Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting The .308 Family and Elk....

I recently read a very nice posting by Dogzapper on the .308 and Elk.

I would like to start a discussion on the .308 family and Elk hunting. I think several, including DZ clearly showed that the .308 is a wonderful Elk round. I have also heard that the .358 is a good round for elk as well, but going down is really where the discussion starts.

When I think about bullet weights, velocity, energy and bullet geometry, etc.....you know....the science of our sport, I wonder what is appropriate for elk. Honestly and personally, I think the .24 caliber is just too small for elk, but I have talked to and read many a posting where dozens of fellas have easily killed bulls with the 'old 25-06 and the 257 Bob. My father shot 4 bulls with his 264 WinMag. Of course, many a field hunter, has killed with the 270.

So, I am wondering where opinions lay when considering the 7mm-08 and the 260 Rem for Elk? The reason I ask....I will be outfitting my 17 year old daughter and my 13 year old daughter this summer for a Fall Elk hunt. My 17 year old, has shot her brother's 270's and just hates the recoil.

Do you guys think the 260 Rem would be 'acceptable' Elk medicine, especially if the girl is well trained to keep her shots at 200 yards and 'dead-eye- accuracy?

Go with the 7-08.Much better bullet choices for the 7.

As to the 260, a well placed 140 Partition that started out at 2700 fps would do the deed.

First, congrats on raising a couple young ladies that want to go hunting with their dad.

I agree completely on the .243 for elk � the bullets are too light and don�t deliver enough energy far enough down range. And the best of the best bullets (A-Frame, Trophy Bonded and North Fork, IMHO) are not even available. I�d go with a Sirocco II or maybe a TSX if I went hunting with a .243. But I wouldn�t go there for elk.

The .257 Roberts is not the best choice, but not a horrible one, either. The heaviest bullets are still a bit light for elk to suit me, but my 22� Ruger pushes 120g A-Frames to 2947fps and the 115g TSX to 3013fps using +P brass and hand loads. Recoil is mild (14 foot-pounds) even with the 120g bullets, and it will deliver 1500 foot-pounds of energy out to 250 yards with the A-Frame and 290 yards with the TSX. A 24� .25-06 will reach a bit further without adding excessive weight or recoil. If your daughters shoot well, I would consider a .25.

A .260 Remington will deliver 1500fpe out to 370 yards with a 140g Partition at a cost of 15.6 foot-pounds recoil in a 7.5 pound rifle. A 7mm-08 will reach out to 315 yards under the same conditions. Between the two its hard to go wrong.

First off the 243 works just fine on elk. I know I've done it many times, I've seen it work moretimes than that. Seems to me most of the folks that say it won't , or shouldn't be used on elk, quite frankly lack experience, or flat out ignore what has been done with that cartridge in years past.
Now with that said, I'ld rather see someone carrying a 260 or 7-08, as the recoil is minimal, and good bullets are easy and plentiful.
The 308 itself isn't a hard kicker, and loaded with 150-165 gr bullets of conventional design will take elk quite well.

If someone wanted to hunt something elk-sized and was intimidated by recoil, I've always felt I'd rather download a 308Win in an 8-9lb rifle, rather than drop caliber. A 150gr Partition at 2500fps or a premium 130gr at 2700fps won't bounce off will it? I feel the 308Win is the perfect answer.
Cheers...
Con

My experience with the .243 and elk is secondhand, having seen more elk wounded with a .243 than any other caliber. Largest bull I have ever seen in the wild was putting distance between itself and the young hunter that shot it, and showing no signs of slowing down after a mile. My buddy and I talked to the father of the hunter, who turned out to be using a .243. Just one example.

I have a good friend who used to guide for elk in Colorado and has seen hundreds of elk taken. His rifle was a Savage 99 in .243. He will be the first to tell you, as he has me, that just about anything is a better choice.

There is no escaping the realities of the .243Win. On a good day and with carefully selected loads it will push 1500 foot-pounds of energy out to about 180 yards � most loads fall below that at around 150 yards. The selection of premium bullets in .243 caliber is poor when compared to the .25�s and larger. Scirocco II�s (90g), TSX�s (85g), Accubond (80g) and Partitions (90g and 100g) are all good bullets but they are still lightweights. And there are no .243 Trophy Bonded, A-Frame or North Fork bullets available, just to name a few.

CAN a .243 Win take elk? Sure. So can a .22-250 and a .22LR. In Colorado a .243 Win is the legal minimum for elk but a 140g 6.5mm is a much better starting place, and even that is lighter than I prefer.

Given the other options available the .243 Win is simply not the best choice for elk, which is all I�m saying. Don�t know of anyone that thinks it is.

The min cal in Colorado for big game is 6mm for elk need a min 85gr bullet and have an impact energy (at 100yds) of 1,000 pounds. You can always install a recoil reducer to help tame felt recoil for kids that way you have a better selection of calibers instead of picking a rifle based on low recoil. Rem has a pretty good selection of youth model that would work not sure about the other manufactors. Well good luck.

Whatever caliber you get your girls install a Simm recoil pad on it and they will really appreciate it. And so will you as they will want to shoot more.

Not sure if you hand load, but what I did for my 9yr old was to get very light bullets (what ever caliber you decide) and make up some reduced loads. The recoil is minimal at the range. Make sure you use good ear muffs as the muzzle blast/sound will still be there. When hunting use the full power loads without letting on there is a difference from the range loads. When shooting at an animal, your young hunter won't know the difference.

Two other things that will help.
1. A stock that fits. Get the LOP right.
2. Install a good recoil pad - Pach Decel or Simms.

