Until now..

I checked out the Rage Mechanicals at there web site,
http://www.ragebroadheads.com/
and liked the concept. Then I went to Gander Mnt and picked up a pack, so I could see them for myself. I am impressed with the slip cam, rear deploying blades. It's so simple it's hard to believe that no one thought of it sooner! I bought the 2 blade model, for it's large diameter. I like to punch a big whole. I have been shooting the practice head with my TenPoint Blazer crossbow, and it is nasty accurate. I can only shoot one arrow at the same target at a time or I would just bust them up. (Not the case with my normal 100gr MX3 Muzzy's)
The clincher for me I guess was reading Chuck Adams comments on why he swiched over from fixed blades after all these years (I am sure he's had chances (read "offers") to switch in the past 15 years or so that mechanicals have been gaining popularity.
I have been reading stuff about Chuck since I was a kid, so I guess for me it was like hearing that Jack O'conner had switched to a Rem 700 in .338win mag. Blastphemy, I know! lol
There must be somthing to these things, I will let you know in October .

I like Chuck but the guy has to make a living. It is still a weak design. Slick Tricks for me. I have yet to see a broadhead of any kind perform like the Slick Tricks.

The rocky mt gator mechical had rear deploying blades, the rage is simular with some improvements. I had used the gator with good success on deer and elk but compared to todays heads penetration is lacking. I bought some rage heads last year because of the simlarity but haven't used them for hunting. Like Montana I just can't give up my slick tricks. I guess I'm allways going to be out of step with the elite bowhunters, I go from mech to fixed and they go from fixed to mech. Oh well.

Kent

In my early bowhunting days in R.I., mechanicals were illegal. I used Thunderheads, Razorbacks, Muzzy's and all of them had to be tuned, and I always had two sights: one for field tips, one for broadheads. They did not fly the same. When I started hunting in Connecticut, I started using Spitfire expandables. I've used them probably twenty years. They're legal in R.I. now too. They fly like field points, and don't use those stupid little rubber bands. There is also no fixed blade that will cut a bigger hole. A hundred twenty five grain Spitfire will cut a hole big enough to stick your hand through. I use 85's and have had no problems with them.

Rob

Slick Tricks fly same as my field points. They are 100 times stronger then any mechanical head out there. You want to see a hole look at their webpage of the skinned bear. That hole will do it everytime my friend.

I have been using muzzy 3 blade for years now but I have finally heard enough about the slick tricks and I just ordered a pack of them. I am also very Interested in looking at the wounds Inflicted by the rage Mech. If anyone has a picture of shots taken with the Slicks or The rages please post them. [img][IMG]http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r115/killahog/Octoberbucktagteam002-1.jpg[/img][/img] this is a picture of a buck I shot with a muzzy fixed blade The arrow hit the upper leg bone and broke the leg but could not get past the rib. It took a very well planned bump to get the deer to move under a friend who was set up in my other deer stand to finish the job with a second arrow. this is one of the reasons I am hesitant about going with a mechanical with a 2 inch cut. If a fixed broadhead cannot retain enough energy to drive through the ribs after a shot that was less than perfect would a mechanical do as well or better.

This is a picture of the same buck after it was pushed into a funnel under a buddie waiting in my other stand. He finished the job with a mechanical broadhead The arrow missed the spine but hit the spot where the lungs are connected together. My setup was a 60LB bow using muzzy 100G I was shooting the bow at 55lbs the deer was 35 yards away. The second shot was taken with a 70lb bow using a 125G spitfire the deer was 5 yards away. [img][IMG]http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r115/killahog/Octoberbucktagteam005.jpg[/img][/img]

A bunch of guys at my club bought slick tricks two years ago. After last season, they're back to using Spitfires. Slick tricks are a lot like Matthews bows, lots of advertising, lots of hype. I've taken / seen taken dozens and dozens of deer with Spitfires over the last twenty years. They work. A 100 grain Spitfire cuts an Inch and a Half hole.

I made the switch two years back. Blood trails that would make a crime scene tech queasy. I went with the GR.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47qLegGlYwE

Rob I have taken 3 deer with spitfires and I have only been able to track one of them with a blood trail. All 3 deer were hit in the lungs but the spitfires dident seem to make a very good entrance hole. I recovered all of the deer but Im looking for something that leaves a better blood trail. In fact the deer in my picture above was brought down with a spitfire you are rite they do work.

Slick tricks are zero hype and 100% performance. Show me a mechanical blade after hitting bone. It is useless the slick trick 7 out 10 times will be fine. They are hands down the best broadhead on the market. They make two awesome holes in deer size game. Mechanical broadheads suck.

Rob, I would like to hear what your buddies didn't like about the slick tricks. I know the spitfires can kill elk I've seen it, I've killed 4 elk and 5 deer with mechanicals myself, with my hunting partners taking as many themselves, some with spitfires. I liked mech. because they were accurate and would shoot with my field points, like you I could never get a fixed to shoot exactly with a field. I didn't feel real comfortable about the penetration and lack of blood trails at times, mostly on elk. Most animals were found close by but if they went any distance at all the blood trail was slim or none until they shucked the arrow the same way it went in. With elk one hole can get tricky.

I can understand the comment about hype for the matthews bows, ads everywhere you look and priced at the top of their industry. I know they're good bows, most my friends shoot them. I'm just stubborn enough not to. With slick tricks I guess I'm out of touch, I've never seen an ad for them. I allways figured they were a little company that made one broadhead, and at a low price compared to a spitfire or rage. $25 compared to $30 for the spitfire and $40 for the rage. The only hype I've seen are on forums like this from bowhunters that use them.

