Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting Preoccupation with Firearms

There always seems to be at least one, usually several current threads running where someone is asking about firearms related to elk hunting. They ask which caliber or bullet style is best or which gun they should buy for elk hunting. Or they are asking what's the effective range of caliber "X" or compare one bullet performance to that of another or one rifle to another.

Whenever I read such a post it occurs to me that "There goes someone who doesn't know much about elk hunting." They haven't enough hunting experience to realize that shooting and killing an elk is the easiest part of the whole process. The most difficult part of elk hunting is finding the elk and the second hardest part is getting them out after we kill one.

I would like to read more posts about how to sneek through the dark timber when you know they are in there somewhere but you don't know exactly where. Or maybe a post relating to what kind of results people have had using a cow elk call. Then Maybe a post regarding how to manage to be patient when you know that you are sitting in the right place and you know that sooner or later an elk will walk by if you just have the patience to sit there long enough. And then I would like to read a thread where the subject of hawling out an elk is discussed.

I guess maybe I need to start those posts.

KC

I could tell you about the times I snuck through the timber and it worked but it would be a lot easier to tell you when it didn't. Maybe that is why we don't talk about it much. When it works is when I don't do the wrong thing or am in the right place at the right time.

I will always remember twenty minutes in an Alder swamp after I saw an elk part about 25 yards away. I could smell him, I had seen part of a rack, I believe I could hear him breathe. I was sitting on a log watching an abandoned skid road half a mile above the travelled road. I had been there about an hour. I sat waiting for him to move for twenty or more minutes. Yes, I looked at my watch. My butt started to hurt and I shifted about six inches. He heard it, figured out where I was and slipped out. All I heard was a hoof, a rear I believe, touch a log as he slipped out.

I go back each season and think about the one's that outwaited me or when I got impatient or when I simply wasn't man enough to get to where I needed to be fast enough to kill him. And yes, sometimes when I didn't manage my rifle well or shot poorly.

Whoever said experience is something you get right after you need it knew about elk.

"I would like to read more posts about how to sneek through the dark timber when you know they are in there somewhere but you don't know exactly where"

"how in $%% do I find ELK, the areas huge and they seem to be very hard to find"

I POSTED SOMETHING VERY SIMILAR IN A REQUEST A YEAR OR SO BACK, THINKING IT WOULD HELP THE NEWER GUYS......I got very few replies or useful info in responce.....but Ill try to give some pointers or bits of info that might be useful

(1) get out your topo maps well before the season and try to find the least accessable areas, furthest from roads, and camp sites, that still have both water and expansive brush and timber

(2) realize that on opening day the areas near roads and camp sites (within a mile or so depending on the terrain features)will generally be long ago vacated by the ELK.

(3)look for lands/fences posted as PRIVATE PROPERTY that limit general access to areas, in many cases gates accross roads block vehical access, but a walk accrossed BLM or NATIONAL FOREST land will give access to seldom hunted areas.

(4) yes youll need to get a decent GPS to validate your true location and learn to read map boundries carefully and LOCAL COUNTY BOUNDRY MAPS giving detailed property borders, will help.

(5)learn to USE the movement of the majority of casual hunters movements within a mile or two of those roads and camp sites, to push the majority of the game and to concentrate the game in those areas.
HUNT FROM DAWN TILL DARK, STAY ALERT, YOUR CHANCES DECREASE DRAMATICALLY SITTING AROUND CAMP

(6)game will generally take the lesser steep slopes and stay near or into the edge of cover, game like hunters will generally avoid extremely steep areas UNLESS PUSHED,but they need both water and food plus cover, any area that does not have those is LESS likely to hold game.

(7)north and east facing slopes GENERALLY hold more food plants and cover and SOUTH AND WEST facing slopes less, you can normally see what moves on the OPPOSITE slope in a narrow canyon better than your own side,use that info!

(8) areas extensively covered with juniper, aspens and oak brush generally produce better results than larger conifers , open grass or sage once hunting starts to apply pressure on the ELK.