RH

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My experience with the .243 and elk is secondhand, having seen more elk wounded with a .243 than any other caliber. Largest bull I have ever seen in the wild was putting distance between itself and the young hunter that shot it, and showing no signs of slowing down after a mile. My buddy and I talked to the father of the hunter, who turned out to be using a .243. Just one example.
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Well first we need to figure out which of your statements is true there, its either second hand or not. And just where was this supposed bull supposedly hit? I guess your expereince and mine are totally backwards, on account of some of the nastiest blood trails and the like I have been on were after the belted mag that some intrepid nimrod used didn't work quite like the hype says its supposed to.

No the 243 probably isn't the ideal elk cartridge, but it work anddoesn't need premium bullets, just as none of the non magnum cartridges don't need them.
Wilderness what ever cartridge you end up getting for your girls just please take the time to make sure the stock fits them , so the recoil won't get to be a problem. My pick of the litter would be the 7-08, I don't have any experience with it, but I do the 7x57, and if paper ballistics are to be worhsipped , then the 708 ought to work like a champ on anything that walks this continent.

I personally like 156-160gr. projectiles out of a 6.5mm for most everything. I've only shot one elk with the above combination, but he made it less then 20 yards after the shot and was a large bodied 6x at more then 250 yards. I also find the rifle recoil more pleasent shooting the 160 ~2400fps then I do the 140s closer to 2600, but neither are at all challenging to overcome. I personally prefer the 6.5x55, but see the .260 as the same animal.

I'm an easterner who gets out West every other year to hunt elk. After spending $5000 plus on tags, guide fees, airline tickets and the like, I would not remotely consider anything lighter than a 300 Magnum. Yes, under ideal conditions elk can be taken with lesser calibers right down to the .243 Winchester.

I think any elk caliber discussion begins and ends with the following question;

Do you have enough gun under less than ideal conditions?

Consider:
What if the elk is not broadside?

You are unable to close to less than 300 yards?

For those of you who live out west, you merely hunt another day.

But on the last day of a trip I have so much invested in my personal minimum for elk is the .300 Weatherby Magnum.

And that's what I killed my Montana elk with last November. At 400 yards. Quartering Away.

I could only endorse a 243 on elk if used in an open meadow where one could observe the critter after the shot, but only then with a premium of some sort. The 6mm's don't leave much if any blood and will generally walk off after being hit. I'm not saying a 243 can't be used to knock-off elk but I believe it's, if not unethical, pretty stupid to use one in the timber.

On a friends ranch I watched his 16 year old son shoot a cow at 150 yards with a 100 gr. Hornaday. He hit her broadside through the lungs. She didn't react, but trotted off with another cow. 600 yards later she still hadn't tipped... she was dropped with a 7mm Wby.

The 6.5x55 has a great worldwide reputation and the .260 is basically a ballistic twin. 6.5 mm bullets of good construction and @ moderate velocity are known as great penetrators.

Assuming that you don't have any immediate plans to take them on $5,000 hunts or to bang away at the azz end of any Elk out at 376.72 yds, I can't see any problems with your plan for the 260 as "starter" rifles for your girls.

BTW: I can only imagine how proud you will be when one or the other gets her first.

JimF

A 260 loaded with a 125 grain Partition at 2,950 will do anything a 270 could do loaded with 130 grain factory ammo.
I dont think an elk would know the difference.

That load would be my bottom line.

Yeah, totally agree about the 260. It would be at the bottom rung of my list as a good general purpose elk round. Loaded with a 130 TSX or 125 Partition I believe it'd be a much better round than any 243/6mm. A 7mm-08 would be even better.

Brad those Montana elk must be tuff mofo's. Last elk I saw shot with a 243 the old guy shooting the Ruger 77 loaded with PMC factory loads hit a damn good 6x6 at 210 yds the first shot went in the pocket , the second right beside it, and the 3rd one missed onaccount the bull bit the dirt just as the sear broke. He went 30 yds maybe, the bloodtrail coming from his chest wounds and spouting out of his nose could of been followed by a blind girl in a wheelchair.
Last elk I shot in the timber with a 243 was about 60 yds, hit her in the back of the head, she flipped clear over come down on her back wedged between to jackpines. Had a dickens of a time getting her out of that so I could gut her.
Like I've said before the 243 will work and work well, but there's cartridges that can be used that folks (who just don't know any better) won't bad mouth so darn much and cause doubt in a young shooters mind.

Don't use the 260 unless you have a decent sized freezer and the money to have her elk mounted cause if she holds her shot to 200 yards like you said you is gonna be eatin' some elk. The 260 will work fine. Like others have said use premium bullets. I am partial to the Barnes X bullets myself. If you handload all the more the better to help tame recoil. You can load it down.

SU35 mentioned a load that would be evry effective but I think that given your original goals it is going down the wrong path.

Remember the goal is to make her an effective hunter and above all comfortable with the rifle. (AND) she hates the recoil of a .270. Given that scenario check this out.......

Std. 270 win ballistics would deliver about 18 ft lbs of recoil in an 8 lb rifle.

SU35's suggested load would be very effective, but would still deliver about 14 ft lb in an 8 lb rifle. (keep in mind that many 260's will be lighter than this)

So....I'd suggest a 140 gr loaded to about 2500 fps with a fairly fast powder.

Advantages...................

About 10 ft lbs of recoil in an 8lb rifle
Very mild muzzle blast.
Those torpedolike 140's will pentrate like crazy.
At this velocity, absolutely no need for a premium bullet.
PBR 200-225 depending upon your zero.

No, they won't bounce off at this low velocity.......honest!!..... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

JimF