What I like about slick tricks is from the first time I put them on they hit exactly with my field tips, no adjusting. Tougher than a mechanical, more penetration, just as accurate and lower price. I shot one into a block wall on a bet that it would blow up, the head penetrated almost fully, was able to remove it and with a little sharpening it was ready to hunt. A friend over shot the target and hit a elk shed we had sitting on top of it, penetrated a 1/3 of the head, couldn't remove that one. As far as cuting surface the rage has 2 in X 2 = 4 in, the spitfire has 1 1/2 in X 3 = 4 1/2 in, the slick trick has 1 1/8 X 4 = 4 1/2 in, all fairly equal. Pick the head you like and go hunting thats what it is all about.

The only animal I've shot with one yet was a mature female lion, not much of a test with a thin skinned animal, but I shot her in the armpit and broke her off shoulder at an upward angle. The arrow traveled at least 30 yds to a brushy hillside, I never found it and it wasn't in the open before the hill. Sorry no photos of the exit wound but the taxi has some sewing to do to fix her up. This year I acually have an antelope and cow elk tag so hopefully more test results to follow.

Kent

All the broadheads out there will kill animals with the right shot placement. Some are a lot better then others at the task. Krp you got that all right.

No matter how a mechanical head opens it takes a force (energy) to get it to deploy. That is a loss of energy however minute its still a loss. Second mechanical means moving parts. This is a weak link and a place for the heads and blades to break.

Slick Tricks fly just like field points. I use the same sight without adjustments for both field points and broad heads. Slick Tricks are one of the stoutest heads made. When I release my arrow I have 100% confidence that it will do the job reguardless of if I hit bone or not. I can't say that with any mechanical head.

Which one of the Slick Tricks do you use? Are they all essentially as good as each other?

I use the magnum 100, the only difference between it and the standard is a 1 1/8 in. cut for the mag a 1 in. cut for the standard, as far as I can tell. The razor and grizz I don't believe are out yet. I will probably try the grizz when it comes out, I don't know how it can be any tougher but it has a 1 1/4 in. cut.

I can respect someone elses loyalty to a piece of equipment. The things we carry with us on some of our fondest memories deserve it. I'm always willing to listen if someone feels a piece of equipment I use is lacking, I just would like examples of why. I'm not promoting slick tricks over any other head, just saying why they work for me. Maybe there's something better out there and I haven't tried it yet.

Kent

I shoot the 125 magnum. I think the new heads will be out before the start of hunting season. I shot Muzzy for as long as I can remember. My son turned me onto slick tricks. He shoots at a pretty big indoor archery place where he lives. He talks with some big names in the business, and that is how he found out about slick tricks. When he sent me the package I was expecting some fancy packaging and a big time archer on the package. To my surprise none of that. I looked at them and said not anything out of the ordiary here what makes them so great? So I screwed them on some arrows and went in the backyard without changing anything on my bow as my son told me. First arrow I plucked the string and it was about 2" out from center at 3 o'clock. Next arrow Was center and the third arrow center. I could not believe it. I had never had a broad head fly like that with zero adjustments. I called my son and ask him why he hadn't sent me them sooner? He said dad they just came out. My first hunting season with them I had a complete pass thru on a 280lb 6 point whitetail in Maine. Another complete pass thru on a black bear that weighted 422lb in Maine. Three complete pass thru's on sitka blacktails. The following year I was elk hunting with my son in Idaho he shot his elk first. I will say it wasn't a complete pass thru but had the elk not dropped right there the arrow would have fallen out. The only part of the arrow still in the elk was from the forward edge of the fletching back so say 5 inches from a complete pass thru. On the elk I shot I hit him in the bottom of the heart up into the lung and into the shoulder blade. He took about 5 steps and dropped. I don't think he ever even knew he was hit. The slick trick was inbedded in the shoulder blade with the point about 1/8 of an inch out the backside. Since I have taken many deer, speed goats, bears, and two Moose. Never a single failure. I will try anything you can offer me that is better but those are big shoes to fill. I really don't see any hype in slick tricks. What I do see is a company that has a great product that works. Instead of them sponsoring big names they took the chance on word of mouth from the everyday hunter. This has saved them money and in return saved us money. I will say I think their gamble proved them just right.

Mathews hype? I don't shoot a Mathews. I shoot a Hoyt. I think Mathews has proven their a top of the line bow and a force to be reckoned with. I know lots of guys that shoot them and love them. There sales records speak for them. Can't hold anything against them.

I like and use Tricks myself. The only design that I've used that's as sturdy is a NAP Nitron, but changing blades on the Nitron's is a real pain.

As Mechanicals go, I like Rocket Steelheads. But I wouldn't use them for game larger than deer myself, or any other mechanical.

killahog,

I'm not sure the story you posted proves that fixed blades are superior to mechanicals...only that shot placement is critical to ethically harvesting game, no matter what's on the end of the arrow.

I don't doubt that fixed blades penetrate better. But obviously, a shoulder shot with even fixed blades isn't a guaranteed kill. Had you hit the deer behind the shoulder, he'd be dead in less than 100 yards, whether fixed blades or not.

As an aside, I've never had any penetration issues with mechanicals when the critter was hit in the appropriate place.

