bands, if it is seated/crimped in the grove just behind the driving band closest to the point you get similar case capacity as if you are loading a 350gr XXXX. The driving bands give it a slimmer nose profile an allow a round of a little over 3" COL to chamber in a standard 45-70 chamber. I can even chamber one in my Marlins if I drop it in through the ejection port - Warning: It will not eject unless you actually fire the round or pull the bolt out - and don't fire one of my hot loads in a Marlin!!!

You may want to try a different powder than RL-7 if you want more velocity with lower pressures. As posted above I use H4198. The three Mausers I have have 20", 22" and 26" barrels. The 20" runs my loads at 2400, the 22" at 2460 and the 26" at 2710 with zero indications of over pressure. Note that these are pretty compressed loads.

I am currently at 56grs of H4198 in the Win 70 in 450M and I am just at 2400fps. The 450M case has a 5-7% smaller volume due to its belt/webbing.

Based on last years performance on plans game I would not be afraid to use the solids on everything that walks the planet...just be sure of what is on the other side!!


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nhfrank,

How did the Siamese Mauser shoot for you?

Tell me about the Krag.
whelennut


I like to do my hunting BEFORE I pull the trigger!
There is only one kind of dead, but there are many different kinds of wounded.
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nhFrank Offline OP
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I havent tryed the black powder yet.But shootin the smokless its a realy nice shooter. The Krag is a really nice rifle ,I found in a local gunsmiths shop, the smith put it togther it is a fine pice and shoots realy nice. But I have talked to a few people and have been told not to over load it if you what I can email a picture for you .My pc is a peice of crap and I cant swink the image down

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nhFrank - that Siamese mauser in .45/70 was all the rage several decades ago, when folks wanted to REALLY upload that 'ol grandpa round, to mimic the more expensive .458WM. Some even came with Fajen walnut stocks. Just a thought, check out that "recoil bruise" post before you convert to .45/90 OR heat up the .45/70 first.
Have fun...wish I had one to play with. Regards, Homesteader.

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The Siamese is a modified M98 mauser isn't it? Therefore it has a mag capacity length of 3.115 to 3.31" depending... The 45-90 Win has a case length of 2.4 and COAL of ~2.90" to whatever you want to seat the bullet at. There is also the 45-110 Sharps Straight or 27/8" that could be use or trimmed to give you a max mag length of 3.30" fairly easily.

I converted a SMLE 2a 308 Isapore to 458 American and can shoot 45-70 to 45-100 case lengths but at a max COAL of ~3.06 due to the constraints of the SMLE mag...I also use a 458 WM case cut to ~2.3" to get the COAL I want for crimping in the cannelure of the bullet I happen to be shooting. I actually used a 458 WM reamer but marked the barrel 458 American for safety sake.

If it were my rig I would just rechamber to 45-100 and load to whatever COAL the mag allows and call it good...keeping the pressure within the strength of the receiver. I would ALSO the headspace and then maybe just rechamber to the belted mag case just like I did with my SMLE...the headspace should be around 0.060" and if you chamber right BOTH the belted mag AND 45-70 to 45-10 cases can be used. With the SMLE 2a 308, 12 round magazine I can feed a couple of rimmed cases from the top, then 458 Am below that.

I load only to ~45KCUP, because that is the receiver's spec, right at 2000fs with AA2460 and 450gr hard cast bullets, but with a M98 you should be able to go a bit faster, safely. I like the 450 gr bullets as a good compromise between a "standard" 400 gr and a "heavy hitter" 500 gr. TrueShot 435 gr is another very good, unbelievablely uniform as to diameter and weight bullet that shoots very well ~2150fs and would definitely go faster in a M98.

You would be in the 458 WM range of ballistics with a 45-100 case as my 45-2.6" measures 2.6"(DUH smile ), or near Lott with the 45-110 Sharps Straight.

I wouldn't mind finding a "cheap" Siamese floating around loose...I can always use another toy to play with. Hahahahaha

Hey...that ol' grampa cartridge will eat your lunch if it is loaded in a modern receiver at modern pressures...I garoontee, MON CHER. shocked laugh

Lots of ways to jump here.

LUCK

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