Home Forums Hunting & Shooting BPCR Cartridge collectors, headstamps

Are there any cartridge collectors among us? I have a question about the .45/75 Sharps loading in the 2 1/10" case. Was that ever headstamped as "45/75?"

I doubt it was ever headstamped that way.Sharps just called it the 2.1, Remington and Wincheter referred to it as the 45 govt.
There were some variations of the 45-90 winchester that had differing headstamps tho, and the 45-75 would likely have been for a heavier than the 280 gr bullet.I have a 45-85 marlin cartridge, which was their way of saying 45-90 winchester , without doing so...
And don't forget that there was the 45-75 winchester but it was a bottle neck

Ranch, Yes, I'm well aware of the .45/75 Winchester, used in their Model 1876. What really made me ask the question about a .45/75 headstamp on the standard .45/70 case comes from two sketches I've seen. One, in Cartridges of the World, shows the .45/75 Sharps Straight loaded with a 400 grain paper patch bullet. In that sketch the cartridge is headstamped "W.R.A. Co." on the top and "45-75 S" on the bottom. Then in the 1916 Winchester catalog there is a .45/75/420 Sharps shown in a very good and detailed sketch but that cartridge's case is headstamped with ".45-70." Also, just because I was just looking at it, a .45-85 Bullard is shown which had the same 2.1" case and that is sketched with a ".45-85 BUL" headstamp. You know I have a particular (or peculiar) interest in the .45/75 Sharps so I wonder if that headstamp existed. And if it did exist or not, maybe we should make some new ones.

http://www.oldammo.com/general.htm
Might take a look in Seller's book and see what they have to say there, but I'm thinking Sharps never headstamped any of their cartridges.. I could be wrong on thattho so don't try to take it to the bank as collateral on your next rifle....

Ranch, I've been to "oldammo" but no help. You're right, as far as I know, about Sharps not headstamping their ammo. And I'll guess that UMC didn't start headstamping until Sharps was already history. The examples I referred to in sketches were both from Winchester. Sellers did not comment on the .45/75 Sharps loadings in his text but the load is shown in the copy of the old Meacham add on page 186 where the 2 1/10" chamber is listed for 70-75 grain loads.

From what I gather from reading in Sellers, that the headstamping probably came from Winchester or UMC after Sharps quit , most likely due to the shear number of cartridges Sharps offered.
It is also interesting to note that for the most part except for their long range ammo, they (Sharps) contracted most of it out to the lowest bidder..
I have several reprints of the old Sharps catalogs and they all list the 2.1 case loaded with 75 grs of powder and a 1.1 inch patched bullet and the naked grooved bullet with 70 grs of powder.

Ranch, Those old catalogs are treasures. Now I wonder why Sellers didn't give the .45/75 loading more attention.

I don't know what he was thinking, but as valuable a resource as that book is, it doesn't take long to pick out his personal prejudices..

Hey Ranch, We all show our personal prejudices, sometimes only too well. I notice one of mine is how much I applaud Sellers' box and how I go back to it over and over. At the same time there are chapters in that book that I've never even looked at. The subjects of those chapters simply don't interest me.

Now, you've helped me in the past so I'll ask another cartridge question. I see referrence to a .44-70-2.1" Remington. Is that just a .45-70 necked down to .44? If so, what advantage does it offer? I realize that .45-70 brass is easy to come by but that shouldn't be the only reason for this 2.1" .44, other brass is not that hard to get. Please tell me what you can.

Yup you got the 44-70 down, same goes for the 4490-st and 100.
Advantage is being able to shoot the better bc/sd 44 caliber bullets over the fatter 45 cal.
For reasons probably mostly due to market share/brand ID, Remington stuck with the 44 calibers, and stayed away from the 45's, while sharps dropped the 44 like a hot potatoe and went with the 45's..
Sharps folded,remington went on... just food for thought....

Ranch, Do I detect a personal prejudice there...? I just had to ask.

Only for the 44 caliber.

Alright, back to headstamps, I know the .44/77 was subject to at least a few different loading such as .44/70 or .44/75. But was that cartridge ever give any headstamp other than .44/77?

I don't think it was ever headstamped any other, but that sure doesn't mean alot..

Headstamps are an interesting study. You're most probably right about the .44/77. Those other loadings I mentioned were from Sharps, according to Sellers again, and the Sharps cartridges wouldn't be headstamped. Anyway, I'll forever be on the trail or some new or old .45/75 Sharps headstamps.

I'ld about bet that finding old 45/75 Sharps headstamps will be nye onto impossible, as after sharps closed up, the paper patch load for that case pretty much dissappeared, and it was simply the 45 govt, loaded with the 405 gr bullet and 70 grs...

Ranch, I'm not sure the paper patch loads disappeared that quickly. Of course, I'm only going on pictures but in the 1916 Winchester catalog a lot of paper patch loads are still shown. The .45/75 Sharps is one of them. Those loads might not have been found on the hardware store shelves but they were available on order. I've got an 1896 UMC catalog here someplace, I'll have to look for that to see what paper patch loads they offered at that time. Back to Winchester for one more comment, several of the cartridges chambered in the High Wall were commonly paper patched which makes me want to guess that paper patching lived on after the early 1880s. Anyway, if I don't find a .45/75 Sharps headstamped cartridge or case, I'll just keep looking. That way the fun never ends.