I remember a few years back when the Rocket Steelheads were all the rage (no pun intended). I used them for a couple years with Horrible results. I had to prove to a game warden that I had shot one buck with my bow; when I checked it in it looked like it had been shot with a rifle, becuase the entrace wound was so small. (luckly he was spined, so no tracking involved)
Another time I lost a well punched deer, that left almost no blood trail, in a grown over clearcut.
I see the Slick Tricks are the new Hot lick, I may try them some day, but right now these Rage heads really have my attention. I will report back with kill/wound info and pics here in a couple months. The rubber will meet the road, and we'll see how they do. I have no loyalty to any product so, my observations will be based in fact.
I really like the way the Muzzy mx3 head preforms, but it sucks on a 20" crossbow bolt. It changes the POI, and really falls off after 30 yards. The rage is nasty fast, and accurate in my bow well beyond 40 yards, wich is about as far as I will shoot game at.

[/quote]
I remember a few years back when the Rocket Steelheads were all the rage (no pun intended). I used them for a couple years with Horrible results. [/quote]

I have used them for about 10 years to take at least 50 deer. I never had a single problem with them I could honestly attribute to the head.

I have used them for about 10 years to take at least 50 deer. I never had a single problem with them I could honestly attribute to the head. [/quote]

I still use the 125 steelheads. I think I switched to them around the 2000 season, and I typically shoot 2-4 deer a year with the bow. Never had a problem. Mostly I shoot pretty well and at closish range so shot placement is pretty good, but last year I had one hit a little forward, busted the leg bone and still had a pass through.

Id go to a fixed blade head if I were going to shoot something bigger than a deer, but on deer I figure its shot placement, shot placement and shot placement thats important.

I did muzzys for a number of years and it was a good head but it required a bit better tuning than does the mechanical heads. Someday I may pick up a few slick tricks ad see how they shoot.

T'Man, I'm glad you are happy with the results you are getting. I was not. I will say this more than half of the preformance you get is hitting the right spot, and in that regard the Steal heads are very good, beucase they do shoot well. I have used many different products over the last decade or so, and taken a lot of animals (not going to get into numbers, because I don't want this to sound like a pissing contest) my experience with the Rocket stealheads, though more limited than your own, did not produce the results I have seen with other products, ie muzzy's, spitfires, etc. So I chose to move on.
I asure you though my experience is not that of a "one deer wonder"

I would like to hear how many deer were lost . I work for a outfitter Milk River and i see lots of deer killed with all kinds Mechanical and fixed . I can say if you take a broadside shot no 1/4ing shots and no bone nothing works better fixed we do not loose deer . We had to ban mechanical heads and if you have to shoot them it is one and done so if you wound a deer that is your deer. The one and done has been good because it has stoped the long pokes for people who think they can shoot 50 and 60 yrds at a deer that is not fav and even worse with mechanicals they take to much energy on marginal 1/4ing shots .

JMO

MTHunter,

It wasn't clear to me "who" your post was directed toward. If it was me and my experience with the Rocket Mechanical, the answer is One deer lost (one too many for me), my main complaint was the small entry and exit wounds that I saw. Maybe the six I had were lemons, dunno.
I think I will get me a pack of those slick tricks just to see how they shoot. Even if I don't use them this fall, I can still get some data on how they will shoot in my set up. The 85gr look kinda interesting, but a 1" cutting dia. leaves me a little nervous.

Mark, there is no difference between a 1" 4 blade and a 2" 2 blade in cutting surface, don't sweat it. I messed up with my math in my post above, was typeing and thinking at the same time, never a good thing for me. Since everyone was polite and didn't call me a dummy I'll say it, YOU DUMMY. A 2 blade 2 " is 1" each way = 2", a 3 blade 1 1/2" is 3/4" each way = 2 1/4", a 4 blade 1 1/8" is 7/16" each way = 2 1/4", a 4 blade 1" is 1/2" each way = 2".

In the 80's we had slow bows and fixed heads, I remember when a 200 fps bow was fast. I used wasp and thunderheads back then. The combo of a slower bow, heavy aluminum arrows and heavy fixed blade head produced accuracy, KE, and we killed animals with it.

In the 90's the bows got faster and faster,and releases became popular. Add the old arrow and head to that combo and accuracy became an issue. Mostly it was trying to have your broadhead hit with your fieldtip. On a two week elk hunt thats important, if you're in camp at midday you want to shoot your bow to keep in form. Not much confidence building if your broadheads are in the bull but your fieldtips aren't. I believe mechanicals became popular because of this, it seemed shooting a mech on a lighter arrow at faster speeds had about the same results as the older setup on game, but shot flatter. We killed animals with it.

Today we have super fast bows, mechanicals that are tougher, fixed heads that are accurate, got to love it. Like everything else in life it's not one size fits all and thats great. I set up for elk and hunt everything with that combo. I've choosen the slick trick, but I'm sure there are other options that would work.

This has been a really good civil discussion.

Kent

Kent,

Excellent post, good info! And I agree this has been a civil discussion. Nice for a change, to have a discussion and not a series of commercials for this product or that. Thats why I have never commented on a product I have not used. I have not used the Slick Tricks (though at least a test session is in the near future), so I have no opinion good or bad.

I lost a deer in 1983 shooting a 125g 4 blade satalite. I think I hit her in the shoulder and it was misting rain... looked for hours till way after dark and most of the next day..just lost the blood trail after about 100 yds and walking grid pattern the next day didn't help. I did find the arrow a few years later about 400-500 yds away, bent and the blades broken off the broad head.