(9) a $20 bill slipped into several local ranchers hands in exchange for a brief few questions on the local herds is usually money well spent, ESPECIALLY if you can do it a week or so prior to the season

(10) talk to the local biologist several times well before the season opens

(11) GLASS from SHADED areas under trees limbs or without being high lighted on a ridge crest and wear dull grey/browns/greens or better yet camo in dull grey/browns/greens. watch the wind dirrection,mark your maps and ask the local game department for info.USE a wide brim hat, shading your face and eyes helps

(12) buy groceries/ supplies/gas locally and be friendly to the clerks, ask where the better areas are and WHAT AREAS ARE NOT WORTH HUNTING

(13)walking rail road right of ways can occasionally allow access to national forest or BLM areas beyond private land boundries


(14)learn the games anatomy and to shoot off hand out to at least 75-100 yards both fast and accurately enought to hit a 6" paper plate within a few seconds, game seldom stands around like those silly calender pictures taken in national parks, youll need to be effective at shooting slow walking targets at times with-in a few seconds, take advantage of ALL oppertunities instantly when they occure, they seldom last for more than seconds, this IS why heavier caliber ELK rifles have an advantage, (you can,t always get ideal shot angles on the vitals)Im not advocating texas heart shots but having the ability to place a shot near the last rear rib on the near side and rake thru to exit the far shoulder RELIEABLY a nice option the heavier calibers are better at.

(15) rim rock, steep river banks,narrow canyons,fire crew access roads, fences and rail road right of ways can influeance the way game routes its travels thru an area you can use that info,find the best locations where a rifleman can can control access thru an area, power line right of ways can be a great way to allow a rifleman to deny game crossing thru an area un-detected
(16)
hunting with a partner or partners and acting like a team where the movements of one member may push game too the others,and scouting by the others aids your chances is smart. if you place one member 3/4 way up a slope and one 1/4 of the way up your chance of spotting game movements for both increases

(17) don,t get to concerned with absolute accuracy, a guy that can shoot and hit a 4" plate consistantly at 100 yards in under 4 seconds will kill plenty of elk but a guy that can shoot 1/2" groups but takes a minute to get ready will have far fewer chances
(18) learn to use a cow elk call it will occasionally help you get in closer before the herd spooks, and allow you to cover for some noise made, Ive even had several ELK come on a run when I was just calling as I slowly still hunted thick aspens

(19) when you stop be in the shade and hopefully against a tree stump, behind a fallen tree or under conifer branches or near brush,sit & glass,don,t stand, your harder to detect that way.

(20) pay attention to whats going on well out on the edges of your visual range, use binoculars,you can cover far more ground with vision, carefully glassing, than walking thru it,Ive seen ELK stare out at us from timber from over 200 yards away,on more than one occasion as we slowly walked logging roads, don,t talk, the human voice carries hundreds of yards and spooks game, try to stay in the edges of brush, when moving, looking out,unscreened movement and standing in the open makes you very easy to spot/avoid/detect

Before I had ever killed an Elk, I blew what would have been my first chance. I was on one side of a small finger canyon and spotted three Elk working along the opposite ridge just below the skyline. I covered behind a tree waiting for a clear shot but decided I would have a better shot if I moved to a location behind another tree. I never saw those Elk again, but when I crossed to where they were I found that the tracks turned hard right just where they were when I moved.
One lesson learned.

Yep, yep, and yeppers.

But that's not really where these forums shine--besides, you kinda' gotta be there to learn much of what elk hunting is.

I'm far from always being right, but one can take a look at a small area, and it looks "elky". Food, cover, disturbance (or the absence thereof). Same thing with deer. The last few summers I've been taking my little boy out in northern Colorado checking out moose (he loves to "scout" for moose, and I'm starting to get a feel where to find moose at times....at least I think I am......


Casey

Ya' shoulda' plugged 'em with the 338-06 on the spot!


I wanna see your Cerra-cote that's on your rifles sometime--been thinking about doing some kind of coating on a couple of mine.



Casey

i hunted and killed elk in colorado in the early 70's, then the army moved me all over the world for the next 27 years. after i retired i returned to colorado but found very few elk where i used to hunt.

the following allowed me to kill an elk my first time in a new area (and almost every year till the present). i hunt with recurves or longbows in colorado, but have used a muzzle loader twice:

i first got the kill data for the state for the previous 3 years. i then selected an area i wanted to hunt.

i called the colorado dow and asked for the name and number of the biologist of the area i was interested in. some areas also have a manager (perhaps they all do, i don't know)

i bought usgs maps of the area

i called the biologist, said i was new to the area, and asked if he would help me find a location which would offer me an opportunity if i hunted hard. no atv area interested me. he mentioned several areas and said i could look him up when i came to co.

i arrived in the general area 3 days before season opening and called the biologist. i invited him and his wife (and entire family) out to dinner on me. he said he couldn't accept that but i could drop by his house and he would show me some places if i had maps.

at his home, he spent about an hour with me showing and telling me where he thought the elk were.

i asked him to prioritize the top 3 locations, which he did.

since he wouldn't accept a dinner out or an offer of some cash, i went into the closest town and bought him a very nice knife he could use.

i did some scouting of the area he said would be his first choice, and on opening day i killed a big cow. i have hunted that exact spot for the last 9 years, and have taken an elk in the first 3 days each year except 2.

moral of the story - ask for help from the people who know the area. be willing to work hard because elk are only where you find them. the more time you spend in a given area, the more familiar you become. knowledge of the elk in your chosen area and their travel patterns (both undisturbed and pushed) beats luck everytime imo. good luck.

