Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles Bushmaster varmit special

I just purchased a Bushmaster stainless varmit special, 24 in barrel. anyone have any experience with this rifle? I hav'nt shot it yet , looking for a decent moderately priced scope. Any suggestions?

I would venture to say it will be a tack driver, what price range for optic's?

some pretty good prices right here

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth.../1/Leupold_Scopes_AR_22_Conversio#UNREAD

I have 24" V-Match, which is substantively the same rifle (but lighter by .85lbs.).

Accuracy is sub-MOA @ 100yds. with Federal XM193 and handloads, alhough it requires more concentration and trigger control to shoot tight groups with an AR comapred to a bolt-action or single-shot (the triggers are very different, and the twanging of the buffer spring is disconcerting).

Mine wears a Burris BallisticPlex 3x-9x, and I am very happy with the clarity and light transmission of the optics and the repeatability of the adjustments.

George

Sub moa with xm193?

Yep, I agree... NFW really...

The Varminter has an unchromed match barrel and the SS version is supposed to have a better barrel yet. I'm sure it'll shoot good enough.

The V-match is just a chrome lined HBAR barrel, while not bad shooters they won't compare to the varminter, lot for lot.

Why not MOA?

From Federal's web page at Federal XM193 :



This isn't a 'parts bin' gun, guys.

George

Can anyone translate the specification "3-10round groups not to exceed 2.00" mean radius maximum average at 200 yards" into everyday English?

I understand that you shoot three 10-shot groups at 200 yds to determine whether the ammo conforms to the spec. Beyond that it gets a little fuzzy with the mean, maximum and average all thrown together.

Is this correct?
You determine the center of each 10-round group, measure the distance from the center to each of the ten holes, and calculate the mean distance. You then average the mean radius distance of the three groups, and the average has to be less than 2.00" to meet spec.

Or does the "mean" part of "mean radius" mean that one has to measure both the nearest and farthest edge of each bullet hole, and take the mean (average) of the two so that the group is defined by the farthest bullet hole not the average of the distances of the holes from group center?

At any rate, it seems that the spec is at best the rough equivalent of 2 MOA for 10-round groups.

George, i'm not belittling you in this statement, but the reference to the parts bin gun shows you don't know what it takes for accuracy. I can run 193 in my best top of the line Krieger tubed guns and it won't average MOA at 100. It has only to do with the projectile... pull those junk FMJ bullets and substitute a 52 bthp and make sure it has neck tension and concentric(mexican match if you will) and it will average moa and most likely well under moa.

Has all to do with the projectile being junk. Sure I can show you under MOA with FMJ but if you start shooting 10 shot groups with it, instead of 3 or 5.. you'll come to find that somewhere around 7 shots or so out of 10 will be nice with 193 or almost any other FMJ surplus load, but that 2-3-4 of those 10 will NOT hold moa and will ruin the group.

I recall years back trying to be a tightwad... and reloading FMJ... running 3 shot groups to conserve and test the waters.. found one that was all 3 almost touching each other.... went and loaded up 5 more... again under moa anyway..... went and loaded up 50 and shot 5 groups, 10 shots each... and found that the real life average was more likely 1.5 to 1.75 or so inches at 100....

I may be off, but the way I read mean radius is that 2 inch radius demands a 4 inch or less total group diameter at 200 yards.

"mean radious" and MOA are 2 totally different things. Almost like using " and '.

No the V-match is not a parts gun but it ain't gonna turn 2-4 MOA ammo into sub moa ammo.

This will explain MR. scroll on down past the socom barrel and mean radius is explained.
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?p=722382#post722382
this is helpful as well
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=503171

TWR - Thanks - that link's explanation of mean radius was what I was looking for.

The writer at the first link also comments that Hatcher's Notebook noted that mean radius is usually about 1/3 of group diameter (extreme spread). Sorry I wasn't clear, but I think by definition the absolute best a group size (extreme spread) could be would be twice the mean radius, which would be roughly 2 MOA for the M193 spec, BUT it would be rare for the group diameter to be close to 2x mean radius (at the extreme edge of the bell curve if you shot a lot of groups). From the Hatcher's Notebook comment, M193 would be expected to have group sizes (extreme spread) of around 3 MOA absent any info other than the mean radius spec of 2" at 200 yds.

rost495, no problem, I didn't take it personally.

A 'parts bin' gun to me is one that is assembled from bargain bins and parts drawers, in other words, without an eye towards function, but not necessarily optimal performance.

I will admit that I rarely fired XM193 in my V-Match, but both it and my Savage 10FLP shot it well (my Savage shot 62gr. Wolf HP ammo (lacquered steel cases) sub-MOA out to 200yds.).

George

I've heard some reports about MOA XM193 but in the several thousands of rounds I've fired, I've never been lucky enough to find the right lot I guess... grin.

I've heard it too... closest I got was M193 clone from FNM portugal IIRC. Most of that stuff was moa...

Funny thing about ball bullets.. for some reason the lead core 62s have done better than the 55s.. the steel core are most of the time a joke since they can't get the steel core centered perfectly.... but I know of one guy that took 62 lead core and did a weight seperation thing and got some good results.. too much work for me when I could buy bulk 55 soft points or for a bit more sierra 60gn fb hps.... and not have to piddle.

George... really accuracy is in the bullet, much more so than the barrel or gun as a whole. IE you could have a so so gun with a great bullet and almost always end up with better accuracy than the best gun with the worst bullet. So parts bin or not, it really won't typically affect FMJ bulk ammo accuracy for the best or worst..

My wife bought me a Wilson Tactical last Xmas + 2 cases of xm193, the 1st group went 1 1/8". 1 Bushmaster did 1 1/2" and my other slightly more with the same stuff. I only shot one group with each gun. Bought a used Colt upper last week, it did 3 1/2", but I noticed the cleaning patches were going thru easier than the other 3 uppers, and a friend thinks it might be a M16 upper.

Heading out to the range again tomorrow to test 'em again.

M-16's use exactly the same barrel as AR-15's.

Thanks, TWR, wasn't aware of that. Cancelled the range time, too windy to try loads this morning.

I don't think that's quite right. No M-16 has a barrel like my NM AR-15 and especially not like the one on my Match AR-15.

Wilson Tactical does not make or sell AR-15 uppers or rifles, but Wilson Combat does and their barrels are not like the ones on an M16. The UT-15 has a 1:9 twist Wilson match grade fluted barrel. Definitely not your typical M16 barrel.

Their SS-15 has a 1:8 twist Wilson Match grade, hevayweight, stainless steel fluted barrel, it probably has a Wylde or similar chamber.

The Bushmaster Varmint Special has a 24 inch 1:9 twist stainless steel "match tolerance" barrel.

Even the Colt has a 1:9 twist, I believe.

The M-16 has a 1:7 twist, large NATO chamber, chrome-plated, chrome-moly barrel.

" but I noticed the cleaning patches were going thru easier than the other 3 uppers, and a friend thinks it might be a M16 upper."

FTR, Please explain how the chamber and outside dimensions of any barrel of the same caliber will effect how tight a patch goes through.

Colt hasn't produced a 1/9 barrel since before the ban ended. The company split into Colt Defense and Colt MFG, yet Colt MFG hasn't been in production as they're both in the same plant. Colt MFG is to produce Match Target type rifles while Colt Defense produces the military M4's and LE series AR-15's, all on the same machinery with the same people. They've been a little too busy lately to run any MT rifles.

And since you're a stickler for details, FN even uses the same bore size for it's M-16's as Colt, BM, Amalite, Wilson or any other company building 5.56 guns.