I lost another around 1998 or so. Muzzy head. 20 yd shot. I had a deflection from a small branch and the arrow hit the deer in the side of the snout. He ran off and stopped about 80 yds from my stand (which where I hunt was a miracle I could see him) The arrow was sticking out of the side of his head, looked like it had penatrated less than a few inches. I watched him for a few minutes to see if he was going to go down and he walked out of my view. Looked for about 8 hours (I shot at him at maybe 7:30am) and didn't find anything except one single drop of blood. I often second guess not flinging a second arrow at him at the long range. It would have been just a fling and a prayer as I have no idea how to hold at 80 yds.

I have cleanly missed a couple of deer over the years (some for reasons I understand and one I can't( of course he was a big one . I have also had a few where I wish that I did a better job of shooting but recovered then just fine. Largely I credit my success to a fair amount of practice and that my typical shots are 12-20 yds or so. Its very rare that I could ever see a deer more than 20-25 yds from one of my stands.

One thing I know for sure if you bow hunt long enough it will happen to everyone once. If not your either lucky or lying

megalomaniac I agree with you that the shot experience I had does not prove that fixed are any better than Mechanical. the point I was trying to make is that when a shot goes bad like the one I made that having a mechanical broad head that is going to absorb some of the kinetic energy is going to leave you with an arrow with less energy after The blades are deployed. The fact is that if the fixed blade (muzzy) I was shooting could not drive thru the rib after breaking thru the leg bone a mech could not possibly do any better.

Well good or bad mechanicals if you shoot them good luck shoot strait and have fun post pics this fall of your buck . I my self would shoot fix montec steelforce muzzy shoot what you shoot and shoot it well. good luck MTHunter

I am still in love with and always will be with the 90 grain muzzy 4 blade. They are a great Broadhead and for me and my bow, they hit the same spot as a 100 grain fieldtip. Not much tuning or anything needed really.
But I too have made the switch to the Rage broadheads. Not because they are better, but because of the hype and the need for me to try them so I can further educate myself with new archery gear. We'll see how they work this year.

My experience with mech. Heads has been limited. I wounded a deer that the arrow hit and bounced out of it. I have taken and helped friends take javelina with Mechs. They do a job on the game. Where they fail is the after the hit part. Most people like pass thru shots and for tracking reasons they are great if the wound channel is big enough. However if there is not a pass thru shot, you want an arrow to cut and slice every step that animal takes. Mechanicals do not do this. THey hit, and because the blades deploy, if the arrow does not go thru, it will slip out with the blades closing. If they go thru, they make a mess.
My suggestion for the next Mechanical broadhead maker is this. Find a way that the blades will lock once they are fully deployed so they cannot close. They will never cut and slice and dice like a fixed head once inside, but at least they will stay locked and prevent that head from slipping out and still possibly do some cutting once inside.

Fixed heads are great, they knock the crap out of things and for the most part handle more punishment than a fixed head. If they don't go thru, they stay inside and cut the crap out of the animal making a better blood trail.
They are harder to tune at times and at times don't shoot like a fieldtip. For some people especially beginners this is tough. That is really all that is bad with Fixed heads.

Pro's and con's, they are about equal, but if you ask me, I would rather shoot an elk with a fixed head than a mechanical head. Get rage to add a lock to those blades after they deploy and maybe I'll change my mind. Tobyjoetruby almost has me convinced after reading his experience with clients shooting the rage.
Here is the link:
https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...&topic=0&Search=true#Post1712420

But I'll draw a conclusion on these rage heads once I get to poke something with them.

Kique

Anyone(and this is not directed at anyone specific) that cannot get a bow tuned with a fixed head on it has serious bow issues or does not know what they are doing. Using a mechanical for that reason is a weak reason.

Granted I dont' like em at all. I still find nothing better than Black Diamonds or Snuffers, but I've got my fair share of Muzzy and still haven't made time to order the sliktriks...

We used mechanicals for 2 years. off and on they were great and then sucked bad.... The final straws were taking a raking shot on a really nice 8, and all it did was slide down the hide... Shooting a fox and about cutting it in half, and 30 min later a doe where it never opened but I screwed the shot and luckily hit the spine. Thinking the bone was an issue, I shot a cull 6 a week later. Double lung, perfect shot on an older bigger deer. Appx 12 yard shot. Buck ran, and lost arrow and I knew right away I should have had a pass through but it wasn't. Appx 10am. I went later and looked. VERY little blood and found the head end of the arrow, blades still closed. I did a methodic almost ALL DAY grid search. Knowing well the buck was dead somewhere. more than likely in brush having laid up and died in a thicket. No trail. I started in around 130 to look seriously after i'd lost the blood that morning. At literally dark thirty I found him balled up in cedars. I was lucky... That was appx 9 hours after the shot.

Nope, don't care if they are the best thing since sliced bread. Bad taste in my mouth.

And since fixed blades are tuneable. Its a non issue.

Jeff

Exactly Jeff.

I agree, tuning should not be an issue. At the same time, I can believe it could. There are a ton of weird people out there. I remember a few years ago, one of my clients showed up to camp with a new rifle, tags still on it. It was a little 243 wsm with a scope. Never shot, never out of the box as far as I am concerned. We wasted a day shooting and sighting in the rifle. Before it was over, we made the decision we needed to be as close as possible, anything farther than 100 yards was outta the question.
That being said and the points I have made, I can see how people would rather shoot mechs than to tune fixed heads, which we all know is no real issue.

Like most of you on here, I am hooked on fixed heads, the vortex put a bad taste in my mouth like the mechs Jeff had. In any event, I owe it to myself to try these rage heads out and see what they are made of. And if all they work for is Javelina, oh well at least I know I can use them for that.
I still have my Muzzy 4 blade 90 grain ready to go in the event that the Rage fail. But after what I have read and seen, I am not sure that will happen. If they do, then they'll (rage) be my Javelina heads.

thanks for the experience sharing Jeff. Can you tell us what heads you used or PM me the name soI can stay far away from the ones you used. Hopefully they weren't the Rage I am about to use.