Great post 340mag!

-jeff

I agree with everything 340 mag said except 14. A poorly placed shot/angle is just as bad with a bigger caliber/cartridge as a smaller one.I had the magnum craze years ago and found myself taking those less than optimum shots.

I might add that most guys move way to fast and cow call to often in the timber.

Many have too big a scope on thier rifle, power wise, to hunt effcetively in the heavy stuff

KC, the problem with "talking" about elk hunting is, like the old preacher said, "it's better felt than telt" and is better learned by doing than reading...

Still agree with you... can hardly stomach gun conversation anymore...

KC, I think a lot of hunters go through stages of learning. I remember years ago I really enjoyed reading about and fooling around with different guns and cartridges. After finding a satisfactory solution to the firearms question, I admit I'm a little bored by the subject.

I may have the gun thing figured out, but I haven't got the elk figured out! I've only hunted elk a dozen years now. I've still got a lot to learn!

I really appreciate the hunters that take time to share their experience....

KC - good call. I think there's a lot of guys who like to debate the intricacies of one rifle/cartridge/bullet/scope combo vs another. That really doesn't matter much. It's actually getting out in the field, and hunting. Doing it well, that matters. Shooting is important of course, but far to much is made of the specifics of each rifle/cartridge etc...

I'd like to see more input from skilled & successful hunters as well.

Good post. Thanks, Guy

My personal experince is that I might get one shot at an elk in the timber for every ten that I see and are legal. I might be able to cut that in half if I took more questionable shots.

After a person hears that familar thump ,thump, thump quite a few times of an elk trotting away in the timber without actually seeing it, they start to learn to slow down, watch the wind more. Then they start to hear hooves cracking branches or clicking on logs and they slow down more and watch the wind even more. Then after a few years, they start to see hair, eyes, ears and legs. Further effort and they start to see elk in thier beds.

When you get to that point, you know about 1/2 of what is required to be a succesful elk hunter in the timber, and you just keep learning after that. When you think you know everything there is about elk hunting, you are either too old to do it, or need to go back and relearn the things you forgot.

Also I think too many guys give up too fast and decide there are no elk around even though they know they are in good elk country . They may not be in that particular drainage or on that particaulr ridge, but you either go find where they are, or wait and they will eventually get pushed into the area from other hunters, if your hunt is long enough. I believe I have killed lot more elk on Tues., Wed, etc. or even the last day of the hunt rather than the 1st week end. This is why I dislike the 1st elk season in CO. 5 days is way too short if you need to go find the elk. Of course I always settle down and hunt better after a few days. Once you figure out the elk are not going to come easy, you start to figure out things a might more and work harder at it.

Some guys who go on guided hunts or hunt exclusively on private land where the elk are not pressured as much never get to the more advanced stages of elk hunting as thier elk come a lot easier.

Except for late hunts where the elk are herded up and working to get thier food, I have never seen or have benen able to shoot a bull in an open meadow like you see on those hunting shows Quite few guys won't hunt with me because they say I worked too hard at it.

Fun thread..
Many spend alot of time and money on 'shooting stuff' and neglect their hunt planning, physical condition, knowlege of elk-terrain-habits , use of edged tools etc..

IF you can shoot offhand( maybe with good sling or bipod) at hit a dinner plate at 250 yards with a .257, 264, .30 caliber or larger bullet, you won't have a problem killing a bull elk in most scenarios or states..:)

There have been quite a few posts on these forums over the years on all the REST of what it takes to find, hunt, butcher & pack elk..

The selection of rifle and cartridge and bullet and the marksmanship are the cake part of it..:)

The rest takes time, planning and hard work..:)
BUT it's all worth it in the end..:)Jim

Well said 340mag and hotsoup. When I'm hunting dark timber
I hunt very much the same way I was used to hunt Whitetails
in mesquite draws. I put the wind in my face and move very
slowly for about 10 to 15 feet then squat down and visually
try and break down the timber in front of me until I'm
convinced I'm alone then move up a few more feet, get a
slightly different angle and do it again. I've had some
sucess doing this but I've been busted more times than
I've taken an Elk. The only way I can hunt this way is I've
got to be sold on the area's potential. Normally when I'm
hunting this way it's because I've seen some Elk move into
the timber and it's usually shortly after daylight so
I'm set for most of the day. Later Baker

Dancing Bear,



Once I timed an elk for twenty-two minutes. It came down a trail and stopped no more than ten yards away. I don't think it know what I was. After the twenty-two minutes, it bent down and took a snipit of grass and looked back in my direction. It didn't even move an ear. Then it troted off.