Kique

I've shot Rocket steelheads for a few years (on deer) without an issue but I don't take raking or shoulder (bone) shots. They work well and I've always had pass throughs.

But...I'm one of those guys that always tinkers with things so I dedcided to try Slick Tricks last week. The Slick Tricks were dead on to 40 yards. I don't know which head I'll be taking this fall for deer but I know what I'll be using if I ever go for elk.

To me this is another Ford/Chevy or Mathew's/Bowtech arguement. They both have their limitations and advantages but when used properly, they work well.

RH

There is nothing as satisfying as shooting a broadhead into your target, and following it up with field points tightly grouped around it. (In my case, they are Muzzy MX3's).

I use fixed blades, partly because some areas I intend to hunt either require or highly recommend them over mechanicals, but also because I know my bow is properly tuned, enough so that point of impact with broadhead and field point are exactly the same.

The biggest drawback I see to fixed blades is one of safety- you always have to be conscious of carrying several razor-sharp blades on the end of that arrow, which can easily and quickly cut anything they come in contact with, including bowstrings and human flesh.

I've got no one in my pocket on this... I guess its why I always wanted to do a tv type show or magazine/paper but just could not...

They were all variations of Wasp products, jackhammer sticks in my head.

After seeing my wife hit a 350plus pound boar hog in the heart with 2016s and about 52 pounds of weight, and having it totally penetrate one shield and the heart and ribs and just a pin prick hole on the other shield, those Zwickey good and filed sharp, just continue to impress me with penetration. But you have to sharpen, and tune or shoot each one and sometimes change inserts etc... and they are big enough that they wind plane....

I just watched a deal on tuning tips to bheads.... I mean I tune for broadhead perfect flight, still the old way, through paper. And if I'm anal, I either sight in all year for field tips and rezero for broadheads shortly before season. Or used to mess with arrow weights and tip weights and could usually find a set to match, IE 2117 and Zwickey and 2219 and tips....

Aw shucks, fixed blades are so boring...

Seriously???

You guys are watching too much TV. Let me guess, Drury told you this was the balls? You're probably wearing their boots and sitting in a tree with some kinda BS real tree camo on while jacking off to Tiffany Lakosky... No doubt douced with the latest and greatest scent killer.

Do what you will, but physics is physics. Mechanical advantage still means something.

It's kinda nice how a guy can stumble upon a thread like this every five years and still see that the same BS question out there. Makes me feel like I haven't missed anything.

Do some homework.

Less is more.

Kill two dozen deer with the SAME (I don't mean the same brand, I mean literally the SAME broadhead) blade and then you're on to something. Kill, run over stone, repeat.

Of course, there's no money in that. Why in the heck would a manufacturer produce a product that can be reused? Why? BC it works.

NimrodRx What broadhead did you use to kill 2 dozen deer That broadhead was a very good investment.

hell any good fixed blade would take on 2 dozen deer if it didn't get lost. I know I had Zwickeys take on well over 10 hogs, but unfortunately at the slow rate I killed deer, I just don't recall on them.

I know the snuffer has the same results. Generally what kills the heads for us was impact with rocks ruining the tip ends so that you'd have to file a new point on and didn't want to risk that to a deer.

Jeff

Rob

Thats some funny stuff.. slick trick doesnt advertise at all, their customers do, your buddies obviously didnt give the tricks enough of a test. Hands down the best head out there, accurate, tough, and dependable, plus they punch a big enough hole that Stevie Wonder could track

Speaking of reusing broadheads over and over, I had a G5 Montec that took 5 deer before it gave up the ghost, see the last one I shot it blew through (which they normally did) and hit a rock on the other side bending one of the blades....kinda ticked me off! now I gotta start over.

I've had the G5 on the list for some time now, but with such a reserve of Zwickey/Snuffer and Muzzy... no need to try them or slik triks... those are the 2 on the list though if it gets that far...

As for durable, I can't recall ever hitting and animal that ruined a solid fixed blade, its always what it hit on the way out... Muzzy... I"ve seen those snap a blade on a shoulder, but didn't fail... Wife had 2 muzzy burried to the hilt in oak trees after pass throughs... managed to get each out and reuse... more so than the boulder she smacked after a pass through....

Jeff

I haven't kept track of what broad heads I have reused I guess I should start. The G5 looks like it would hold up under that repeated use.

Magnus.

Sorry for being so crude before. Just got a little sideways after a cpl cocktails on a weekend.

The beautiful thing is the warranty. I don't know how they do it. I have used it three times now.

First time. Pass through into a rock. Knurled the tip so that I couldn't sharpen it straight. Sent them the blade, they sent me a complete BH back.

Second time. Shot at a ferrule cat and just missed. Burried it into a barn door and totally F'd it up gettin it out. Sent it back, new BH, no questions asked.

Third time. Shot my biggest bow kill buck ever. Bent the bleeder blade on the rib on the way out. Mind you there was nothing wrong with the BH. Killed a doe and that buck within about 2 mins that morning. Sent them some pics of the day with a recount of the hunt and the bent bleeder blade. Had a hat and two new BHs a week later. Mind you, all I needed was the bleeder blade.

I have not shot a field tip for four years now. I hunt with BHs and practice with them exclusively. And I practice a lot. Got a Sept 20 elk hunt coming up and have shot the exact same (I'm not talking the same brand, I mean litterally the same arrow BH) arrow/BH at least 1000 times that I plan to kill a bull with. In another few weeks, I will sharpen it without removing it from the shaft and put it in my hunting quiver.

Ya wanna talk about confidence. That shaft/BH has killed 8 WTs and drilled a rediculous amount of dots in the back yard. Once I run it over the stones, she's as good as new and will be the first arrow/BH in the quiver.

Couldn't imagine shooting a BH/arrow combo for the first time on a hunt. I don't care if they're all the same brand. Unless I have tested that match up before, forget about it...

WTs are easy to kill. If you're only killing a cpl a year, I suppose splasing out on these pricy mechs is NBD. When you start talking about killing 8-12 deer a year... I want to reuse my BHs.

My son is just starting out and shooting a 40 pound Browning Micro Adrenaline. I chose the Magnus Stinger 4 blade for him. I started looking at them close, and bought 2 packs for myself. Almost bought the Buzzcuts, but thought the Stingers were too perfect.

Nimrod, are you using something like a Lansky system to sharpen them, or just using a bench stone?

Sakoluvr, you're a man after my own heart. Got a sweet spot for Sakos, but that's another story.

When my sons can finally pull back a bow, they too will have the Stinger you speak of.

Forgo the buzzcut. Fred Bear disagreed, but with all due respect (and not enough can be conveyed), I have found nothing to substantiate the beney of a serrated edge. Quite the contrary.

Yes, I do like the Lansky. It allows me to put a "relief" on the head. Use the higher grit to create a working surface, then drop the angle and grit by 10 degree to creat a wicked razor edge. A leather belt works good as a strop to take off the curl.

Again, I have nothing against mechs. They will certainly kill deer deader than dead with today's rigs. Deer are light thin skinned animals.

MontanaCreekHunter I have a pack of the new slick trick magnum in 100 grain and I cant wait to try them on a deer. Do you happened to have any pictures of the wounds your slicks Inflected on deer.

My son has some pictures. They are film not digital. I don't have or think I have any of the hole just posing pictures really. I'll try to see what he has.

Here's the ENTRANCE HOLE made by a 100 gr. Rocky Mountain Snyper 2 blade Mech. on a small buck.

They don't get much better than this boys.........

To me, your pic shows the "best case" scenario for mechanical broadheads... no bone contact, thin skinned critter. "While it don't get better than this" with regard to your shot location and result, even deer "do get much bigger than that" in certain parts of the country and even arrows shot with the best intentions, form, and settings can stray from your picture of ideal. From this reasoning, I don't see an evident advantage offered by a mechanical versus those of the fixed variety.

Also, having put larger and thicker skinned game in the freezer with stick and string, my observations of the strain placed on the broadhead from the anatomical makeup of these critters have convinced me that a robust, fixed blade construction is the best design in harvesting bigger/thicker critters. No doubt this is why fixed blade broadheads are often required by outfitters for certain types of game. YMMV.

I am a big fan of Rocket Steelheads, but this year I am gearing up with Magnus Stingers with the bleeder blade. I originally bought them for my son's low poundage bow, but after messing with them, I decided to try them. They are very well made, reasonably priced, come with a replacement guarantee and can be touched up to a wicked sharp edge. Oh yeah, they fly like darts out of both of our bows.

I was a little put off because they look like the old Bear Razorheads (always had a tough time making them fly). These are nothing like the Bear heads, and the blades are removable.

I am convinced they will split a shoulder blade on a Whitetail with ease, and still penetrate to where it counts.

Over the years I have found that although fixed bladed broadheads are very effective killers, they don't always produce a sufficient amount of blood to ensure a rapid recovery of the game animal.

My experience with high speed compound bows and fixed bladed broadheads is that they often pass through the animal so quickly that the wound channel they produce does not begin to bleed very rapidly.

Although the animal may be mortally wounded and only travel a hundred yards or less before expiring, unless the shooter can get a good visual fix on the animal, he may be in for a time consuming search before a recovery is made.

I hunt in very thick cover where visibility is often 30 yards or less.

Consequently, I must use a broadhead that consistently produces the largest wound channel and/or blood trail possible.

I have shot quite a few deer with fixed bladed broadheads (i.e. Thunderheads, Muzzey's etc.) and on occasion I have gotten massive blood trails with them.

But as a general rule, I haven't been able to rely on them to consistently produce a blood trail that is sufficient to ensure the rapid recovery of a downed animal in thick cover.

Fixed bladed broadheads have a proven track record (especially on the "bigger/thicker critters" that you referred to) and because of their superior penetrating capability they may also allow a bowhunter to achieve a higher recovery rate on marginally hit game animals.

However (by design) fixed blades will not produce wound channels as large as some mechanicals and if that is an important criteria for the hunter, he should probably avoid using them.