I hear that. That's about how I hunt blacktails. You HAVE to know there's some animals around or it's impossible to sustain the concentration... not to mention you can waste a day crouching around in the woods without a critter within a half mile, something i've probably done more often than I'd like to know about! :-)

-jeff

After I had hunted elk for about twenty years and seen some success, I thought that I knew enough to write an article on how to hunt elk. Every year since then, I learn again that there's a lot that I don't know and the information in this article is only right some of the time. Just the same, there's still a lot of good info in the article so I'll repeat it.

I get an elk every year. Sometimes I get both a cow and a bull. My hunting buddies rarely get an elk and one guy asked me why. I replied that there are no secrets to hunting elk. You already know what you have to do to be successful. But most people won't or can't do what it takes to be successful.

You have to hunt throughout the entire year: studying, gear maintenance, shooting, scouting, etc.

You have to hunt every day of the entire season. You should arrive at camp no later than the day before opening day and don't leave until the day after the last day of the season. Don't hunt just on the weekends.

You have to hunt all day. The most productive times to hunt are just after dawn and just before sunset. So if you want to hunt during those times you have to do most of your hiking to and from the truck, in the dark. Stay in the field for the entire day.

You have to hunt the places that others won't or can't. Get away from the roads and hunt in the mean nasty hollows, where it's hard to get into and hard to get out of.

You have to learn to think like an elk. Pretend that you are an elk and you know that hunters are trying to kill you. Then go to the places and do the things that you need to do to avoid getting killed. That's how you find elk.

Once you've done all that, then you can employ these strategies.

Rule#1: Be safe with your rifle. Assume that any firearm is loaded unless the breech is open and you can see that it's empty. Always point the muzzle in a safe direction and never point your rifle at anything unless you intend to shoot it. Don't rely on the safety. Carry your rifle with the chamber empty and the safety on. Don't chamber a round until you spot a target. Never shoot at a target unless you are sure what it is, sure you can hit it and sure of what's behind it.

Rule #2: Be proficient with your rifle. Always make a clean, quick, humane kill. In order to do this you must be proficient with your rifle. No matter how good you have been in the past, you need to practice several times each summer to ensure that you are current. Don't just sight in your rifle. You must practice to ensure that your rhythm is smooth and habitual and you can hit what you aim at. Practice at 200 yards and 300 yards so that you can determine in the field, if you should take that shot. Also, get off the bench and practice in the prone position resting your rifle on a daypack and also in the sitting position. There never seems to be a bench rest in the field just where you want it.

Guideline #1: Be in good shape. Altitude sickness is a real concern in the mountains. You need to be in good cardio/vascular condition to deal with it. Also, everyone must do their share and you can't do that if you can't hike the hills, and haul out your share of the game, collect firewood, carry water, setup & break down camp, etc. If you are in bad physical condition, then you will be miserable and you will not enjoy the adventure. It's really endurance breathing that you need to develop before you arrive at high elevation. Bicycling, climbing stairs, swimming and high altitude hiking are excellent exercises for this purpose. Also drink lots of liquids in order to minimize the effects of dehydration and Acute Mountain Sickness. By the way, alcohol and caffeine are not good liquids to drinks because they are diuretics and you will end up even more dehydrated.

Guideline #2: Scout, Scout, Scout. You need to know your hunting area like your back yard. Take several camping/hiking trips and several backpack trips into your hunting area each summer. Know where their winter range is, where their summer range is and where the migration routes are that connect the two. Know where the game trails are concentrated crossing saddles on ridges, where the bedding areas are, where the water holes are, where the hideouts are. Take a couple of long hikes where you expect to find game, just before the season opens.

Buy US Forest Service maps, USGS maps, county maps and BLM maps of your area. These maps contain different information. Copy this information onto the USGS maps. You can only reasonably hunt the area on one USGS 7.5' map. But as luck would have it, the best hunting area is usually where several maps come together. Tape the maps together. Memorize your map. Update it with field data from your scouting trips. You now have a map containing information in a way that no one else has.