JMHO

Good luck to all this year......

nemesis- I disagree with you 100%. I have been bowhunting for over 40 years. I have seen fads come and go. I tried open on impacts. I have shot Muzzy's for many years, and now shoot slick tricks. I hunt in very thick woods and rainforest. Fixed blades make very good holes, and pass thru shoots bleed animals very well. I have had four animals that were hard to find. 3 killed with open on impact heads. 1 with a fixed blade. No matter the brands you choose fixed blades are head and shoulders above open on impact heads. That is in a perfect world were the open on impacts work as designed to. With a perfect shot placement. Once bone is added into it the open on impacts are at best a weak field point. I don't think anyone is saying they won't kill because they will. They just don't kill as well as fixed heads do. Also you say that fixed blades with high speeds cause pass thru's actually there is less resisitance with open on impacts because there is less surface area. Your say that a fixed head can not by design have the cutting diameter that an open on impact can proves my point even more that they are junk. Cutting diameter is the largest space between the two farthest blades. So lets assume we are shooting a 1-1/8" fixed blade and a 1-1/8" open on impact. By design the open on impacts are supposed to deploy the blades instantly so at best the entery will be a little bigger for the first 1/2" to 1" from there to exit it will be the same size hole. Wound channel will be the same. Bleeding will be the same. I don't buy your theory for one second. Again this is provided that no bone is hit. Once bone is added to the picture your open on impacts really take a dive and fast. I have shot many different fix blade heads over the years and bleeding an animal was never an issue with a single one of them. The issue I have with open on impacts are they are by design weak. When they hit bone they are done. Yes you may get lucky and still get the kill. I try to eliminate luck from my hunting by using skill, good products, and sound hunting tactics. The only luck I like is that big buck coming by when I am in my stand.

Razkul99 I agree with you 100%.

Sorry my friend we're just gonna have to disagree on this one.

As far as wound channel size goes, Rocky Mt. Snypers and NAP Spitfires will consistently outperform fixed blades.

Although I prefer the slide action design of the Rocky Mt. Snyper and Rage mechs., Grim Reaper produced a video recently that kinda highlights what I'm trying to say:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ugZoXpCf28




On several occasions I have had Snypers pass completely throgh the scapula of a whitetail.




Not my theory at all:

http://www.rockymtbroadheads.com/broadhead_snyper.html


Hey, I'm just offering an different opinion here.

Everyone has different experiences in the woods that they use to form their opinions with.

I have killed about 30 whitetails and a whole bunch of wild boar and turkeys with Rocky Mt. Snyper 2 bladed mechs. and found that they perform exactly as advertised.

Rarely, if ever, will an animal make it beyond sight of my treestand and when they do, they leave a blood trail that is easy to follow.

JMHO

If you want to try a really crappy broadhead try the Pucketts Bloodtrailers, they are the reason alone why I dont trust mechanicals!
See back then they also were the "rage", oh we heard how great they shot, just like a field tips and what awesome blood trails they leave but after several of us using them, and admittantly hitting bone on occasion we found they performed miserably.
I went back to the fixed blades and havent had an issue since.

Hey Tom,

Puckett Bloodtrailers were notoriously bad mechs and have been replaced with new designs that are a vast improvement.

Perhaps you should take another look.........

Nooooooo thank you! I would much rather stick with a sure thing than experiment with something that "might" work.
I already went down the mechanical isle and surely wont do it again.....even if they are supposed to be all that.

Tom the difference here is you and I can admit that not every shot is smack thru the heart/lungs. I am with you there is no reason at all for me to use a mechanical head. To many things that can go wrong and to many weak points for them to break. I think after 40+ years bowhunting I have found what works. Nemesis you have killed 30 deer. I have taken 30 deer in the past two years. I have harvested 13 black bears, 7 Elk, 5 speed goats, 2 sheep, 5 mtn goats, 1 mtn lion, and I have lost count of coyotes in my 40+ years bowhunting. All taken by fixed heads. All have bleed very well and if you couldn't find them then you don't need to be out hunting. One of the archery shops I shop at has a 2X10 with holes drilled in it. They then place all the mechanical heads on it that have failed or been destroyed after hitting bone. I maybe wrong but I do believe they have at least one of every brand on that board. I don't know how old you are but there was once this mechanical head "Punch Cutters" they were supposed to be the perfect head. I had one fail on a fox. Just imagine had I used it on a deer. If mechanicals work for you and you are happy that is great. Myself I find no need for them at all. My slick Tricks have never failed me and I have 100% confidence in them.

Montana, although I don't keep track, the thirty deer I mentioned were taken after I switched to mechs.

Don't know how many with fixed, but it was a whole bunch.





Aw.. c'mon man that's kind of a cheap shot don't cha think?

You know every blood trail is unique and some require a lot more skill and experience to follow than others.....what are you talking that kind of smack for?

Although I don't have any problem going there if you want..... can we try to keep this discussion civil?




Punchcutters were another early design mechanical that apparently didn't perform well.

As I said to Tom, the new designs have been vastly improved.

Gotta try to compare apples and apples here my friend......

Ya know those fixed blade broadheads they used in the Stone Age were probably not very effective either.




Well, at least we are in full agreement here.

I know (and have hunted) with a lot of guys that swear by fixed blades and they (like yourself) are very successful with them.

I just wanted to throw in my two cents worth on behalf of mechanicals and try to back up my opinion with some real life experience, that's all.



By the way, I killed my first deer with a White Wing recurve and a homemade wooden arrow with a Zwickey fixed blade on the front of it in 1956, so I think both of us have probably seen more moons than we care to remember huh?

Good luck........

No cheap shots. Just calling it like I see it. Anything with moving parts has the potential to fail. I have shot new mechanicals. My son sends me all kinds of things to try. He feels if it works in AK it will work anywhere. I have to agree with him on that. If you think blood trials are hard at times try it in a rainforest like SE AK. With the new fixed blade heads that fly true I really don't see a use for mechanicals. I don't buy your wound channel theory. So if you can give me something else to back up mechanicals that would be great and I may say that is a good reason. But I really doubt that. Mechanicals are to me a band aid. Allow me to ask you one question. Would you be willing and comfortable shooting a Cape Buffalo at 30 yards with your favorite mechanical head? I would have no problem with doing it with a Slick Trick. If you can't answer yes then that proves my point. Weak design and a band aid.

AK Dept of Fish and Game still outlaws mechanicals on big-biggame. With nothing to gain or lose, that regulation is about as inpartial as it gets. (I have yet to find the fixed blade types all that hard to tune.) Make your choice (as long as it is legal), and only use the best tool for the job.

It's not a theory.....that's why I put that picture of the buck with the huge entrance hole in my earlier post.

That was just one of many!

Ask anyone who has killed deer with a Snyper, Rage or Spitfire and they will tell you themselves about the massive tissue damage that they produce.

Have you ever seen a fixed blade (unless it was a severely angled entrance wound) produce a hole like that?

And mechs. do it time after time!!




No I wouldn't shoot a Cape Buffalo with a mech. for the same reason I wouldn't shoot it with a 130gr. bullet from a 270.

While the 130gr. 270 bullet (like the properly designed mechanical broadhead) is devastating on a whitetail, it is not designed for Cape Buffalo.

Let me ask you a question, if you had to stop a man at close range, would you prefer a solid jacketed bullet or one of the newly designed hollow points?

It has long been understood that the most effective bullet (or broadhead) is one that dispenses most of it's kinetic energy IN THE TARGET and not in the backstop or beyond.

I like to find my arrows laying on top of the ground after passing through a deer's vitals rather than having to pull them out of the ground with both hands.

All other things being equal, fixed blades will probably out penetrate the average mech. but by the same token, a full metal jacketed bullet will also out penetrate a soft nose or a hollow point, but we don't use them to hunt with do we?

So what you are saying is you don't have confidence in your "wonderful hugh entrence hole mechanicals" on Cape Buffalo? As Uncas said use the best tool for the job. If it is good for Cape Buffalo then it has got to be able to do a good job on lesser game. Also I wouldn't call that picture a big gapping hole more like a fillet, that is a slice compared to the big gapping holes slick tricks will make. And again you state tissue damage, now lets talk about when you hit more then just tissue? Look guides have said it, some states say it, and I am saying it. I think that its great you like them and if that is what you want to use then go for it. But don't try to give me your line of BS that they bleed deer better or that they cause more tissue damage. Last but not least a bullet and an arrow are not the same. So to comapre them is just foolish. An arrow does not do what a bullet does. We rely on our arrows to cut and bleed our game. A bullet does that and also creates shock and expansion to destroy tissue. So we rely on kinetic energy for penetration and I myself want my arrow to exit the animal as often as possible.

Okey doke, I will bite...

Bullets, by design, kill by delivering hydrostatic shock to a target whereas arrows, by design, kill by causing hemorraging. This generalization is no doubt why you believe that a mechanical broadhead offers a better a solution in harvesting game.

Conversely, I believe that any potential improvement to the hunter's tracking/blood trailing for game recovery comes at too great an expense/risk to the overall potential lethality of a given arrow. After all, exterior/surface holes mean nothing if the broadhead does not penetrate the targets vitals.

In an effort better understand the principles associated with arrows and broadheads, here are two well-written and widely accepted articles that I believe are worth a read:

Dr. Ashby's Report

Spinks Report on Arrow Penetration

After reading these, it should be evident that a bowhunter's primary objective is to deliver enough momentum to sufficiently penetrate the vitals of a desired target regardless of the medium encountered. If the selection of any piece of archery equipment i.e. arrow, broadhead, or bow compromises/reduces this ability, the choice is less "ideal" and ultimately, less "lethal" by this reasoning.

Montana,

I've made my case for mechanical broadheads in as many ways that I know how and for some reason you simply refuse to accept it.

Do you think I'm lying to you when I tell you my friends and I shoot a large number of game animals each year with mechs. and have found that they not only kill quickly, but they also produce the copious blood trails necessary for the rapid recovery of marginally hit animals?

I have never said that any of your statements are BS, so what's up with that?

Please, show a little courtesy here will ya?

This whole discussion centers around the fact that you believe that because fixed bladed broadheads penetrate well, it necessarily follows that they kill more effectively and I strongly disagree.

There are many studies out there that clearly show that penetration is not sole factor involved in production of wound trauma and resultant blood loss in game animals and if you choose to ignore this information then I don't think this discussion can continue.

Based on my experience, if I had to choose a single broadhead to a shoot deer or similar sized game animal at 30 yards, it would be a mechanical.

Obviously you don't agree and that's your prerogative.

I made my case and you made yours.

As Bill O'Reilly say's I guess we have to "let the folks decide."

Good huntin'.........

Nenesis,

Your sound like you have something at stake in the agrument? Your are right I will not agree with you on this at all. There is reason that guides perfer fixed blades, there are reasons why some states do not allow mechanicals, there are reasons that many others also feel mechanicals just are not what they are cracked up to be. Like I said they are a band aid. I have read more articals stating facts that fixed blades are better. I have many years in the field using products. I have seen what works and what works well. I have never had a problem killing anything from fox to moose with fixed blades. They have all bleed, and the wound channel on all of them was perfect, looked like someone went in there with a delli slicer. I have never had a fixed blade fail to do its job for me. Back years ago when I was using some of the early WASP, and Muzzy's yeah they broke on impact of bone but this is not the case anymore or if so rearly now. I have NEVER had a slick trick fail in anyway at all. I can honestly not say that about mechanicals. I have had failures with them.

I have absoulutely NOTHING at stake here, my friend....believe me.

Good post though.

You said your piece and I said mine.

I guess that's what these forums are all about ain't it?

Best of luck......