Guideline #3: Hunt where the elk are: Seventy-five percent (75%) of the elk live in twenty-five percent (25%) of the available habitat. You can waste a lot of time hunting unproductively in an area where there is always some thin sign but never enough sign to indicate the presence of a large herd. Sure there�s the off chance that by pure dumb luck you might encounter a lonesome elk and ever year someone gets lucky and fills their tag that way. But your best probability of success will be in the vicinity of the large herds. You scouting goal is to discover where that 25% hotbed is located. When you find that area it�s hard to miss. It will stink with elk musk and urine, there will be heavily used game trails in every direction, the grass will be cropped short, there will be lots fresh elk droppings and you can hear elk scurrying away just beyond in the trees.

Guideline #4: Hunt the right elevation for the migration: Elk accomplish an annual migration, spending the summer at higher elevation and spending the winter in some sheltered place, usually at lower elevation. In Colorado's 1st and 2nd rifle season, most elk will be found at higher elevations in mixed aspen/evergreen groves, with lots of grass and forbs for food. They can travel a long way for water. Look for them to start moving down their migration routes in the 3rd season.

Elk will wait as long as they can before being forced to migrate by bad weather. They will go back up if it warms. So if weather in the 3rd season is warm and dry, then look for them up high. Mule deer will migrate sooner and faster than elk. One day of really bad weather and deep snow, will result in lots of deer in the sage where the day before there wasn't an animal to be found. Deer usually stay down once they have migrated. In the late seasons elk can often be found in rancher�s pastures.

When the weather is warm, there will always be a few elk spread out throughout their entire range. So the population density (elk/square mile) is less dense and your chance of bumping into an elk is low. I hunt the 3rd rifle season and hope for heavy snow and bad weather to drive them out of the high country. They will concentrate in the foothills, at the bottom of the snow line. Since they are concentrated, the population density is higher and your chance of seeing an elk is improved.

Guideline #5: Use hunting pressure to your advantage. I hunt an area on opening morning where there is good vehicle access and lots of other hunters. I hunt in the places where I think the animals will run to avoid the opening day hunters. Most hunters will stay within a mile or so of a road. A few others will horse pack in five miles, usually more. So it's good to get back in 2 or 3 miles before the sun comes up and hunt the in-between areas.

Guideline #6: Hunt bedding areas at dawn. Elk like to bed down in isolated, gently sloping groves of mixed aspen/evergreens with lots of grass and forbs for food. They can travel a long way for water. Isolated means someplace where it�s difficult for people to access. Find several places like this when you go scouting. Hike in the dark to arrive at an overlook before the sun comes up and wait to see what comes out of the grove.

Guideline #7: Hunt the ridges at midday. Setup overlooking a saddle on a ridge where game trails are concentrated and wait to see what walks by. This takes lots of patience and works best if you have somebody stealth hunting through the dark timber to get the animals moving.

Guideline #8: Hunt the water holes in the afternoon. Find some isolated water source, maybe the highest place where a creek first starts coming out of the ground. Setup concealed from view, with a good field of fire 100 to 200 yards away, at least 3 hours before sunset, and wait to see what comes to drink. Wait until the very last shooting light is gone before going back to camp. I have field dressed a lot of animals in the dark using a flashlight.

Guideline #9: Hunt the hideouts late in the season. Elk know that someone is trying to kill them as soon as the first shot is fired. So they run and hide in the most inaccessible terrain around. Find some cozy little pocket surrounded by the meanest, nastiest country around; a place where it looks like there's no way that an elk could get in there; a place where you would hate to get an animal down because you would hate to have to haul him out. That's where the elk will be and that's where you should be (and where I will be) late in the season.

Guideline #10: Be persistent. You can't catch fish unless you have your bait in the water and you can't find an elk unless you are in the field looking for them. They're not going to walk up and surrender themselves to you. You have to find them. That's why they call it hunting and not killing. Many hunters give up after a couple of unsuccessful days and go home. Be prepared to stay the entire length of the season and to endure whatever fatigue and weather, you may encounter. Hunt an area for several days and if you don't find anything promising, then try a different strategy or different area, but don't give up.

Guideline #11: Be patient. Human beings are noisy, stinky creatures. Our dominant sense is our vision. The elk's best senses are their smell and hearing. Their vision is motion sensitive and they can't see colors. Many young hunters spend lots of time hiking and covering a lot of ground and wonder why they never see any animals. You should spend most of your time sitting quietly and watching. You should hike slowly and quietly and most of your hiking should be in the dark.

Nice, KC, and thank you!

-jeff

Great point. What rifle/load you're using don't mean doodly squat if you can't find the animals.